1. #1
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    Default Diesel Exhaust Systems

    I am doing some research for our fire department website...

    Does anyone know the history of diesel exhaust systems in firehouses?

    Thanks!

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    what do you mean by history?
    I know alot of depts, mine included, use the plymovent system. We got our through a FEMA grant and had installed about a month ago. SO far so good. Our tanker would fill the station with smoke each time it started up, but now with the vent system, it's nice and clean. I don't wokr for plymovent, or have any vested interest in the company, just telling you my experience with it thus far. Hope this helps.
    The comments made by me are my opinions only, not of the Fire and EMS services I am affiliated with.

    I have lost my mind..has anyone seen it? it's not worth much..but it's mine

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    This is off of New Jersey's question, but LeuitEF I'm courious about your exhaust system. This has came up in duscussions at my department for a possible 2005 FEMA request. I haven't started doing any research due to the fact that we haven't decided what we are going to ask for this time. I do have a couple of questions though. How hard was it to install? Is it effictive? What is a "ball park" price? I do believe that this will get the majority of the votes. Thanks

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    JR,
    Not hard at all...the installers did it in 2 days. It is very effective. Like I said, our tanker is a smoke stack when it starts up. With the plymovent attached, the bay was as clear as it was before the truck starts up...now, the smoke comming out of the plymovent exhaust is another story...looked like a chimminy...but that's it doing it's job. If you don't know which one the plymovent is, it's the bright yellow tubes connected directly to the exhaust. You can be going out of the station at a pretty good clip (10mph or so) and the hoses still will pop off correctly. We had it installed in 2 stations. 3 ports in 1 and 2 ports in the other. All said and done, I believe it was about $40K. One thing you have to make sure is that the electric service into the station will handle it. We had to upgrade our older station. Not sure if that was included in the total price. Any other questions, feel free to ask, PM, or Email me.
    The comments made by me are my opinions only, not of the Fire and EMS services I am affiliated with.

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    Question Re: Diesel Exhaust Systems

    Originally posted by newjerseyuser1
    I am doing some research for our fire department website...

    Does anyone know the history of diesel exhaust systems in firehouses?

    Thanks!

    History? There is plenty of history on diesel and gasoline fumes in all fire houses. All are very bad.

    We are in the process of installing Ward Diesel Exhaust systems on our fleet of 50 pieces of apparatus.
    Stay Safe and Well Out There....

    Always remembering 9-11-2001 and 343+ Brothers

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    Captoldtimer,
    Did you guys get all the facts on diesel emissions before going with ward? I have an ecerpt about the ward product here:

    SPECIFICATIONS FOR DIESEL EXHAUST FILTERING DEVICE
    The intent of these specifications is to define a device, system, method, etc. (hereafter referred to as “system”) that will prevent diesel particulate (soot) being emitted from vehicles while in an enclosed area.



    -As you can see it removes "soot". Soot is the particulate that you can see. Yes it carries carcinogens, but its the particulate that you cant see that makes it through these filters. I will try to find my info regarding this, but the only current way to eliminate hazards 100% is with an outside exhausting system. The filters may cover up the soot - Dont be fooled - what you cant see will kill you just as fast!

    Below is an excerpt from my info!

    NFPA 1500 Handbook, Paragraph 7-1.5 requires that the fire station be designed and provided
    with means to ventilate exhaust emissions from the fire apparatus to prevent exposure to fire
    fighters and contamination of living and sleeping areas. It also states:
    "that the carcinogenic effect of diesel exhaust is present even if the particulates (soot) are
    filtered out of the exhaust."
    "the most effective means is to connect a hose that ventilates exhaust to the outside to the
    exhaust pipe of all vehicles."
    Diesel Exhaust in Fire Stations, Information Bulletin, New Jersey Department of Health,
    identifies Polynuclear Aromatic Hydrocarbons (PAH) and benzo (a) pyrene (BaP) as
    compounds of potential toxicological significance.
    New York City Report of five fire stations evaluated by Mine Safety Appliances (MSA) Research
    Corporation. Four methods of removing diesel fumes from the fire stations were tested.
    . Exhaust fans that provided twelve (12) air changes per hour were found to be ineffective.
    . Ceramic Filters installed in the diesel exhaust air stream removed particulates but did not
    address the gaseous emissions. The filter element needed to be removed from the vehicle
    for regeneration servicing.
    . Implementation of a more rigorous preventative maintenance schedule had only minimal
    improvements.
    . Source Capture with flex hose attached to the tailpipe was the only method to consider.
    Health Assessment Document for Diesel Emissions, Volume I of II , section Atmospheric
    Transformations of Primary Diesel Emissions by the United States Environmental Protection
    Agency (EPA). Some of the main points are:
    . "primary diesel emissions are a complex mixture containing thousands of organic and
    inorganic constituents in the gas and particulate phase."
    . Figure 3-2. shows the Polycyclic Aromatic Hydrocarbon (PAH ) distribution as a percentage
    of particles and vapor (gas). On an average, 75% of the PAH diesel fume is in a gas
    form.
    . Table 3-9. shows Benzene (which is a gas) still present after 18 days.


    If any one want the info I have PM me an I will e-mail it to you.
    Dave
    Last edited by Dave404; 01-27-2005 at 12:18 PM.

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    Default plymovent works well for us

    We have the Plymovent system and have had it for probably 10-12 years. While there have been issues with the trucks pulling the hose off (they have breakaway couplings) for the most part, we don't have to give it a second thought. I would recommend it and would be happy to show it to you if you are in the area.

    Stay safe.
    NCVFC17

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    NCVFC,
    We too have had an issue with the breakaway coupling in the 2 months we've had the system. In our older station, the trucks are parked at an angle and the hose got caught on the mirror of the other truck. This was due to the fact of not being used to having the hose connected. It popped off like it was supposed to, and easily went back together. After being in the station when the trucks fire up, I'm definately glad we went with the system, and not just a big fan like some members wanted to.
    The comments made by me are my opinions only, not of the Fire and EMS services I am affiliated with.

    I have lost my mind..has anyone seen it? it's not worth much..but it's mine

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    Are these the only problems you have experienced? From what I've heard, it sounds like a great system. I know salesmen will tell you anything to get a product sold so this information is great. Does one system take care of all of the trucks in one station? For example we have 4 trucks (3 engines, 1 light rescue) in one station with the station divided by one wall. The only problem I can forsee is our station is pretty small with limited area between the trucks.

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    Shouldn't be a problem JR,
    We have limited space between our trucks in our older station, and they have to be parked at an angle to get out the door. Going out isn't a problem with them, but backing in is. At that station we just back the trucks in normally and then hook it up. The only problem we had was as in my post above about the coupler.
    As for the system, there is a blower unit mounted outside the station with duct work on the ceiling going to the apparatus. A hose drops down and runs on a track to the apparatus. The hose attaches to a special exaust pipe retrofitted to the truck and is held on by a rubber boot that is filled with air. As the hose travels down the track, there is a release switch at the end that evacuates the air out of the boot. You can be going at a good clip comming out of the station and it will still release. I'll try to get pics taken of our 2 stations to send to you if you want. The system starts up when it senses presuure from exhaust in the hose, and shuts off 5 mins after it doesn't sense it anymore. There is also a manual override switch on it to either shut it off completey or keep it running.
    The comments made by me are my opinions only, not of the Fire and EMS services I am affiliated with.

    I have lost my mind..has anyone seen it? it's not worth much..but it's mine

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    Thanks Leuit. If you get the picts you can email them to me. I think my email is visible. Thanks again.

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    In 1997 we had an addition put onto our station which included a vehicle exhaust system. We opted for a Nederman system with the idea that if it works well in a busy FDNY station that it will be more than enough for our 600 call a year VOL house.

    Havn't had any problems, the system works flawlessly, and we would recommend it to anyone!

    Excellent company, excellent product, excellent customer service!
    Chris Shields
    Lieutenant / EMT
    Haz-Mat Technician
    East Syracuse Fire Dept
    Onondaga County, NY

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    One of our stations has an exhaust system (can't remember the name of it), but it sucks. No pun intended. The hoses are held onto the tailpipes by magnets and they don't stay.

    When our new station is built, it will have one, again not sure of the brand, but it doesn't have hoses. It has monitors all around the bay and when it senses hazardous fumes, it starts to ventilate.......
    The comments made by me are my opinions only. They DO NOT reflect the opinions of my employer(s). If you have an issue with something I may say, take it up with me, either by posting in the forums, emailing me through my profile, or PMing me through my profile.
    We are all adults so there is no need to act like a child........
    IACOJ

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    We also just installed the Plymovent system in Dec 2004. We have a single station with 4 double bays and 7 apparatus it was built in the 1960's with a one bay addition in 1978. We no longer smell like "fire station" when we go home and maintenance is much easier. We have yet to break a hose off and the only problem we have is that when installed the motor cover was put on inverted allowing moisture (rain) to get into the motor. The electrical upgrade was NOT included in the cost, which was 58K.
    IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
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    http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...60#post1137060post 115

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    Like Weruj1 said, the cost of upgrading the electrical service was not covered by the grant/install price here either. Our installers (not sure if it's a company thing or not) wanted it to be able to be run by the station generator. OUr current gens can't handle the load, but we were in the process of upgrading our back up power already. We had a problem the other day with ice getting into the blower unit outside, because the blower was mounted on the side, and the top of the vent was at the roofline, so water got in, but a piece of shrouding fixed that.
    The comments made by me are my opinions only, not of the Fire and EMS services I am affiliated with.

    I have lost my mind..has anyone seen it? it's not worth much..but it's mine

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    We are poor. We close door from living area to engine room, and open bay doors. Works very well. If you can't stand the cold, you don't need to have the door open anyway.

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    Actually firdawg - your not ok with just opening the door. Read back to my first reply with the info attached. Diesel particles settle into clothes - ie bunker gear - so when you are off shift and there is a call - its your stuff that is getting contaminated. Just because you cant see it doesnt mean it isnt their. You dont think microscopic diesel particulates cant make it into your living quarters - you are DEAD wrong!
    If you have had someone close to you die of cancer you might know how horrible it is! Dont make an example of yourself. With grants and money managment their is no reason for any department not to have a vehicle exhaust system!

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    Default exhaust system grant $$

    Does anyone have info on filing for grants to get exhaust systems installed? Also, anyone have info relating to standards established on exhaust in stations or studies that can be used in presentation to government entities? All help appreciated.

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    PLY MO VENT. And hook it up just prior to entering the bay...if possible

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    fyrfytr71 just do a general search on the effects of diesel and health - it will give you more than enough info. Also go to the Plymovent website or search out Nederman. Both sites have excellent info. Look up your local OH&S standards and then their is NFPA 1500.

    As for grants - cant help you there, hard enough to find them in the great white north!
    Dave
    -I have learned people will forget what you said,
    -People will forget what you did,
    -But people will never forget how you made them feel!

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    The plymovent company just completed installation and we're now being show how to use the system.

    Here are 2 pictures from the installation

    Plymovent Installation

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    Thumbs up

    We have the Plymovent system, best piece of equipment we ever purchased for our department in the 19 years I've been on.
    No more breathing in un-healthy fumes. Plymovent makes a good system

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    Does anyone have info on filing for grants to get exhaust systems installed? Also, anyone have info relating to standards established on exhaust in stations or studies that can be used in presentation to government entities? All help appreciated.
    Contact Plymovent, they provided us with all this info, and also had a sample of what info you could put in your FEMA grant request to help you fill it out.

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