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    Content deleted by author.
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    Maybe the Seagrave/FDNY crack is getting wider.


    However, the FDNY Rescue's are all E-Ones, so it really doesn't matter....

    E-One did recently cloes the Saulsbury plant, so that accounts for that.
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    Default Re: FDNY Rescue 1 - PIERCE!

    Originally posted by Firefighter807
    Does anyone know about FDNY getting a Pierce heavy rescue for Rescue 1 in midtown Manhattan?
    Show me.
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    Default crap crap crap

    Firefighter 807, please explain why this would have anything to do with FDNY's relationship with Seagrave?

    In 1981, Saulsbury received their first order for a Heavy Rescue for FDNY- Anyone remember Rescue 2's American LaFrance CTC Chassis? This began the long, prosperous relationship between not only FDNY, but also NYPD and Saulsbury.

    Why? QUALITY. Not that Seagrave could not do what Saulsbury has done for years, but what Saulsbury has done, would be hard to duplicate. Imagine tons and tons of vehicle and equipment (so much equipment that it required a dual-axle chassis to roll on) doing thousands of runs per year on busy, potholed and bump-strewn streets of New York. Only a custom builder of Stainless Steel bodies could even think of doing this. Seagrave never bid the Rescues, simply for the fact that they knew that Saulsbury could out-do them!

    But now, with E-WONT's purchase of Saulsbury, Destinations Unknown lay over the horizon. E-Wont devistated Saulsbury, laid off many of the Stainless Steel body men, the engineers, the quality control people, etc. Saulsbury is now nothing more than an extension of the Ocala, Florida trash truck builder. REMEMBER: BE KIND TO THE ENVIRONMENT, RECYCLE YOUR E-ONE INTO BEER & SODA CANS!

    After having made a phone call to the "Authority Having Jurisdiction" of FDNY Apparatus, I can safely say to Firefighter807, I am making a BS CALL on you!
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    Default Try the de-caf man!

    I was just asking a question!

    So FWD Buff, tell us what your "authority having jurisdiction" had to say.

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    I wonder where the city will go for their rescues now that Saulsbury has been closed. I doubt E-1 is interested.

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    Originally posted by sven73
    I wonder where the city will go for their rescues now that Saulsbury has been closed. I doubt E-1 is interested.
    You don't think that E-One is interested in contracts for 5 Million Dollar vehicles?

    They will step on their grandmother's toes to get at the bid papers!
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    I guess I was just thinking that E-1 would prefer to work with aluminum and FDNY wants SS.

    From the various posts here it does not seem like many Saulsbury people moved to Florida.

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    I have no doubt that there will be some great Saulsbury Rescue Boxs attaced to some crummy E-One chassies now.
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    We had a Pierce representative in the house yesterday to do our 8 hr inservice training for our new Truck. In talking to the guy (who was very nice by the way...very customer oriented)..he mentioned to me that Pierce is trying hard to be a contender for the FDNY market. Take that for what it's worth coming from a rep. This was my first time dealing with Pierce but I was pretty impressed by them...we'll have to see how the Truck holds up.
    Last edited by SAFD46Truck; 01-27-2005 at 11:39 AM.

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    Default Re: FDNY Rescue 1 - PIERCE!

    Originally posted by Firefighter807
    Does anyone know about FDNY getting a Pierce heavy rescue for Rescue 1 in midtown Manhattan? Could the cracks in the FDNY and Seagrave relationship be getting bigger?
    The only Pierce Rescue I see that went to New York was a donation, the result of fundraising efforts after 9-11. Is there another???

    FDNY Pierce

    The article:
    --------------------------------------------------
    APPLETON, WIS. (October 22) – The West Valley (Utah) Fire Department and Pierce Manufacturing have teamed up to assist the Fire Department of New York (FDNY) as a result of the terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center Sept. 11.
    The West Valley Fire Department has created The Fallen Fund national tour, whose goal is to help raise money for the families of fallen firefighters and to provide a new fire truck for New York City. Driving a Pierce Saber® fire truck, which Pierce has provided to the group, the Utah firefighters will tour 16 major American cities over the next 3 weeks to raise funds.

    As part of the nation's outpouring of support for New York firefighters, and the city in general, Pierce Manufacturing will also donate a rescue apparatus to the Fire Department of New York.

    "Those of us in the fire protection industry are saddened by the events of September 11,” said John Randjelovic, president of Pierce. “But because we deal with firefighters daily we feel a special bond. These people are our brothers and sisters, and we feel compelled to help. The members of West Valley Fire Department say they were 'driven' to create The Fallen Fund. So, too, are we proud to contribute in our own way. We at Pierce manufacture fire and rescue trucks, so that is what we can and will do for the firefighters and people of New York," said Randjelovic.

    The Fire Department of New York has unique requirements for its fire apparatus. A Pierce representative visited New York City recently to help develop specifications for the type of vehicle most needed by the department. The result is that Pierce is building a new heavy duty rescue truck built on a Kenworth chassis that it will donate to the department. The truck will bear a special vehicle identification number 9-11-01.

    Members of the West Valley Fire Department, which is a suburb of Salt Lake City, will solicit funds with the help of fire departments they will visit on their Fallen Fund tour.

    The Fallen Fund asks that each American household donate $9.11 (representing the date of the attack) to the fund. It also asks businesses and community organizations to donate $9.11 for each employee or member, with a maximum of $375 (which represents the number of firefighters and rescue workers lost). Donations can be made at any Zions Bank in the name of The Fallen Fund, 3720 West - 3500 South, West Valley City, UT 84120.

    The tour begins at Pierce Manufacturing's headquarters in Appleton, Wis., Monday, October 22.
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    I see a trend of FDNY expanding its apparatus line past seagrave not a total going the other way. I dont believe that FDNY has been seagrave exclusive. They are purchasing more apparatus from Ferrara than I can remember which is not much. I am interested to see what the future holds for FDNY apparatus.

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    Rich , got any pics ?
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    Smile

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    SAFD46Truck,

    All I have to say is good luck with getting the bugs out of the computer system. It got so bad that my chief had a conference call with engineers and the President of Pierce.

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    Luckily this Truck isn't a multi-plexed apparatus, so we hope to avoid those computer problems. The city did however purchase a multi-plexed unit to replace 6Truck, it will be interesting to see how that works out. Pics at www.sanantonioFIRE.org

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    Content deleted by author.
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    Well, here's my 2 cents, even though it doesnt mean much!!

    In my department's Pierce experience, we have found that even though the truck is of the highest quality, pierce was not as open to custom modifications as other manufacturer's were. This wont stop my department from buying another pierce, because we are very happy with it, but FDNY is a different story.

    I'm good friends with a chauffeur for E-3 down in lower manhattan. He is also a member of the apparatus committee for FDNY. He informs me that while quality and reliability does come into play when FDNY buys trucks, the real prevailing necessity is cost and custom builds.

    FDNY wants an extremely custom vehicle, at a low price. Unless Pierce is turning a new leaf, I doubt they would be able to meet the spec plus give them a better price.

    But than again, stranger things have happened.

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    Default Is anyone "TRULY READY" for FDNY?

    It has been interesting to watch the comments and visions shared by everyone on what products, the future, the rumors and ideology is of FDNY. I have a “little” experience with the City and the reality issues that have been slightly “touched” on in this forum. One thing that has not been mentioned is the VERY complex issues FDNY faces on apparatus purchases.

    I would lend that it is very easy for people to “forecast” or look into their crystal ball about FDNY and the potential suppliers of apparatus. I would further lend, that if someone has not dealt with FDNY through "hands on" experience, they have no idea of the logistics involved to support the “entire” package for FDNY. While some people think it would be very “cool” to by an FDNY supplier, many do not understand what it takes to truly be a “complete” vendor to the City, nor are they aware of what it takes after the actual sale of the vehicle. Not only are there the front end issues (legal and certification) that are special and labor intensive, before the truck ever goes to bid, there is a long list of requirements that need to be in place long before the actual construction of a vehicle, in order to support them after the delivery. These companies want to simply jump in and be a part of the FDNY apparatus fleet, many times doing so without knowledge of “the whole picture”. The intricate internal workings of the FDNY’s shops is waaaaay beyond the scope of what many people realize. Anyone, who has visited the shops, may have seen the surface of what occurs there everyday, but may not understand what lies under the surface to support a fleet the size of FDNY’s. I loudly applaude the admirable job and competency of the FDNY shop staff! If people only knew what kind of magic they work EVERYDAY and the logistics of it, they would also.

    If ANYONE wants to do business with FDNY, I personally feel that it would take at least 2 years to investigate, prepare, engineer, develop support systems, a dealer, a service plan, a parts distribution system, and a long term support structure, before ever thinking of taking on FDNY apparatus. If a builder thinks they can simply walk-in and be low bid, get the order and then deliver a truck to FDNY is going to have a very rude wide awakening in the process! I would lend that there are a couple suppliers currently, getting their feet wet with FDNY and will begin to realize what I am talking about. Many times, these new players, charge in-whole hog, only to find out what it really takes and soon realize the chest thumping and ability to say "I am an FDNY supplier" may not have been all its quacked up to be from a "business" standpoint. I say that because it can cost a company a ton of money, if they are not prepared ahead of time. Unfortunately for FDNY these people (new suppliers) may not have the apptitude, pasionate desire, financial backing or systems to stay in the game, simply walking away and leave NY hanging with “odd ball” trucks in their fleet. Simply look at history and historical data. Why does FDNY develop, nurture and mature a builder? Its because they need them to be financially strong and around for the long term, or they get stuck with junk in their fleet that is a pain in the backside to maintain. A good example is the “stuff” they received post 911. First...God bless the gracious offerings by thousands that wanted to donate to FDNY at a time of need! This wide array of gifted apparatus is one off, different, oddball parts that they do not stack, requires different electrical schematics, different bulbs, different latches, different doors, different windshields, one and on! It is literally a major pain for Support Services to keep the stuff on the street, when it takes forever waiting for parts and support form the manufacturer and sits in the shop occupying floor space at red square for days on end! It was unheralded of people to donate, but in reality, Support Services ends up paying a lot in the long run! Some people thought FDNY was arrogant and unappreciative of offered “free” stuff following 911, but it was only because they do not know what it takes to maintain the “stuff” after it is not brand new and pretty anymore (and that takes about 2 days in NY)!

    If I was FDNY (which of course I am not), I would be preparing and nurturing an additional "builder of choice" to fully understand the internal workings of the Department and its support systems, way ahead of time, to have the flexibility of having more than one TRULY QUALIFIED supplier. I can say, Seagrave has performed nearly flawlessly (again, in my opinion), if one knows what it takes to logistically support the number of vehicles in the city that have Seagrave logos on them! Why? Because they know EVERY detail of what it takes to operate in the City. FDNY could develop a vendor/supplier development program that illustrates to companies interested in their business what it requires in order to become a “certified” supplier, rather than a low bidder who delivers a few trucks and then goes away, leaving Support Services holding the bag with a morphadite apparatus that needs to be kept afloat for the rest of its useful life.

    If Pierce (as everyone seems to be seeing in their crystal ball) or ANYONE else wants FDNY business, they have a ton or work to do, before they could EVER consider themselves as being a certified and legitimate supplier. Being that everyone has mentioned Pierce: Could they do it? Yes. Could they develop an apparatus plan and build FDNY style designs? Yes. Have they do it for other big fleet users? Yes. Is FDNY different than any other department in the US? YES! Can the standard designs of any company, including Pierce, simply be duplicated for an FDNY application? NO! Can they do it right now? “MY opinion”, NO. Could they do it 2 years from now with significant investment and planning? Yes. They, nor ANYONE else in the business, are ready for FDNY and what it takes to support them. I can say with pretty strong confidence that anyone supplying apparatus to FDNY right now, other than Seagrave, is flying by the seat of their pants! AND NO, I did not say any current suppliers are junk builders, nor that the trucks they build are not sound, I simply state that there is MUCH more than just product (which is designed the way it is for good reason, not just because FDNY makes it that way for prettiness), when it comes to being a total “Package” supplier for FDNY. Just some food for thought.

    Good Luck and Stay Safe.

    GUY

    PS- In regards to the $5MIL order comment and “someone” walking away form a “big order”. there may be some people in sunny places that view NY’s business as “not worth it”……..I would lend that may be only due the manufacturers own shortcomings, inexperience, limited knowledge, with the intimate processes and operations of FDNY and inappropriate preparation to furnish FDNY with the designs and proven components that will hold up for the long term.

    firefightertp....my three cents is not worth much either! LOL!

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    The only Pierce in service in FDNY as far as I know is HM 1's second piece on a commercial chasis.
    The rescues are packed full of crap (tools and gizmos) from bumper to bumper this stuff adds up and beats the hell out of any chassis. The previous HME's fell apart very early in the game and saulsbury learned from that.
    As for building the rigs, the specs are the specs, build it or go away, we buy FDNY rigs, not seagrave or ferrara or any other brand.
    The previous post about some other vendors "flying by the seat of their pants" is true. Companies playing out of their league have gone belly up trying to produce for big cities. If you can't build it in quanity and in a timely manner and then support it with a tremendous warranty period and keep parts and repairs moving you will be done.
    Last edited by jfTL41; 10-19-2005 at 07:32 PM.

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    Got to agree about the daily "miracles" in both the FDNY and Chicago shops.And to the fact that standardization really does help in keeping equipment alive and in service.I'd love to set in on the spec writing for the city but NO WAY do I want to do the building. T.C.

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    Upon further investigation I stand corrected, Pierce is a contender for the next rescue bid, let's see how it plays out.

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    I thought a Pierce wouldn't fit in the firehouse.

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    If they can (will) build to comply with the specs they will be able to. Most mfgrs make two standard width chassis, our spec calls for a narrower rig, so most mfgrs don't want to deviate from what their plants are set up to build.

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