1. #1
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    Default Think of this when they won't pull over for your blue light

    Bank Officer Is Pulled Over and Slain on Drive Home
    By PATRICK O'GILFOIL HEALY

    Published: January 7, 2005


    RANKLIN SQUARE, N.Y., Jan. 6 - A bank manager driving home from work on Wednesday night was pulled over, struck with a pistol and fatally shot here by a man posing as a police officer, the Nassau County Police said Thursday. The assailant is still being sought.

    The bank manager, James Gottlieb, 49, of Garden City, was on his way home from the HSBC Bank branch in Cedarhurst at 7 p.m. when a
    black sport utility vehicle appeared behind him with blue-and-white emergency light flashing on the dashboard , the police said.

    Mr. Gottlieb pulled over in front of 190 Semton Boulevard, but when he got out of his car, the gunman ordered him to lie down and said he was under arrest. The police said the gunman wore a dark hooded sweatshirt and not a police uniform.

    The men began to argue when Mr. Gottlieb demanded to see the man's police identification. The gunman refused, then demanded Mr. Gottlieb's car keys and threatened to handcuff him, the police said.

    Both men grew angrier, and the attacker struck Mr. Gottlieb with a pistol.

    When Mr. Gottlieb started walking toward a nearby house to get help, the gunman fired three shots, hitting Mr. Gottlieb in the leg and arm, and one shot was believed to have severed an artery, the police said. The police said they found shell casings at the scene, but would not say what type they were.

    The police would not comment on any possible motive.

    The shooting occurred in a middle-class residential neighborhood, where the homes still have Christmas lights up and reindeer on the lawn. It set off a flurry of 911 calls, since it happened as families were sitting down to eat and watching television with their children.

    A nearby resident who gave his name only as Daniel, saying he did not want the killer to be able to identify him, said he heard three pops and looked out his window to see the gunman inspect Mr. Gottlieb and walk back to his vehicle. He said the man drove away a moment later, his flashing light off.

    "The guy was very cool," he said. "He was not in a hurry. I thought it was a cop. He was very sure what he was doing."

    Mr. Gottlieb, still conscious and lucid after being shot, told Daniel what had happened and lay down in the back seat of his car to wait for help to arrive. He was shot at 7:06 p.m., arrived at Mercy Medical Center at 7:35 p.m., and was pronounced dead at 8:14 p.m., police and hospital officials said.

    The police said they believe Mr. Gottlieb bled to death, but they said a police ambulance had responded swiftly.

    "It was a devastating wound he suffered," Nassau Detective Lt. Dennis Farrell said. "It resulted in a tremendous loss of blood."

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    thats a damn shame !!

    i dont know what color NY uses but in NJ volunteer services use blue , but i do know in some states like SC blue is for police so that could have made the misshap , but they always tell you that if you are afraid to pull over by an unmarked car you dont have to untill a marked unit shows up or something of that such .
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    In NY blue is for volunteers. We've had instances here, being right on the NY border, that people said they didn't want to pull over for a FULLY MARKED AND LIGHTED police car due to this, thinking it was a volunteer firefighter. If I'm not mistaken, NY made it a law a few years ago that all police vehicles doing patrols on highways have to be fully marked, can anyone from NY confirm/deny this? It just goes to show you what kind of people are out there...
    The comments made by me are my opinions only, not of the Fire and EMS services I am affiliated with.

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    Here in Fla, the FHP just recieved 20 Mercury Marauders, unmarked and LED'd out. Since we use blue for Police units here, Northerners coming down can/will get confused, especially since they FHP targets aggressive drivers
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    Hello,

    I do not believe it is law, it was just the state goverenment trying to set some standards after there were problems several years ago,As far as I know the state police do not use unmarked cars for traffic stops. In addition most other police departments try to use marked cars for traffic enforcement. If the car is not marked the officer will at least be in uniform. On the rare occasion that a non-uniformed office has to make a traffic stop they will call for a marked car to back them up.

    Gary

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    The police DO NOT use blue lights here in NYS.

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    Alleged Cop Impersonator Says He Wanted To Stop Erratic Driver

    The question comes to mind...why would an ordinary Joe,just driving down the road with his wife, just happen to find himself driving his car that just happens to be equipped with a blue light on the dash (Hey! How'd that get there?) and a siren?

    Could be cop impersonator, could be volly? Hmmm.

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    The FHP Mauraders are specifically geared toward aggressive driving. They stated that they will catch more aggressive drivers if they are un-marked. They are, however in uniform and with all the lights in thier cars, I doubt a civilian could afford it. BCSO has an all black-tinted window, stealth Mustang that they use for trafic enforcement, and is again, staffed by a uniformed Deputy
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    WIth these issues in mind, and after talking to some LEO friends, the plan (for me and my family anyway) is that if any unmarked vehicle approaches from behind with lights/sirens, slow down and move out of the way. If it passes, great, if not, proceed slowly and lawfully to a well-lighted or well-populated area (parking lot is best) before stopping. As long as you don't act drunk or like you're going to take off, they will appreciate you stopping where they can also see you and where they don't have to dodge traffic.

    Those of you with lights in your POVs, try to not take it personal when law enforcement gives you a little grief about it, because this is what they're up against.

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    not for nothing, but I'm surprised this doesn't happen more often. well, not the shooting part, but the use of emergency lights in the commission of crimes.

    I always thought, if I was going to rob a bank, I would make sure my car was decked out in hideaway strobes, as well as a siren. then, when I was making my get away, I would just floor it, and once i turned away from the view of the bank, I would turn on all my strobes, and put a red (blue for those where PD use blue) LED or rotating light on my dash, and haul *** out of town. and the best thing is, I can purchase all that equipment legally, and as long as I pay for the equipment, the companies won't say a word.

    this is definately a shame. and not for nothing, but if a cop pulls me over in an unmarked car, and when gets out, he's wearing a dark hooded sweatshirt, I'm flooring it, and putting as much space between me and him as I can.

    the NJSP does use unmarked cars for traffic stops (sometimes on the turnpike), but the trooper is always in full uniform. so does local PD.
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    Red face

    As tragic as the situation that took place in N.Y. I believe that a little common sense could prevent things like that from happening. I don't want to sound judgemental-because I feel an enormous amount of empathy for that man's family, but first of all (if the article is correct) why did he get out of his car when he was pulled over? Ask any LEO, and they'll tell you, stay in your car when pulled over. Maybe if he had, he would have noticed that the supposed "officer" did not have any distinguishing identification. If he felt uneasy, he could simply have drove off, and proceeded to his nearest police dept. which would have accomplished one of two things: 1) he would have lost the shooter, or 2) if it was a true police officer he could have explained his rationalization, and filed a formal complaint with the department for utilizing that kind of practice.
    Or, atleast, that's what I would do.
    Like I said, I'm not trying to be too critical, but as a single female, I have had to learn ( sometimes the hard way) that not everything, or everyone is on the up and up. It is sad, however, that this had to happen

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    I don't see why there can't be some kind of uniform nationwide law that states what color Fire/EMS will use, what color LEO can use, and what color volunteers can use.

    Here in Florida, Fire/EMS, as well as volunter are required to use red and no blue. LEO is required to use blue, with red as a secondary color if desired. Why can't the whole country be like that?

    Some states require patrol units to be clearly marked. What good is that? Is it so that you know not to break the law around them? In Florida, LEO agencies can and will use unmarked vehicles to eat your *** up every chance they get. Most of the time, the officer or deputy will be wearing a regular uniform to indentify themselves as belonging to their specific agency. One thing I have learned from tough luck is that if you see a Crown Victoria or Impala on the side of the road or coming towards you, you had better slow yourself down. If you are pulled over by an unmarked unit, and you don't feel right about for some reason (ie no uniform, no ID), then haul ***. If you don't feel right about stopping, turn on your hazards and drive slowly until you get to a safe area.

    You can clearly tell when an unmarked is attempting to stop you. They usually have top and bottom inside windshield lighting, grille lighting, wig-wags, strobes and more lights than a whackermobile. LEO is not going to have just one flashing light on their dash. I highly doubt that Joe Schmoe impersonnating LEO will spend that much to make their car believable. I would not stop for some single flashing blue light behind me.
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    It doesn't matter if there is a nationwide standard for light colors. The a-holes will just aquire whatever color is required to look like a cop. It doesn't make a difference if it is consistent state-to-state.

    I would personally rather see the sale of lights and sirens restricted and require retailers to obtain written proof of eligability before they sell them. Right now, any numb nuts can buy any color light and a 400 watt siren with out so much as a "what is this for??"

    All of this crap gives those of us with legitimate and legal equipment that use it responsiblty a bad name.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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    Originally posted by Firefighter1219
    I don't see why there can't be some kind of uniform nationwide law that states what color Fire/EMS will use, what color LEO can use, and what color volunteers can use.
    Whatever national scheme you come up with will only make it easier for the bad guys to better peg a "recognized" color pattern to further their own ends. Not against a national stamdard per se, but it will not help this situation at all.

    If you are pulled over by an unmarked unit, and you don't feel right about for some reason (ie no uniform, no ID), then haul ***.
    This is a scary answer. You can get roughed up pretty good by adrenalized officers if you "haul ***" away from them, or even shot if you make the wrong twitch. However, I like where you went next with...
    {quote]If you don't feel right about stopping, turn on your hazards and drive slowly until you get to a safe area.[/quote]

    anyway....

    You can clearly tell when an unmarked is attempting to stop you. They usually have top and bottom inside windshield lighting, grille lighting, wig-wags, strobes and more lights than a whackermobile. LEO is not going to have just one flashing light on their dash.
    There are plenty of unmarked LEO units where I live where few lights is exactly the case, they will have perhaps a single dash light in front, and maybe a two color flaher in the rear, very low-key. What is true in your area is not necessarily universal.

    I highly doubt that Joe Schmoe impersonnating LEO will spend that much to make their car believable.
    We have a particular wannabe around here who has done exactly that, but has (so far) toed the legal line. I have also seen in print many accounts of impersonators going the whole nine yards, heck I remember one guy who spoofed the State into giving him Exempt license plates for his "cruiser". Another risky generalization that could get you into trouble.

    Stay safe.

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    Or, atleast, that's what I would do.
    Before or after yot crapped your pants?

    Can you imagine the scene at the Capital if they tried to pass a law regulating the sale of blue lights?

    It would be the "Million Whacker March".

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    Until limits are placed on these companys as to who they can sell too, unfortunate incidents like this are going to continue. Unless you can prove your a member of an emergency services orginization, you shouldnt be permitted to purchase lights, sirens, stun guns and so on.

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    This happen in Iowa about 8-10 years ago. A male used a blue light to pull a female over and rape and kill her. I can't remember the exact specifics. I tried googling it but gave up to watch football. My wife will not pull over for an unmarked police car. She will acknowledge the officer and drive to a public place or police department. We discussed this while living in San Diego after 17 year old female was pulled over by a California Highway Patrol Officer and murdered. It's unfortunate that stuff like this happens but most police officers I know understand if you proceed to a lit populated area before stopping.

    Rigin

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    From WAFB Channel 9 news in Baton Rouge.....

    Man Caught Pretending to be a Cop

    Authorities say a Baton Rouge man with a fascination for police officers and a history of pretending to be one is in trouble again.

    State police arrested 32-year-old James Abram just before midnight Thursday night for allegedly pretending to be a cop. State police say Abram was wearing a black tee-shirt with the emblem- "Fugtive Investigation Agent" embroidered on it. State police officials say Abram's gold badge, pistol, radio and handcuffs also made him look convincing.

    Troopers also discovered a Baton Rouge Police Department badge in Abram's car. State police say this is the second time abram has been arrested for impersonating a police officer.

    Abram was arrested and charged with illegal possession of flashing lights, possession of a firearm by a convicted felon, driving under suspension and false impersonation of a police officer. He's currently being held in the East Baton Rouge parish prison.

    If you think you may have encountered Abram while he was acting like a cop, state police want to hear from you at 225-925-1760.


    I saw this one on the news just last night. They had all his gear laid out on a table, including the above listed stuff, a siren, and a couple of other badges. Like they said, not the first time he had been arrested for this.
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    Opps. Didn't see the post above before sending mine. Guess we saw the same News broadcast.

    Here in Louisiana, Blue lights are law enforcement only. Anyone else using blue faces jail time. But that doesn't stop people from living out thier fanticies of being police. Heres one that got busted here in BatonRouge this week.
    -------------------
    http://wafb.com/Global/story.asp?S=2782174
    Authorities say a Baton Rouge man with a fascination for police officers and a history of pretending to be one is in trouble again.

    State police arrested 32-year-old James Abram just before midnight Thursday night for allegedly pretending to be a cop. State police say Abram was wearing a black tee-shirt with the emblem- "Fugtive Investigation Agent" embroidered on it. State police officials say Abram's gold badge, pistol, radio and handcuffs also made him look convincing.

    Troopers also discovered a Baton Rouge Police Department badge in Abram's car. State police say this is the second time abram has been arrested for impersonating a police officer.

    Abram was arrested and charged with illegal possession of flashing lights, possession of a firearm by a convicted felon, driving under suspension and false impersonation of a police officer. He's currently being held in the East Baton Rouge parish prison.

    If you think you may have encountered Abram while he was acting like a cop, state police want to hear from you at 225-925-1760.

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    Originally posted by nmfire
    It doesn't matter if there is a nationwide standard for light colors. The a-holes will just aquire whatever color is required to look like a cop. It doesn't make a difference if it is consistent state-to-state.

    I would personally rather see the sale of lights and sirens restricted and require retailers to obtain written proof of eligability before they sell them. Right now, any numb nuts can buy any color light and a 400 watt siren with out so much as a "what is this for??"

    All of this crap gives those of us with legitimate and legal equipment that use it responsiblty a bad name.
    I don't totally disagree, but I would still like to see a national standard on the selection of light colors for various purposes. Ohio is like Florida, blue lights are exclusively for law enforcement use. Fire, EMS, wreckers, utilities, etc are forbidden from using blue. Fire/EMS can use red or Red/White. Everything else has to use amber (there are some folks using green, but that color has no meaning in the Ohio Revised Code).

    At least if you restrict blue to only law enforcement, you give the police a tool to work with to try to stop criminal from impersonating an officer. As it is now, if someone from Pennsylvania drives through Ohio with a blue light on their vehicle, there is nothing that an Ohio police officer can do about it (I am a cop full time for those who didn't know that). As long as the light is not "displayed" (which, according to the law, means it has to be lit up while the vehicle is in motion), there is nothing to prevent someone from putting all kinds of blue lights on their car.

    Along with this, I would like to see some standardization on how to display any lights. In some states you cannot have lights above the roof line. In other states, the lights can only display to the front of the vehicle. In others, there are no limits. Having a standardized lighting code would also eliminate some embarassment to volunteers who happen to cross state lines with lights that are not permitted elsewhere.

    Since it was brougt up, in Ohio, if a police vehicle is being used for the purpose of traffic enforcement, it must have the word "POLICE" displayed on both sides in 2 inch letters (State Patrol has "STATE TROOPER") and must have an emergency light above the roof line. However, an unmarked car does not need to meet these requirements if it is used for other police work besides traffic enforcement. If an officer using such a vehicle happens to observe a traffic violation, they are still empowered to stop and detain the vehicle in order to issue a citation.
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    (I am a cop full time for those who didn't know that).
    What is your departments policy on a driver not yielding for you but driving to a populated area?

    Rigin

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    Not for anything, and not to sound insensitive, but I live in New York, as a matter of fact, I live in the town next to Franklin Square where this happened, but as was mentioned before, sometimes, you need to have some common sense. In New York, blue means volly FF, not police, so if you pull over and the car stops behind you, then why would you jump out? The light bulb in your head should go off that something just isn't right. I dunno, just sounds like people are making a big deal about the availability of lights and sirens when it seems like some people just need to practice some common sense. As far as someone posing as a police officer with a fake uniform, badges and authentic looking cruiser, well then that's different, but when in doubt, ask that officer to bring in additional marked units. If he refuses, roll up the windows and take off to your nearest station. I'm sure the cops would understand your concern. It's not like you ran away to your house. If you were really trying to avoid arrest, you wouldn't drive to a police station.
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    Originally posted by dmleblanc
    From WAFB Channel 9 news in Baton Rouge.....

    Man Caught Pretending to be a Cop

    Authorities say a Baton Rouge man with a fascination for police officers and a history of pretending to be one is in trouble again.

    State police arrested 32-year-old James Abram just before midnight Thursday night for allegedly pretending to be a cop. State police say Abram was wearing a black tee-shirt with the emblem- "Fugtive Investigation Agent" embroidered on it. State police officials say Abram's gold badge, pistol, radio and handcuffs also made him look convincing.

    Troopers also discovered a Baton Rouge Police Department badge in Abram's car. State police say this is the second time abram has been arrested for impersonating a police officer.

    Abram was arrested and charged with illegal possession of flashing lights, possession of a firearm by a convicted felon, driving under suspension and false impersonation of a police officer. He's currently being held in the East Baton Rouge parish prison.

    If you think you may have encountered Abram while he was acting like a cop, state police want to hear from you at 225-925-1760.


    I saw this one on the news just last night. They had all his gear laid out on a table, including the above listed stuff, a siren, and a couple of other badges. Like they said, not the first time he had been arrested for this.
    This may be a little different. May be. "Fugitive Investigation Agent" is what some Bail Bonds tracers or modern day Bounty Hunters call themselves. We had a xrew in NJ who kept getting locked up because they were decked out like cops in order to grab their fugitives.

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