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Thread: Pierce (Appleton) vs Pierce (Bradenton / Contender)

  1. #41
    Forum Member Dave1983's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FYRTRUCKGUY2
    PS- To Dave1983- NEVER SAY NEVER ABOUT ANY BUILDER GOING OUT OF BUSINESS! Many said that about ALF back in their hay-days of the 60’ 70’s and 80’s when they were #1 also…At that time ALF seemed almost invincible and was merely “taking orders”…I firmly feel that ANYONE can go out of business with the correct miss-management or managers that do not fully understand the fire truck business as a whole!

    Ummm, where did I say builders NEVER go out of business? Try re-reading the post. Pay particular attention to the part about our FMC. I know all about builders going out of business.
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  2. #42
    MembersZone Subscriber BVFD1983's Avatar
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    I had some questions about the Contender build quality, fit, and finish.

    We looked at a light rescue similar to what we are buying and the quality was the same as our 100% custom Pierce heavy rescue body. I am sold...
    FTM - PTB

  3. #43
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    We had our representative price up both a Saber pumper "Appleton" build and also "Bradenton" built. There was about a $25,000.00 to $30,000.00 difference. The best way to sum the two up is that the Appleton Saber pumper has an unlimited options list, where the Contender has a limit. All of the options in the Contender are "pre-engineered", thus saving considerable costs. If you took the Contender mud flaps and logos off the vehicle, you would be hard pressed to tell the difference. We looked at both. Fit and finish seemed to be pretty identical. We not only looked at a demo unit but also two other FD's in our area that had Custom Contenders. Your decision should be based on both what your budget is and what you are trying to build. Oh, by the way, we're buying a Contender and loading it up with much needed equipment.

  4. #44
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    Content deleted by author.
    Last edited by Firefighter807; 07-08-2009 at 07:06 PM.

  5. #45
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    The Custom Contender also saves money by severly limiting your drivetrain to a low powered medium block engine, usually 330 hp. That's why you don't usually see a Custom Contender with a pump bigger than 1250 gpm and certainly aren't able to get a 1750 or bigger pump.

  6. #46
    MembersZone Subscriber BVFD1983's Avatar
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    Wrong.

    You can get a 400, I think it is the C9, but I am not sure.
    FTM - PTB

  7. #47
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    I didn't say you couldn't get a 400 hp - I said you usually don't see them with 400 hp. And, the 400 hp that is available is still a medium block that has to be wound up real tight to get 400 hp out of it, as compared to a big block that makes 400 hp with ease.

  8. #48
    MembersZone Subscriber BVFD1983's Avatar
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    Yeah but you see a lot of the 400 HP mouses being sold, so they must not be doing too bad.

    C9: 400 HP, 1050 ft. lbs.
    FTM - PTB

  9. #49
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    The fit and finish should look the same between a Saber and a custom Contender. Custom Contender chassis are built in Appleton. Most are then shipped to Florida for the body. Commercial Contenders are almost all built in Florida.

  10. #50
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    Content deleted by author.
    Last edited by Firefighter807; 07-08-2009 at 07:05 PM.

  11. #51
    MembersZone Subscriber BVFD1983's Avatar
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    Heck if money was no object I would want a 2000 GPM, 2000 gallon pumper/tanker on a tandem Quantum chassis...
    FTM - PTB

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefighter807
    Hey Squirrel -

    Most of the time, the WANTS out pace the NEEDS. When was the last time one pumper NEEDED 1750 gpm?

    1250 Pump - 1000 Tank = Most popular combination.

    If you NEED more go to Appleton. If you WANT more, do a NEEDS analysis.

    There's more to it than wants vs. needs. Sure, most pumpers are fine with 1250 or even 1000 gpm. If you want more, get more. Or, if you need more due to large buildings in your area or ISO required fire flow, then get more.

    However, there are other reasons to consider a drivetrain with more than a medium block engine. The Cummins ISL (medium block) makes 400 hp at 2000 rpm and 1200 ftlb of torque at 1300 rpm. The Cummins ISM (big block) can also be had in 400 hp version that makes 400 hp at 1500 rpm and 1450 ftlb of torque at 1200 rpm. See what I mean about the medium blocks being wound tighter to get the same hp rating?

    Another thing to consider is the transmission. Most of the trucks with medium blocks also save cost by using the Allision 3000 series instead of the Allison 4000 series. The max horsepower allowed for the Allision 3000 series is 400 hp and the max torque is 1250 ftlb. So, a combination of the ISL and the Allision 3000 is a combination of an engine that has to operate in a higher rpm range with a transmission that is very close to not being able to handle the torque input.

    The cost savings is great, no doubt about it. I wonder though, if in a high run environment, after several years if that combination doesn't start to catch up to you. It would seem to me the big block with the Allision 4000 transmission would provide much longer life because neither the engine nor the transmission are being run as hard when they're running. Just something to consider. The point is that all 400 hp engines are not the same and that you need to really look at the engines and transmissions when your speccing out a truck.

  13. #53
    Forum Member IronsMan53's Avatar
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    ChiefSquirrel, very good post about engine block size and HP ratings. I agree with you all the way on this one!
    I can't believe they actually pay me to do this!!!

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  14. #54
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    You can get a Cummins ISL400 in a Custom Contender or a Saber.

  15. #55

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    Default Been to both.

    Call or email me to discuss. We are very happy with product lines from both. Very happy with our Florida product.

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  16. #56
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    Default been to both places!

    In 2003 we purchased a Pierce 3000 gal. tanker on an International chassis (a Contender). We recently purchased another Pierce 2000 gal. tanker on an International chassis from Appleton. I was fortunate enough to go on both inspection trips. Both facilities were very impressive. The workers at both places seemed to take great pride in thier product. We would have gone with another Contender but we had height restrictions that required us to go "custom" to fit the truck in the building. So far I'd have to say that a truck from either plant is a good investment The workmanship is very similar on both.

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