Thread: Truck company riding positions
01-03-2005, 11:14 PM #1
Truck company riding positions
First let me say that I did search the forums for this and didn't find what I was looking for. What I am looking for is information on riding positions and tool assignments for a 4 person truck company. The only one I found was a 6 position FDNY set-up. We run with an officer, driver and 2 firefighters. Full truck company complement of equipment, 100' mid-mount tower ladder. We do work as a truck company, not just support.
Thanks for your help.Captain/EMT-P
01-03-2005, 11:45 PM #2
try kentland33.com, i know they have for both 4 adn 6 man positions.
for 4 man, i think the breakdown is as follows:
for 6 man, I think it goes like this
Driver/Vent Team leader
Officer/Search Team leader
Driver's Side front- Roof vent
Driver's side rear - horizontal vent
Officer's side front - irons
officer's side rear - can/hook
but then again, some of the true truckies here would be more knowledgeable on this subject.If my basic HazMat training has taught me nothing else, it's that if you see a glowing green monkey running away from something, follow that monkey!
01-03-2005, 11:45 PM #3
We just started riding positions on our engines. We do not have a ladder truck but our 2nd or 3rd engine in acts as a truck company would.
I can give you a copy of what I have and you can customize it for truck company operations??? I'm sure you will get better responses here in a little bit.Jason Knecht
Altoona Fire Dept.
IACOJ - Director of Cheese and Whine
EAT CHEESE OR DIE!!
01-03-2005, 11:56 PM #4
- Join Date
- Dec 2003
We run 4 man trucks here. There maybe minor differences from station to station but over all it's pretty standard. My crew runs it like this: Officer and right side FF take the TIC, TNT or flathead axe with a halligan and a pike pole to perform intial interior search and investigation. Driver and left side FF handle exterior ops - ladders, PPV's, utilities, scene lighting, may also assist with forcible entry if needed. After the initial sweep we usually join up with the left side FF to perform further salvage overhaul etc.
On a SFD we usually run 3 engines/1 truck/1 DC. Larger structures will get a 4/2/1 response. Hope this helps. -46
Last edited by SAFD46Truck; 01-04-2005 at 12:31 AM.
01-04-2005, 12:26 AM #5
- Join Date
- May 1999
- Here, There, Everywhere
Here are some suggestions on what to do...
Determine the most basic categories of structures in your city and group them together. For example in NYC we have Tenements (MDs in general), Brownstones & Row Frames, PDs, High-Rise Commercial, High-Rise Residential, Taxpayers.
Perhaps you for your city might have: Highrise residential, PDs, Apartments, Townhouses, Taxpayers(stripmalls).
Tool, assignment, postions & duties all vary as to what occupancy you will be arriving at. Once you have that you can begin assigning tools and such.
You should ask yourself, do we want our officer to suppervise or to really be another one of the men. He can't really suppervise if he has tools and assignments, but you might not have a choice.
Perhaps, First take the FDNY assingments and figure out which roles that your 4 man rig can handle. Perhaps Drop the Roof and OV roles, or perhaps drop the officer and Roof. You have to talior it to your area, however all the duties of the Truck need to be done, for you it might require a 2nd Due Truck or Engine to complete some 1st Due duties.
Basicly you need to line out the objectives/tasks that need to be completed at every fire for the 1st& 2nd Due Truck.
-Search for Fire and victims
-Vent, Enter, Search,
-Vent opposite hoseline,
-Vent roof(structure dependent)
Also there is a guy on the forums who goes by the name Jerry Garcia, I think he works in a 4 man Truck like yours. He has riding assingments based on an urban city that runs mainly 2-3 story PDs and 3-4 Story Apts. Search for his comments that might be of help.
Much of the FDNY system which really begins with the understanding of Ladders 3 (Multiple Dwellings) was developed over the years from going to 10,000s of fires over the 1960s and 1970s. It was written by a Chief who as a company officer spent most of his time at Ladder 26 when Harlem was burning down. You should get a small group of good company officers and firemen who have actually been to some fires. Not some book worm chief who never really spent any time as a fireman or company officer.
Much of it has to be flexible as somethings work and somethings wont. Our policies have changed over the years. Yours will too. I do suggest though you use the FDNY procedures as a template for the framework of your assingments. That doesn't mean do what we do but you'll understand it if it flows the same and has a similar layout. It is the format that makes it work.
Either way I applaud you for moving forward and setting forth the most basic procedures for the most frequent type fires you will have. It sure beats the pick-up football game some guys play when the IC assigns duties once at the fire. The safety, efficency and effectiveness of your operations will all improve.
01-04-2005, 12:32 AM #6
We have and officer, driver and 2-3 firefighters. No tools pre-assigned. They only thing pre-assingned is if the fires on the drivers side, the firefighter sitting behind him gets the nozzle (if first in) and vice versa. Or if we are laying a supply line, whatever side the hydrant is on that firefighter gets it.
Orders for tools are given by the officer depending on the situation. We want our officers to have that flexability. We also dont split our crew (other then the driver), unless we are laying a line.
This works the same for our engine company.
Last edited by Dave1983; 01-04-2005 at 12:39 AM.Fire Marshal/Safety Officer
"No his mind is not for rent, to any god or government"
Success is when skill meets opportunity
Failure is when fantasy meets reality
01-04-2005, 02:40 AM #7
We do a 5-man truck company on our truck, but we'll occasionally roll an engine as a 4-man truck company and attach the utility truck driver as the 5th. In either scenario, the positions are as follows:
FF behind Engineer
FF behind Captain
Tillerman or Utility
Tools vary based on the call and the specific duties assigned to the truck.Chris Gaylord
Emergency Planner / Fire Captain, UC Santa Cruz FD
01-06-2005, 04:26 PM #8
Thanks for all the ideas. Other opinions still encouraged/welcomed.Captain/EMT-P
01-07-2005, 12:46 AM #9
- Join Date
- Feb 1999
- Pittsburgh, PA USA
This is a great question. A good friend of mine and I were just talking about this the other night over a few drinks. We have a staffing of 4 on our trucks, but we both are in favor of getting a second truck on our initial responses. We send two trucks to a couple of areas with high hazards, but those areas are typically false alarm calls. Most areas we send one truck until a second alarm, although a couple Chiefs will put a second truck in on a special.
The best possible set up you can have consists of members operating in a "inside truck"/"outside truck" configurations. This ensures all the duties of the truck company can be employed. However, the key is COVERAGE. It takes proper staffing to be able to put people into positions where they can actual perform their tasks quickly and in coordination with the engine company. Normally financial restraints on smaller departments and small minded people (just put the wet stuff on the red stuff guys)have us end up with short staffing for truck operations. Ideal is two trucks with staffing of 6 each, this is what we should be striving for, but obviously its not possible for everyone. Although if you have more than one truck company and they are staffed with 4 each, dont wait for the second alarm to send them. Put two trucks on the initial assignment, again the key is accomplishing the tasks quickly. Most truck work involves life safety, or reducing the extension of the fire. If you wait, a life may be lost, and the fire has a greater chance to extend.
Now the question is what to do with a staffing of 4? My immediate thought is, "what can I do that will accomplish the most". I would have to say VENTILATION & ENTRY/EGRESS. If we can quickly confine or extinguish the fire, then we take away most of our problems, make things safer for everyone and accomplish most of our goals. So if we perform ventilation then we can provide better conditions for the engine company and allow them to find and control the fire faster, thus making things better. At the same time we are making conditions better for any occupants. Then if we can provide Entry/Egress we can open up more of the building making it safer especially for those trying to get out. Remember, we didnt start the fire, we will do our best to save lives and put the fire out, but our brother & sisters are inside, we need to ensure they have alternate ways out of the structure. During the process of laddering the building you can accomplish many tasks. If there is a strong chance of an occupied structure you can VES, ladder, vent, search, and shut any outside gas meters off during your trip around the building.
An engine company normally is focused on putting the fire out, and their movement is slower with a hand line. It is always going to be a faster search of a building with a truck company, but given your limited staffing I think you are best off operating the outside truck mode at most of you incidents. You can train your engine guys in searching as they go, its not as efficient but can work.
If circumstances are such that you have to commit your crew to interior search or rescue, dont go in understaffed, you will need your crew. Take at least 3 and leave your driver to get you horizontal ventilation at the best possible location for your safety, "Vent for Life". Have your next due engine fill out the truck responsibilities (big reason to cross train in smaller departments).
Anyhow, your thinking about it and thats what counts. Alot of good advice in these rooms, but look at your building stock, staffing, training, and attitude of your deparment and make it work.
01-07-2005, 01:35 AM #10
I was always taught that those riding on the driver's side are the exterior guys, for roof ops, FE, etc., and the guys on the officer's side were the interior guys for search, overhaul, and things like that.*Old FH Forum SN: WFDjr1*
01-07-2005, 07:08 PM #11
01-07-2005, 07:17 PM #12
- Join Date
- May 1999
- Here, There, Everywhere
None of them bro,
I just used the picture to illustrate everyone with their tool assignment for those guys who don't understand the concept. I found it online somewhere. I try to stay away from the Secret Overtime Club guys
01-07-2005, 07:29 PM #13
Not a secret anymore and no more ot either.
01-07-2005, 11:53 PM #14
Last edited by StLRes2cue; 11-16-2005 at 11:32 PM.
01-07-2005, 11:54 PM #15
- Join Date
- Jun 2004
- Syracuse , NY
In Syracuse we run 4 man Trucks.On structure fires,we send 3 Engines(also 4 man)/2 Trucks/Rescue(7 man) and a District(Battalion)Chief.
1st due Truck:
Officer and Driver are RIT/Fast until Rescue arrives.
Then the Officer does horizontal vent,Driver runs lights,ladders and secondary egress.
2 FF's do forcible entry and primary search.They carry the irons and a water can which is dropped at the door if it isn't gonna help.
2nd due Truck:
All four are vertical vent.
Two from the back are the roof team
Officer stays on the ladder at the roofs edge and Driver stays on the ground.
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