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Thread: Pierce (Appleton) vs Pierce (Bradenton / Contender)

  1. #51
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    BVFD1983's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003


    Heck if money was no object I would want a 2000 GPM, 2000 gallon pumper/tanker on a tandem Quantum chassis...
    FTM - PTB

  2. #52
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    Join Date
    Jun 2004


    Quote Originally Posted by Firefighter807
    Hey Squirrel -

    Most of the time, the WANTS out pace the NEEDS. When was the last time one pumper NEEDED 1750 gpm?

    1250 Pump - 1000 Tank = Most popular combination.

    If you NEED more go to Appleton. If you WANT more, do a NEEDS analysis.

    There's more to it than wants vs. needs. Sure, most pumpers are fine with 1250 or even 1000 gpm. If you want more, get more. Or, if you need more due to large buildings in your area or ISO required fire flow, then get more.

    However, there are other reasons to consider a drivetrain with more than a medium block engine. The Cummins ISL (medium block) makes 400 hp at 2000 rpm and 1200 ftlb of torque at 1300 rpm. The Cummins ISM (big block) can also be had in 400 hp version that makes 400 hp at 1500 rpm and 1450 ftlb of torque at 1200 rpm. See what I mean about the medium blocks being wound tighter to get the same hp rating?

    Another thing to consider is the transmission. Most of the trucks with medium blocks also save cost by using the Allision 3000 series instead of the Allison 4000 series. The max horsepower allowed for the Allision 3000 series is 400 hp and the max torque is 1250 ftlb. So, a combination of the ISL and the Allision 3000 is a combination of an engine that has to operate in a higher rpm range with a transmission that is very close to not being able to handle the torque input.

    The cost savings is great, no doubt about it. I wonder though, if in a high run environment, after several years if that combination doesn't start to catch up to you. It would seem to me the big block with the Allision 4000 transmission would provide much longer life because neither the engine nor the transmission are being run as hard when they're running. Just something to consider. The point is that all 400 hp engines are not the same and that you need to really look at the engines and transmissions when your speccing out a truck.

  3. #53
    Forum Member
    IronsMan53's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004


    ChiefSquirrel, very good post about engine block size and HP ratings. I agree with you all the way on this one!
    I can't believe they actually pay me to do this!!!

    One friend noted yesterday that a fire officer only carries a flashlight, sometimes prompting grumbling from firefighters who have to lug tools and hoses.
    "The old saying is you never know how heavy that flashlight can become," the friend said.
    -from a tragic story posted on

  4. #54
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    May 2004


    You can get a Cummins ISL400 in a Custom Contender or a Saber.

  5. #55

    Join Date
    Jul 2009

    Default Been to both.

    Call or email me to discuss. We are very happy with product lines from both. Very happy with our Florida product.

    Battalion Chief Randell Nations

    Austin Fire Department

    Chief of Operations Support/R&D @ 51st

    2011 E. 51st Austin, TX 78723

    512-750-5864 Cell

    512-974-1730 Office

    512-478-9726 Fax

    “If it goes out there, it comes through here.”


  6. #56
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Dec 2008

    Default been to both places!

    In 2003 we purchased a Pierce 3000 gal. tanker on an International chassis (a Contender). We recently purchased another Pierce 2000 gal. tanker on an International chassis from Appleton. I was fortunate enough to go on both inspection trips. Both facilities were very impressive. The workers at both places seemed to take great pride in thier product. We would have gone with another Contender but we had height restrictions that required us to go "custom" to fit the truck in the building. So far I'd have to say that a truck from either plant is a good investment The workmanship is very similar on both.

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