1. #1
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    Default What is EMS doing?

    While you are extricating the patient(s), what is EMS doing? Are they an integral part of the rescue, or simply waiting their turn? Do they often dictate your extrication techniques based upon injury, or allow you to perform as you see fit? Do they cooperatively train with you in extrication?
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    Default EMS

    Here is my view of your questions bigrig, by the way what part of NH are you from, that is where I am from orginally.

    1. Pt size up and care if possible - mobilization, c-spine, emotional support, IV etc.. whatever possibly that can be done to care for the pt or facilitate the rescue without interfering with the rescue.

    2. They are a part of the rescue. And in some cases will have to wait there turn, situation dictates.

    3. The pt dictates the means of extrication, with the understanding of the pt size up from medics or obvious needs of the pt.

    4. Medics are required to come to our training when they are on shift if they are not on calls, we do joint training 2 or 3 times a year.


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    EMS usually doesn't train with us but several of them used to be or are currently vollie FF somewhere. Some try to dictate what to do but unless it is a good point or suggestion we try to ignore it. It usually isn't a problem around here that I've seen.
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    Size up should let you know what needs to be done at a scene. It might be as simple as a door pop. But it might be a lengthy extraction, if so EMS (in our case we are one in the same) may need to start a line, control bleeding, etc. It does no good to extricate a dead victim. Size up should tell you what is most important.

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    In our case, our department does both EMS and extracation, so we do train together whenever we do this type of drill. EMS is a part of the team. They are usually in the vehicle treating the patient, holding stabilization or some other function while we are cutting.

    The two biggest issues we have with EMS stem from the fact that they are usually the first on scene and anxious to do their job. The size up we get on the radio is usually just that they are on location and maybe the number of vehicles. It makes it hard to determine if additional resources are going to be needed, or what to expect.

    We also have problems with them entering the vehicle before we can get it secured. I know the safety issues with that and it has been explained to them, but getting them to work from the outside until we can get there is difficult.

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    What is EMS doing
    The extrication. In my area, it's fairly common for EMS to do their own extrication. FD's are called to standby with a charged line for protection and mitigate any hazards (battery disconnect/fluids/etc.)

    Patient condition plays into removal methods.

    As the instructor for my EMS, I have included FD members in training classes. FD can provide more manpower to assist on scene so it's only natural to have them get trained.
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    as you can tell from the responses, "what is EMS doing" can vary depending on how your agency is set up.

    particularly:
    1) who is doing the extrication? Fire, Rescue/EMS, or a dedicated Rescue Squad (that does no EMS)?
    2) Are EMS properly equiped with turnout gear (at least coat and helmet/eye protection)?
    3) Is the extricating agency qualified to provide BLS or ALS care, or not?

    depending on the answers to the above questions will dictate what EMS is doing at a MVC with entrapment
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    Here EMS is a separate agency that works/trains in a intergrated format with Fire.Bi-directional communication at the scene dictates what actions will take place and when.T.C.

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    What does EMS do? Well they usually arrive on scene before we do and put themselves in harms way. We have invited them to train with us and come to inservices, but they apparently are fine with sitting in front of active airbags that have failed to deploy. After we arrive the show begins, they come up and say the patient needs this and that and needs to be brought out this way - we take it under advisement and perform the extrication after stabilizing and neutralizing the vehicle, how we feel it would best suit removing the patient and spinal equipment (Most ems crews dont take this in to account). As a former full time medic that worked with many of the people in the industry, I am waiting for the first EMS fatality as they just go barreling into a situation without taking into account they are putting themselves and there patients in.

    So good question - What is EMS doing?

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    Here we are all cross trained, so there is no real beef. Usually we do c-spine immobilization, IV if needed, oxygen placement and if needed SPO2 & cardiac monitor. Sometimes we can get a full set of V/S while changeing tools or a reassesment is being done. Here they seem to fucntion pretty darn good.
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