1. #1
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    Smile San Francisco Fire and LA City Fire

    If there's someone from SFFD or LAFD on the threads, contact me off list...I have a couple of questions...Thanks.

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    Please ask any specific question you may have about the LAFD right here in the forum. That way we can all benefit.

    Brian
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    Talking Oh Boy............

    Another Wooden Ladder Thread????
    Never use Force! Get a Bigger Hammer.
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    Default Re: Oh Boy............

    Originally posted by hwoods
    Another Wooden Ladder Thread????
    LOL - Hey Harve lighten up - we haven't had one of those for at least three weeks!
    Busy polishing the stacked tips on the deckgun of I.A.C.O.J. Engine#1

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    we haven't had one of those for at least three weeks!
    Aren't we about due for red vs. yellow vs. white fire truck argument too, oh yeah, it's been a while for a tactical tupperware vs. dead cow too.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

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    Default

    Oh, and dont forget the ever popular "solid vs. fog" topic
    Fire Marshal/Safety Officer

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    Ahhh...the San Francisco Fire Department. One of the only true tradition based departments left on the Left Coast.

    Leather Helmets
    Long Coats
    3/4 Boots
    Wooden Ladders
    TILLER TRUCKS!
    Open Back Rescues!
    Multicolored Helmets to distinguish the REAL FIREMAN (Truckies)

    Man oh Man, if I lived out there I would take the paycut to work for those guys. The DCFD and the SFFD are about the only places I would change careers for.....
    Proud Right-Wing Extremist since 1992

    "Extreme Liberalism is a Mental Disorder"- Michael Savage

  8. #8
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    Default Ugh...

    Originally posted by TillerMan25
    Ahhh...the San Francisco Fire Department. One of the only true tradition based departments left on the Left Coast.

    Leather Helmets
    Long Coats
    3/4 Boots
    Wooden Ladders
    TILLER TRUCKS!
    Open Back Rescues!
    Multicolored Helmets to distinguish the REAL FIREMAN (Truckies)

    Man oh Man, if I lived out there I would take the paycut to work for those guys. The DCFD and the SFFD are about the only places I would change careers for.....
    Oh yeah, those 7 listed items listed are the only way to go.
    Any current day technology simply doesnt belong in the fire
    service. (Please throw out all of your TICs) I (Bou) ride
    a tiller truck with wooden ladders and it doesnt make a
    difference on how the fire goes out. I am no more the
    "big man" because of the vehicle and ladder type.

    Next, take a "pay cut" to work at SFFD? Not likely, pretty
    much everyone there is 100k a year and over.

    So glad you know so much about the California fire service.

    Lastly, One thing I have noticed in California, several of
    our "deep traditional" FDs keep making the newspapers in a
    negative light. Why is that? Its a mind set in "old skool".
    Time to wake up and move into the modern fire service.
    Last edited by CALFFBOU; 01-26-2005 at 02:25 PM.

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    Not likely, pretty much everyone there is 100K a year and over.
    A. You don't know what my current salary is.

    B. Figuring in the higher cost of living in California, $100,000 a year isn't all that much. Sheesh, out here where the C.O.L. is much lower, $100,000 a year isn't much.

    So glad you know so much about the California fire service
    Show me where I professed a wealth of knowledge about the California Fire Service please.
    Proud Right-Wing Extremist since 1992

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    Call me biased biut I am rather fond of :

    BIG RED TILLERS

    the wooden ladders

    the Leather Helmets

    and last but not least, all the men and women of the SFFD who look after this city.



    Last edited by superchef; 01-26-2005 at 05:38 PM.

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    Default Oh yeah?

    Originally posted by TillerMan25


    A. You don't know what my current salary is.

    B. Figuring in the higher cost of living in California, $100,000 a year isn't all that much. Sheesh, out here where the C.O.L. is much lower, $100,000 a year isn't much.

    Show me where I professed a wealth of knowledge about the California Fire Service please.
    A. Since I track FF's saleries across the country, (source-
    firecareers.com job postings) the few Firefighters that I
    know making over $100k a year are in California and the Las
    Vegas, Nevada area. I havent seen you post that you live in
    either area.

    B. The cost of living in NOT high in every area of California.
    It is very possible to make over 100k a year and live in a
    different area. (My exact situation, by choice)

    And...Show you your "wealth of knowledge", you posting the
    "highlights" of the SFFD in a manner that those should be the
    standard. Thats where you give the impression.
    Last edited by CALFFBOU; 01-26-2005 at 12:04 PM.

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    Default CALFFBOU

    I would bet $100.00 that the Average home price in this area is lower than most areas of California. How much are you paying for a Gallon of Gas? How much is your electric bill?

    I have no wealth of knowledge about any Fire Departments in California other than the knowledge I get from people on these forums and by my own observations. I pointed out the things that I think make the San Francisco Fire Department a great department. My own opinion only, sorry if that bothers you. I know how passionate you are about the modernization of the fire service.
    Proud Right-Wing Extremist since 1992

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    Default Sorry

    Sorry guys...didn't mean to start a war. I enjoy talking to folks from larger city fire departments, in order to form a dialog. I'm fascinated by both the "old school" and the new. Most of the time, I prefer to get the info "offline" via e-mail and not post on the forums because I like the candid answers that I get. It isn't my intent to have anyone air their dirty laundry. Even some department's problems and how they are handled interests me, just becuase it is a learning experience. All that aside, a little fun nudging back and forth is ok, but as long as it is good-natured

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    Default Re: Sorry

    Originally posted by phyrngn
    Sorry guys...didn't mean to start a war.
    You didn't start the "war." You merely suggested that you'd like to contact someone from LA Fire or SFFD.

    TillerMan25 and CALFFBOU...for some reason, got off topic and began a mild debate regarding certain departments. I hope they can keep it civil...right gentlemen?

    LAFDPSO...(Brian) is definitely the person to address your questions to. But he will only do it publicly on these forums. So, don't be shy...start a dialogue. From past encounters...I know he has a wealth of knowledge regarding LA Fire.

    His credentials:
    Brian Humphrey
    Firefighter/Paramedic
    Public Information Officer
    Los Angeles Fire Department

    As for you other two......is there a point to this "discussion"? Or is it about to get ugly?
    Last edited by NJFFSA16; 01-26-2005 at 02:18 PM.
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    I was just pointing out to the gentleman who started the thread some of the things that I think make the San Franciso Fire Department one of the most traditional departments in the Country. As far as the other guy, I have no idea what his beef is......have a good day!
    Proud Right-Wing Extremist since 1992

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    Default Re: Ugh...

    Originally posted by CALFFBOU


    Oh yeah, those 7 listed items listed are the only way to go.
    Any current day technology simply doesnt belong in the fire
    service. (Please throw out all of your TICs) I (Bou) ride
    a tiller truck with wooden ladders and it doesnt make a
    difference on how the fire goes out. I am no more the
    "big man" because of the vehicle and ladder type.

    Next, take a "pay cut" to work at SFFD? Not likely, pretty
    much everyone there is 100k a year and over.

    So glad you know so much about the California fire service.

    Lastly, One thing I have noticed in California, several of
    our "deep traditional" FDs keep making the newspapers in a
    negative light. Why is that? Its a mind set in "old skool".
    Time to wake up and move into the modern fire service.

    ah good old bou....have to check you ONCE AGAIN!!

    The starting salary for a SFFD H-2 Firefighter is about 54,000 dollars. Not much when you consider that the median home price in the bay area is 680,000 dollars. Which will buy you a 2 bed 1 bath house in the suburbs....

    Hmmm....shall we bring up bad news stories about the progressive fire departments?? There are pleanty!! People are firemen are people etc....Not the time nor the place to bring up negative stories...

    to the other gentleman:

    Leather Helmets - Yes, still leather, but no longer issue them

    Long Coats and 3/4 Boots - not anymore. full bunker gear unfortunately

    Wooden Ladders - Yup, as most other surrounding depts have as well.

    TILLER TRUCKS! - yep DITTO

    Open Back Rescues! - Only Rescue 2 and the spare Rescue I believe

    Multicolored Helmets to distinguish the REAL FIREMAN (Truckies) - Yes, REd and white panels for trucks, as well as Black and White for Rescue, Black top white rim for Chiefs' Aides, blue for BFI, White for Chiefs

    There are a few of us Traditionals left out here:

    San Francisco, Oakland, Hayward

    But we are few and far between and getting squeezed out by the "moderns" as quickly as they can do it....


    OFD 226
    Oakland Fire Department, California
    -------------------------------------
    "An aggressive interior attack does not mean just going inside to put out a fire. THAT'S just doing our job...."
    IAFF Local 55

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    Default Re: Re: Ugh...

    Originally posted by OFD226



    ah good old bou....have to check you ONCE AGAIN!!

    The starting salary for a SFFD H-2 Firefighter is about 54,000 dollars. Not much when you consider that the median home price in the bay area is 680,000 dollars. Which will buy you a 2 bed 1 bath house in the suburbs....

    Hmmm....shall we bring up bad news stories about the progressive fire departments?? There are pleanty!! People are firemen are people etc....Not the time nor the place to bring up negative stories...
    Yup, here we go again.

    #1. I have nothing against the SFFD, so please dont take it
    that way.

    #2. OFD, Most SFFD guys are making big bucks. Here is the
    salery class for H-2. I was talking about the max, you were
    talking about entry level. H-2 PAY I do
    know my friends (FF/PM) thee are bring home a BASE SALERY
    of around 98k. KRON News reported a FF/PM was making 106k
    on worker comp. last year. I am not slamming him, thats
    just what the news said.

    #3. Bad stories about the progreessive FDs? Go ahead. I
    dont see anyting negative about LA County, Ventura County,
    Orange County, Las Vegas, Clark County or Phoenix in the
    newspapers lately. Please bring us up to speed.

    Here are all of the salaries for the SFFD ranks...

    All position saleries

    Again, having all of those item Tillerman stated doesnt make
    a FD better.

    Check, back to you 226.
    Last edited by CALFFBOU; 01-26-2005 at 06:33 PM.

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    I checked out that paysclae link. A FF/paramedic makes 85G Our top FF/medic makes about 55G, and we are about average for this area. Then again, 680G here would buy you a 3 bed/bath with pool on the water. So I guess it all evens out
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    Default

    you also have to take into account that they are paying 9 percent (maybe more now) of the salary for retirement. (We personally pay 13%) they have also agreed to freeze wages, and I believe pay some back for next year.

    i agree that it looks good on paper....but the take home not quite as nice.
    -------------------------------------
    "An aggressive interior attack does not mean just going inside to put out a fire. THAT'S just doing our job...."
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    Default OFD

    I'm with ya Bro...I know where you came from, SQUUUAAAAD 8!

    I guess some of these dudes would rather fight fires with a book under each arm.
    Proud Right-Wing Extremist since 1992

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    If someone has something serious to ask, and it happens to be about the LAFD, I'm happily standing by.

    Brian
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    Smile LAFD

    OK...here are my questions...

    What kind of structural PPE (Brand and Model) does LAFD wear?

    What type of handheld radios do the FF of LAFD use? I noticed that LA is on a couple of different bands...are cross-band repeaters used, or does someone on the rig have to carry more than one radio?

    How is the Task Force Concept employed at a typical structure fire? Who does what? Does LA Fire use duties by riding position like FDNY? How many TAsk Forces does a structure fire receive? What if a LIght Force falls into the mix? Is it up to the IC to assign?

    Do LA Fire Paramedics get to fight fire?

    What shift schedule to LA FF work?

    I noticed after watching a couple videos of LA Firefighters in operation that they are very proficient in vertical ventilation. I was very impressed at how they handled their equipment. The firefighters were operating at a well-involved garden apartment fire, and they nearly cut the roof off of the building. Is there a standard procedure for roof operations as far as amount of ventilation provided for the engine crews, length of time on the roof, size of hole, etc?

    Does LA Fire have an online or CD-ROM drill/SOP manual available?

    How does LA Fire mesh with surrounding departments as far as operations at a structure fire?

    Thanks for the information...don't worry...I'll have plenty more questions....

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    Thank you for asking the questions publicly. Please know that my answers do not in any way serve as an endorsement or recommendation. We do neither.

    What kind of structural PPE (Brand and Model) does LAFD wear?

    LAFD Structural PPE is built to LAFD specific Department standards by a host of major vendors. The RFP's seem to go out on a two to five year cycle. Name the major vendor, and you'll probably find it being worn by one of the 3,382 uniformed members of our Department today. The different brands are virtually indestinguishable, as they are built to our specification. At this time, our agency is involved (in yet another of many) evaluations of strucural PPE. There are at least three vendors competing for what will probably prove to be a regional procurement between LAFD, LACoFD and the Ventura County Fire Protection District. No word yet on who will be the top bidder in this profoundly routine though competetive process.

    What type of handheld radios do the FF of LAFD use?

    At this time, every position in the field is assigned a Motorola XTS3500R handheld radio.

    I noticed that LA is on a couple of different bands...

    Since 1988, the LAFD has operated all routine voice communications on a fully repeated (analog conventional) 800 MHz radio system:

    http://www.lafd.org/freqncy.htm

    Since 1988, our data communication has taken place on 8 frequencies in the UHF-T Band. Therefore, there is need for only one radio per member and apparatus to accomplish routine LAFD operations. Because many of our allied and neighborhing agencies operate in other radio bands, there is one 250+ channel Motorola Astro handheld radio assigned to every LAFD Company for interop. Additionally, there are patch capabilities at dispatch centers and mobile units and trailers which can be brouht to major incidents when the need might arise.

    How is the Task Force Concept employed at a typical structure fire?

    The LAFD Task Force concept (ten members working under the Command of the Truck Company Captain on a two-part three-piece Company) has been covered in great length in many of the popular Fire Service publications, including Firehouse. I wish I had the time to get into as much detail as those often five-page articles.

    Who does what?

    There are only recommendations, not absolutes. As one might expect the Incident and Company Commander calls the shots. In the truly most basic of terms (I could write for hours and not even scratch the surface)....at fictional LAFD Station 22, there are two fire Companies:

    Engine Company 22 and Light Force 22.

    "Engine 22" is as the name implies.

    "Light Force 22" however, is a two-piece Company, comprised of an Tractor-drawn 100' Aerial Ladder (Truck 22) and a fully stocked and capable pumper (Engine 222) which has only an Engineer-Driver. Engine 222 always follows Truck 22 closely, as the Truck Company has no hose, pump or water.

    They can respond separately (as either Engine 22 or Light Force 22) or together under the Command of the Truck Captain as "Task Force 22". The riding positions are staffed by/labeled...

    Truck 22 -
    Captain II - Task Force/Light Force Commander
    Apparatus Operator - Driver & Aerial Operator (equiv to Engineer)
    Firefighter - Top Member
    Firefighter - Inside Member
    Firefighter - Tiller Member

    Engine 222
    Engineer - Driver & Operator (always follows Truck 22)

    Engine 22
    Captain I - Engine Company Commander
    Engineer - Driver & Operator
    Firefighter - Nozzle Member
    Firefighter - Hydrant Member

    Does LA Fire use duties by riding position...

    Yes.

    ...like FDNY?

    No.

    How many TAsk Forces does a structure fire receive?

    The LAFD continuosly surveys its 470 square-mile jurisdicition to determine a "First Alarm" assignment for any given address in the City. That's right, each address has particular determinents based upon actual or anticipated hazards or concerns.

    A typical Los Angeles surburban single family dwelling will receive a "Category A" assignment, while larger structures or special sites will typically receive a "Category B" assignment.

    CATEGORY A: Not less than four Fire Companies, including not less than
    one Truck, one Paramedic Ambulance and one Battalion Chief.

    CRITERIA FOR CATEGORY A:
    1. Required fire flow: less than 4500 GPM; and
    2. All occupancies not included in Category B or C.

    DISPATCH:
    1. The nearest available Light Force will always be dispatched.


    CATEGORY B: Not less than six Fire Companies, including not less than
    two Trucks, one Paramedic Ambulance and one Battalion Chief

    CRITERIA FOR CATEGORY B:
    1. Required fire flow: 4500 GPM and above.
    2. Dwellings, apartments, and hotel occupancies four or more stories in height.
    3. All commercial and/or industrial properties that exceed:
    a. More than 15,000 sq. ft. under one roof, on two floors.
    b. More than 10,000 sq. ft. under one roof on one floor.
    4. All Fire Prevention Bureau occupancies in the Public Safety Section:
    a. Schools, special schools, day nurseries two or more stories;
    b. Sanatoriums, homes for aged, hospitals, public assemblages, and
    churches except B2 occupancies under 100 feet.
    5. All assemblage occupancies on second floor or above.

    DISPATCH:
    1. The nearest available Light Forces will always be dispatched.


    CATEGORY C: Not less than four Fire Companies, including not less than
    three Engine Companies and one Truck.

    NOTE: This is a category of special assignments that the computer
    recognizes, i.e., Brush, Harbor, Airport, etc.

    Required fire flow: The standard used to estimate the number of
    companies needed to extinguish a fully involved structure fire is 250
    GPM per line and two lines (500 GPM) per company.

    What if a LIght Force falls into the mix? Is it up to the IC to assign?

    The Incident Commander is encouraged to request what they please. Our Dispatch sends the closest requested unit or equivalent

    (i.e. If the IC asks for two Task Forces, the Dispatcher may simply send TF45 and TF54, or Light Force 30 and Engine 31 as well as Light Force 67 and Engine 36 as equivalents if they are closest.

    Do LA Fire Paramedics get to fight fire?

    Yes. Our Department is staffed with dual-function Firefighter/Paramedics. While on assigned or rotational duties as a Paramedic for that tour of duty, they serve at the will of the Incident Commander. Though they are *not* often sent to do inside work (it does happen but not often), they are usually standing by on all fires until knockdown to render care to civilians or Firefighters. Rarely, they are assigned collateral duties by the IC, such as securing utilities, controlling traffic, etc.

    When there is a working fire, especially a Greater Alarm, they are in their full PPE's to serve as part of a Rapid Intervention Team.

    What shift schedule to LA FF work?

    http://www.lafd.org/shift.htm

    I noticed after watching a couple videos of LA Firefighters in
    operation that they are very proficient in vertical ventilation.


    We do indeed have our moments!

    I was very impressed at how they handled their equipment.

    The service-marked motto at our training center:

    "Train As If Your Life Depends Upon It... Because It Does! ®

    The firefighters were operating at a well-involved garden apartment fire, and they nearly cut the roof off of the building.

    I remember that fire!

    Is there a standard procedure for roof operations

    Yes.

    ...as far as amount of ventilation provided for the engine crews,
    length of time on the roof, size of hole, etc?


    The LAFD mantra is to always (and we do mean always) anticipate the needs of your colleagues, and then to exceed their expectations while providing for a wide margin of safety and operational efficiency.

    Does LA Fire have an online or CD-ROM drill/SOP manual available?

    No.

    How does LA Fire mesh with surrounding departments as far as operations at a structure fire?

    We're pleased with our interagency operations, and in 119 years have yet to have anyone say anything (to our face) to the contrary.

    Thanks for the information...don't worry...I'll have plenty more questions....

    My time being limited, please know that while I am pleased to offer fraternal insight, you'll always get more out of me when the questions are of an obvious need to know matter.

    Fraternally,

    Brian
    Please no e-mail. Public replies only. Thank you!

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    Smile

    Hey Brian -- how is the LAFD evaluation of the mechanical sirens working out? I know you guys had put Timberwolf sirens on your new Seagrave rigs and Q's on your Pierces. Have any decisions been made about whether they'll be spec'd on rigs in the future?

    Obviously not a need to know question...but just wondering, if you've got the time.

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