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Thread: "Bravest"

  1. #1
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    Default "Bravest"

    .
    Last edited by jcasey; 01-25-2005 at 01:46 PM.


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    Forum Member JJonesy's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Bravest"

    Originally posted by jcasey
    Or as I'm starting to lean to, over confidence and a built up self hero complex.
    Just to ask a clarifying question... Why are you leaning towards this? Do you see a trend of "over confidence and a built up self hero complex" of the east-coast folks?
    Jim

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    East Glenville FD eastglenvillefd.com

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    Forum Member BCmdepas3280's Avatar
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    If your smart you will delete the entire post....your going to get hit with newspaper
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    The beatings will continue until the morale improves

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    If your smart you will delete the entire post....your going to get hit with newspaper


    lmao DITO !!!

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    Forum Member Dave1983's Avatar
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    Default

    First, bow the head and tip the hat to NYFD on the loss. But... I have to ask why the East coast seems to be killing and hurting more FFs (NIOSH) than anywhere else. Is it the age of the buildings? Lack of enforcment pre-fire?

    Easy now boys These are good questions that I would like answers too myself. However, I could have done without the rest of his post
    Last edited by Dave1983; 01-24-2005 at 04:15 PM.
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    EuroFirefighter.com PaulGRIMWOOD's Avatar
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    Default

    Bad timing ....

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    MembersZone Subscriber SteveDude's Avatar
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    Angry

    Jesus!!!
    Can we get the mourning done here before we start pulling the FDNY or anyone else apart???

    Let the Brother be for a while Huh???
    Steve Dude
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    Angry

    The content and timing of your post is in extremely bad taste.
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    District Chief distchief60b's Avatar
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    The content and timing of your post is in extremely bad taste.
    Jesus!!! Can we get the mourning done here before we start pulling the FDNY or anyone else apart???

    Let the Brother be for a while Huh???
    I could not have said it better myself. But I will....BAD TIMING!!!!

    While those may be good questions, this is not the time nor the place to discuss them.
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    MembersZone Subscriber E229Lt's Avatar
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    I just get bothered by the fact WE call ourselves "Bravest", and "Hero".
    Then maybe you should stop. Firefighters don't call themselves heroes. What line of work are you in?

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    MembersZone Subscriber PFD109NFD107's Avatar
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    Default

    This has to be one of the poorest examples of caring about our fellow firefighters that I have ever seen.

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    Default I caj't believe we are discussing this!

    I think this thread is bad timing considering the mourning has just begun. Its tough to question the tactics of a FD that runs almost 30,000 Structure Fires a year. Lets face it, going back to the infamous risk management that has made Phoenix FD so famous. Risk a lot to save a life. Risk a little in a well-calculated manner to save property. Risk nothing for lives and property already lost. I know this is not verbatim, but generally the point. They went in that building because the probably of savable human life was evident. I would think this qualifies under the guideline of risk a lot to save a life. May we focus our energy on the "HEROS" that gave their life to save a life, may we pray for their families who will be forever devastated at their loss of a Husband, Dad, or Son. Our thoughts of and prayers go out to the brothers of FDNY.

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    Forum Member Weruj1's Avatar
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    Default OUCH that hurts ...........

    definetly bad timing .......hope they do an Ok convention......
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    Read this post from E40FDNY and next time think before you start typing!

    Life Without Dad
    January 24th, 2005 -- After their mother told them their father had been killed, the two little girls came out of the bedroom in tears.
    The older of Fire Lt. Curtis Meyran's daughters turned to a family friend named Jimmy Boyle who was standing in the living room.

    "What happened?" 10-year-old Angela now asked.

    Boyle had been up at St. Barnabas Hospital with the girls' mother. He is the former president of the firefighters union. He lost his son at the World Trade Center. He now tried to explain to Angela and her 6-year-old sister, Danine, how their father and another firefighter had perished at a fire in the Bronx.

    "Your father went off a building, but he saved everybody," Boyle said by his recollection. "Everybody got saved. He's a hero's hero."

    "Wow," Angela said. "That's nice."

    She was at her grandparents' house, the sun outside glinting off the snow. She had planned to go out when her daddy got home.

    "He was supposed to take me sleigh riding," Angela told Boyle.

    The little girl stood there with the enormity of life without her father. She began speaking of school, saying that she had a big test coming up.

    "I don't think I'll do that well because I love my daddy so much," Angela said. "I can't believe he's gone."

    "Your father's here with us now," Boyle would remember telling her. "You've got to believe he's sitting right on your shoulder and he's with my son also."

    Boyle said that he was sure she would do fine on the test, but she might take it a little later.

    "I think you're going to be helping Mommy," Boyle said.

    Angela told Boyle her father was her best friend, the one who watched the Yankees with her. She hugged Boyle and said her sister keeps a holy card from his son Michael's wake on her shelf.

    "Say a prayer tonight for Daddy," Boyle said. "Your daddy's with my son now. He's with the boys."

    Boyle looked at Danine, who had a heart defect as an infant and had been so tiny. She underwent five hours of open-heart surgery and here she was six years later, a healthy miracle of life, uncomprehending in the shadow of her father's death.

    "Mr. Boyle, I'm 40 pounds!" Danine announced.

    Angela said that Danine had not grasped that their daddy was never coming home.

    "My sister, she doesn't really understand yet," Angela said. "She's crying because I'm crying and Mommy's crying."

    Boyle took a moment to speak to the fallen firefighter's 16-year-old son, Dennis.

    "Your dad's gone," Boyle would recall saying. "He's a hero. At this point, we need you. You've got to step up. Make us all proud. You've got two little sisters."

    Dennis embraced Boyle. The boy would have to be as strong and brave as his father.

    "I will," Dennis said.

    The time came for the mother, Jeanette, to take the children through the snowy streets to the home that suddenly had no father. Jeanette had told Boyle earlier that she was sure this was all some horrible dream.

    "This isn't true, is it?" she had asked.

    She now went off with the kids into what was as real as the world's monumental unfairness. Her husband had time after time gone into fires to save others, once pulling two little girls from a blazing basement. Now he would never see his own children grow up and start families of their own. The firefighter who died with him, John Bellew, had four kids - 5 months to 6 years.

    Boyle was catching a ride home with Fire Chaplain John Delendick when the priest's phone rang. Another firefighter had been fatally injured, this one in Brooklyn.

    Delendick dropped Boyle off and raced to Brookdale University Hospital. Boyle remained at home. He recounted a moment at the hospital, after he had gone in with Jeanette Meyran to see her husband's body.

    "I just held her and I told her I loved her and I told her how much Curt loved her," Boyle said.

    Boyle then spoke again of 10-year-old Angela.

    "Such a little lady," Boyle said. "And so devastated."
    FTM-PTB-DTRT

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    Forum Member fftrainer's Avatar
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    Default

    Just my opinion, and like a hole in the rear, eveyone has one.
    Yup!!! And sometimes what comes out of those is poorly timed as well. If you seriously want these answers, check back down the road a few months. The poor guys aren't even buried yet and the smell of smoke still eminates from the fire buildings and we get this?

    Come on, use your brain just a little bit.

    Oh and for the record, not a single guy in my station nor myself consider ourselves 'heros' or 'bravest'.... we consider ourselves FIREFIGHTERS and nothing more.

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    MembersZone Subscriber arhaney's Avatar
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    I just get bothered by the fact WE call ourselves "Bravest", and "Hero".
    I don't know where it is that you get this. I personally don't know a single fireman that calls himself either................

    Come again sometime when you can be a bit more tactful.
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    I can't even believe that I'm reading this! - three guys have died doing what they do best - and probably better than anyone else, and now you want to question what they've done before the grieving process has barely begun? ...while their Brothers are still critically ill in hospital? Show some respect and sympathy to the victims, their families and their Brothers.

    Brothers - rest assured we will never forget you.
    Last edited by stillPSFB; 01-24-2005 at 10:12 PM.
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    Forum Member VinnieB's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Bravest"

    Originally posted by jcasey
    First, bow the head and tip the hat to NYFD on the loss. But... I have to ask why the East coast seems to be killing and hurting more FFs (NIOSH) than anywhere else. Is it the age of the buildings? Lack of enforcment pre-fire? Lack of training? Or as I'm starting to lean to, over confidence and a built up self hero complex.This is just food for thought and a topic for discussion, no blame or fault here. I just get bothered by the fact WE call ourselves "Bravest", and "Hero".

    Your Friggin' kidding right?

    Here's how I feel sometimes:I trained for this, and am just a skilled risk taker. The poor fool that drives a cab and runs in to rescue someone..well that is brave.

    You have no concept....re-read E229s post....


    Just my opinion, and like a hole in the rear,

    And apparently your head is firmly planted in your hole......

    Of all the crap I have read on this board....this post takes the cake....Have some respect, compassion, and common sense......
    IACOJ Member

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    Might as well try to correct his thinking:

    You will notice that there may be more structural injuries/fatalities in the east. The east is more populated and buildings are much closer together. But your fatality statistic if you can call it that is this- in 2003, 110 firefighters gave their lives serving others. 58 resided on the "east coast," if you count east coast from maine to TEXAS. And even then, the numbers are pretty even. East coast, especially NYC have buildings most would not know what to do with- old tenements and the like. There is the answer to your question.

    In response to your insensitivity to the current situation, I have never heard a firefighter (and I've spent time with MANY) refer to themselves as "the bravest," and some get visibly angry with the title of "hero." Sure, risk v. benefit makes sense, now look at the buildings involved this weekend and you tell me for sure no one was inside. You tell me that no one was inside the adjoining buildings (that's right, in NY exterior may not be effective due to the great building construction) and then maybe you will understand why interior operations are utilized in NY more often than they are elsewhere. I think you should take a job driving that cab for your chance to be a hero, while everyone else helps people because they enjoy it, and for the sake of helping people in their time of need, with full knowledge that the best deeds need no acknowledgement.

    It may be time to learn a little tact...

  20. #20
    MembersZone Subscriber arhaney's Avatar
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    Originally posted by orangehopeful
    Might as well try to correct his thinking:

    You will notice that there may be more structural injuries/fatalities in the east. The east is more populated and buildings are much closer together. But your fatality statistic if you can call it that is this- in 2003, 110 firefighters gave their lives serving others. 58 resided on the "east coast," if you count east coast from maine to TEXAS. And even then, the numbers are pretty even. East coast, especially NYC have buildings most would not know what to do with- old tenements and the like. There is the answer to your question.

    In response to your insensitivity to the current situation, I have never heard a firefighter (and I've spent time with MANY) refer to themselves as "the bravest," and some get visibly angry with the title of "hero." Sure, risk v. benefit makes sense, now look at the buildings involved this weekend and you tell me for sure no one was inside. You tell me that no one was inside the adjoining buildings (that's right, in NY exterior may not be effective due to the great building construction) and then maybe you will understand why interior operations are utilized in NY more often than they are elsewhere. I think you should take a job driving that cab for your chance to be a hero, while everyone else helps people because they enjoy it, and for the sake of helping people in their time of need, with full knowledge that the best deeds need no acknowledgement.

    It may be time to learn a little tact...


    Very well said..........I tip my hat to you!
    Chief
    Wren Volunteer Fire Department
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    http://www.wrenfiredepartment.4t.com/

    In Memory of:
    FireFighter/Pilot James Archer
    1946-2005
    "Rest in peace James, you now have the ultimate set of wings on you."

    Thanks, LeuitEFDems

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