1. #1
    Forum Member
    RLFD14's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    562

    Thumbs up Stabilization scenario

    A training discussion for all.....

    How do you stabilize this as presented?

    How about if there is some significant current pulling on the box?

    What if this were a tractor/trailer instead of a single chassis van?

    http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp.../ap/i_95_wreck

  2. #2
    Forum Member
    Rescue101's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Bridgton,Me USA
    Posts
    8,162

    Default

    Insufficent view of scene.Based on what I can see,I know how I'd do it but a wider angle view would be helpful.This is a bad scene,you have a FRP van lying on thin ice with no rear axle or tires.You have crews at the front on thin ice and I don't see any ropes or flotation gear.The stability of this scene is marginal at best.Wouldn't take much to put this "down river".Got anything else? T.C.

  3. #3
    Forum Member
    Squad1LT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    IL
    Posts
    215

    Default

    If you were close enough I would use the cable winch off the Squad to secure the cab, depending on the current I might think of tying off other cables or ropes with some other substantial object like a large tree. Then I would put some cribbing under the cab. If it were a tractor trailor I am not really familiar with how they hook up, but I am sure someone around on scene would be so I would look at the possibility of disconnecting the trailor from the cab.

  4. #4
    Forum Member
    MetalMedic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    The Home of Smucker's Jelly
    Posts
    1,266

    Default

    Big rig tow truck to the scene ASAP! Actually, I would like two of them or even three to control more than one point on the rig. A recovery wrecker should have sufficient lengths of cable to affect this stabilization, probably using block and tackle secure to trees and such until the evolution is done.

    I'd have the dive team on scene to assist with the connections and to be ready should things turn to poop. They would also be a good resource for advise on what the water might be doing that us lay people wouldn't recognize.

    Strict scene control with minimum access. Assign a safety officer to keep a roll of who is in the "red zone" since it is so close to the water hazard. Don't want someone to fall in and not be seen or heard because of ambient noise and other things happening.

    Rapid roll out of possible... hypothermia is going to be an issue for the victim.. and the rescuers.
    Richard Nester
    Orrville (OH) Fire Dept.

    "People don't care what you know... until they know that you care." - Scott Bolleter

  5. #5
    Forum Member
    nmfire's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Maryland (DC Suburb)
    Posts
    5,738

    Default

    It makes it a little easier since I saw the video of this on the news yesterday. The truck fliped off a bridge and landed down there. It doesn't appear there is vehicle access to where the truck is so you aren't going to get a wrecker to rescue down there. You would need to tie the truck off to trees if possible. Since the back of the truck is in the water and unstable, whatever I tie would be to the front of the chassis. Remember, you are only extricating from the cab which is largely exposed. It is quite likely you could saw the windshield out and pull the occupants right out.

    If the driver is pinned and requiring a lot of technical work, there is another option here. Get a cutting torch and chop the chassis off behind the cab. Who needs it. Crib the snot out of the cab and let the box and rear chassis go wherever it wants in the water.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

  6. #6
    Forum Member
    Rescue101's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Bridgton,Me USA
    Posts
    8,162

    Default

    Hehe NM, GOTCHA! Notice the fire hose stretched down over the bank? Well,if you can get a firehose down there it's a pretty safe bet you can get a wire rope off a tow truck down there.As far as recovering the vehicle,once you have secured the "victim" that unit will slide on the side like a sled.In fact,I'd prefer to slide it up the bank a bit further before I removed the driver.More working room.To those who suggested disconnecting the TT units, PLEASE DON'T! You complicate operations for the recovery operators and many times will endanger yourselves by doing so.This job fits my idea of a nice days work.And a profitable one too.Notice the twist in the box? This looks to be a FL 70-80 so on the low end of the spectrum the rig's toast.Do what you gotta do,but cutting it behind the cab WOULD NOT be my first choice(or last).T.C.

  7. #7
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Calgary
    Posts
    191

    Default

    In a situation where you where to far down or to far away with your rescue or tow trucks and had no large objects like trees or rocks to secure to, you could look at using pickets or steel stakes driven at 35% angles in to the ground then secure ratchets, heavy rope or chain from the first picket near the top to the bottom of the next picket, do that with 4 pickets tying them all together,then from the first picket secure the wreck with chain,heavy rope or what have you.
    Hopefully that would solve some of your stablization issues.
    Just another idea to keep in the toolbox.

  8. #8
    Forum Member
    nmfire's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Maryland (DC Suburb)
    Posts
    5,738

    Default

    AH, but a hoseline can snake up, down, and around anything. You can't stabalize a truck with a winch line that is wrapped around 4 sapplings, a pine tree, and boulder.
    Last edited by nmfire; 01-29-2005 at 10:18 AM.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

  9. #9
    Junior Member

    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    3

    Default

    Winch off the Rescue to the cab-Also utilize high lift jacks, air shores or parastruts to stabalize the cab. Not sure if much can be done to the trailer-Pic isnt the greatest

  10. #10
    Forum Member
    MetalMedic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    The Home of Smucker's Jelly
    Posts
    1,266

    Default

    Originally posted by nmfire
    The truck fliped off a bridge and landed down there. It doesn't appear there is vehicle access to where the truck is so you aren't going to get a wrecker to rescue down there.
    If the truck fell off a bridge, there is a good chance that a heavy wrecker would have sufficient cable to reach over the bridge and to a secure object on the level of the crashed truck where you could fix a block and tackle to begin to stabilize the whole mess. I would at least start with that plan until you found out it wasn't going to work, or until someone comes up with a better option. If the truck fell farther than the reach of your wrecker's cable... this is likely a body recovery.
    Richard Nester
    Orrville (OH) Fire Dept.

    "People don't care what you know... until they know that you care." - Scott Bolleter

  11. #11
    Forum Member
    Rescue101's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Bridgton,Me USA
    Posts
    8,162

    Default

    Good thoughts so far everybody. Firedog has a good idea if you are beyond the reach of existing equipment.Here,I don't believe you are. The average 20T + tow truck carries a minimum of 200' of wire rope. Most operators who do a lot of vehicle recovery will carry extra lengths for the "hard" jobs.As Metal suggests with a recovery vehicle you often have options of setup for the STABILIZATION side of the operation. We've been on jobs where we bring in heavy equipment to build a road so we can get on the riverbank.However,all this takes time,a luxury we don't have here. Lt106,this particular truck is a straight job,no trailer involved.And for the operational portion,it's a non issue, your life safety issue is in the cab(with the exception of Mexico).My concerns with this scenerio are a slick sided rig sitting on a angle on ice and snow.And the personnel standing on the ice/snow near open water at 32f.One point to remember,under ideal conditions(this isn't)the anchorability of a "rescue"vehicle is 80% of it's weight.So think it thru before you hook your one ton Chevy to this FL 70.If it "goes"you might as well.Let's explore some other options,ones you might carry. T.C.

  12. #12
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Calgary
    Posts
    191

    Default

    All Firemen should take the big Rig rescue course offered by Billy Leach,I took it in june of 2004 and was one of the most informative courses I have ever taken and worth every penny, one thing I realized was how much the towing companies are under utilized in all aspects of the extrication and recovery, you would be surprised how much these guys have to offer, I think we tend to forget that they do this on a daily basis.
    Thanks T.C. you guys put on a great show!
    randy Schmitz

  13. #13
    Forum Member
    Rescue101's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Bridgton,Me USA
    Posts
    8,162

    Default

    You're more than welcome Dog! You "earn"one of those steak dinners I taught you how to get from your friends yet? Remember you can do the same trick with a car or p/u takes less manpower and blocks but you can still "compound" and eat well.I trust you've been able to apply your education to the day to day tasks which is what this is all about? Oh,and if you've got any more interested the show's set to play on June 4&5th if I remember right.E-mail me if you need further. T.C.

  14. #14
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    647

    Default

    There are many variables within the specific situation, and we are limited to only one photo.

    The use of a recovery truck with sufficient wire rope, rigging, and anchorability may prove worthwhile in this incident. Without knowledge of the injured, entrappment, etc. it is difficult to provide specifics. Attaching above the COG would assist greatly in stabilization.

    Obviously the water aspect complicates the situation, however is reasonably manageable perhaps.
    Developer and Sr. Presenter, Team Xtreme
    BIG RIG RESCUE

  15. #15
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Key Largo, FL
    Posts
    22

    Default

    One more tool!!

    We had a call that was only slightly similar and it was a rescue attempt rather than a vehicle stabilization. A TT loaded w/gravel went off the highway into a shallow canal with a passenger vehicle under it. (Boy, wish I had the pics) I immediatly called for a heavy duty wrecker along with the biggest truck crane that could get there the fastest. The crane was able to lift and hold the cab (still attached) until the vehicle was removed from under it.
    Risk/benefit must guide you so we all go home afterward.

    PS The truck crane was useful also in putting rescuers on top of the truck with minimal risk to them.
    "Don't say much so when I do.."

    9/11 This Firefighter will never forget!

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Log in

Click here to log in or register