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  1. #1
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    Default PTO versus Crossmount

    What are the advantages to the two kinds of pump. Does anyone do pump and roll with the 750-1000gpm PTO pump on an automatic. Looking at this option due to the cost. The crossmount is probably more idiot proof but more costly. Have looked at running a small auxillary pump with a PTO or even a midship. Don't need that many gallons when rolling, but want the big pump for ISO. Don't have any ISO rated pumpers currently. Now is the time to get the pumps if we are going to do it. Currently a nine and trying to work toward an 8b or even an 8. Will have 6500 gallons of water on trucks in district. Another 3-4000 in mutual aid water. Limited hydrants. How does the PTO perform pump & roll. Does the pressure vary that much or does it keep constant enough to fight a grass fire.


  2. #2
    dazed and confused Resq14's Avatar
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    I have no first-hand experience with newer pump and rolls.

    I've heard people recommend:

    - dedicated engine/pump configuration, to eliminate PTO issues
    - Hydraulic water pump, with the hydraulics powered off the PTO

    Both of the above will allow for effective pressure/flow regulation. I'm not sure how big you can go with a hydraulic water pump. A separate engine running the pump seems like the simplest method to me, though it's another engine to maintain.
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  3. #3
    MembersZone Subscriber mohican's Avatar
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    a pto pump can be a very viable option, but not every manufacturer is comfortable with them

    Darley has PTO pumps up to 1500, Waterous has PTO pumps to 1250gpm. I didn't see a pto pump on the Hale website

    A truck with a PTO pump can be much shorter than a midship pump, and a hydraulic drive pto can give a lot of mounting options

    A PTO pump can be large enough to qualify for an ISO rated engine and still pump and roll for field fire work.

    One thing to keep in mind, some of the new transmissions might allow you to engage the PTO while rolling. You don't want to engage a pump with the rpms elevated. A good salesman or tech can tell you more about this.

    Have you considered a front mount pump? You can get front mount pumps that will qualify for ISO, and you can pump and roll with a front mount driven off the engine. Something to think about.

  4. #4
    MembersZone Subscriber lenny91's Avatar
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    Default Crossmount

    My dept has both crossmount and PTO. I love the crossmount truck (1000gpm Darley powered by a chevy 454 with 1000gal tank). You can idle the pump motor and use it for grass fires by putting an 1 1/2 on the deck gun, or move the truck around a barn while running the 2 1/2 and get a lot done with your 1000 gal. Our PTO won't pump and roll but a dept down the road has one that does and it looks like the pressure really moves around a lot while they are pumping and rolling.

  5. #5
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    How does the pressure stay constant on a pump if you have pump and roll?
    I believe Fallon NV has pumper/tankers with remote controll deck guns and pump and roll. They can pump alot of water with not a lot of speed. I would think the pressure would depend of engine speed.

  6. #6
    Forum Member efd281's Avatar
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    Default Pump-and-Roll

    We have a tanker that has a 750 front-mount pump and a Roper? PTO pump. The front mount can save you $$$ and the PTO pump can be very effective with the proper driver training. It will depend alot on your RPM's. To maintain an effective flow, you have to downshift to a low gear and keep the RPM's up. We have use this set-up for years and it works great.
    I have but one ambition in life and that is to become a firefighter.

  7. #7
    MembersZone Subscriber mohican's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ledebuhr1
    How does the pressure stay constant on a pump if you have pump and roll?
    I believe Fallon NV has pumper/tankers with remote controll deck guns and pump and roll. They can pump alot of water with not a lot of speed. I would think the pressure would depend of engine speed.
    To some degree, the nozzle you use can regulate pressure and flow in a pump and roll situation, and pressure can also be regulated by valving, ie a pressure relief setting

    the hydraulically drive PTO pumps can also smooth out the ups and downs in pump pressure/flow, similar to hydraulic/pto generators

  8. #8
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    The problem with a PTO pump is that the PTO itself is very weak. It was designed for things like lifting a dump body and the like and driving 1000+ GPM is a little over and above. The hours they last before scheduled rebuild is like 125 if I remember correctly.

    I really like our latest with the regular midship pump and the 3 cylinder diesel aux pump. Those aux pumps have come a long way and now they are pretty high performance and as reliable as the main.

    CDF has quite a few engines with cross mount high GPM pumps that are also used to pump and roll as well.

    Birken

  9. #9
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    If Pump and Roll is a requirement for your department, I would definatley take the time to look at NH series pumps from Rosenbauer.

    Watch the video for the Tech Drive commercial pumper on their website. There is an excellent demonstration of this pump.
    http://rosenbaueramerica.com/Apparat...mper/Index.cfm


    There was also a little bit of discussion on this pump located here:
    http://forums.firehouse.com/showthread.php?t=73520

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