Fire Science Degree

[DennisTheMenace]

I would just like to say that it is obvious in our department which guys under the age of 35 have their four year degrees and which don't. The 35-45 year olds seem to have reached the equal level of maturity, but the guys with degrees are finding it easier to get promoted with the sheep skin in hand, and most of the guys over 45 are from an age when degrees were the exception and not the rule for most of society.

Wither it is easier to get started/hired with or without a degree is very debatable. But with only a few exceptions, the 24 year old with the degree is going to be more mature around the station, and will have the advantage in future contests for promotion over the guy with out the degree. Additionally if the guy with out the degree is going to want to be promote in the future and move his way up the ladder he is going to eventually need a degree, and it is easier to get when you are 18-22 then it will be from 30-50.

[MikeWard]

I have updated the posting I made about the various degrees available to emergency service folks. I have included weblinks to all of the colleges/universities/programs mentioned.

If your include ems and emergency management there are dozens of programs. Some of them are on-line and aimed at the working professional.

If you are interested, go to:

http://www.nvcc.edu/home/mward/

Click "Academic Advising Tidbits"
Opens to page with the NFA education/experience triangle

Click "A description of fire science degrees"

[Poodle]

I have been looking back through past post to try and figure out why George is sooo mad a Capt Bob. While it does seem no one is allowed to disagree or express a different point of view from Goerge, but he takes special care of following Capt Bob around to shoot spit balls at him. There seem to be dozens of examples where Capt Bob will post an opinion, or answer a question, and George comes right in with an attack on this retired guy, not on his opinion or advise, but his person. Why would somebody do this? I think I figured it out. He is jealous. Capt Bob retired from a career as a fireman, George is a teacher. Capt Bob is a positive thinker and does all of this stuff because he likes to help people, I’m sure he makes some money from selling stuff, but I’ll bet it’s not much. George seems to have a very aggressive, almost mean attitude when he posts. I really think he wishes he was Capt Bob.

George, if you want to report him, do it, don’t tell us, just do it. If you want to talk with him about how mad he makes you, why not send him a personal message, the rest of us are getting tired of it. Is this Firehouse.com, or “Don’t disagree with George.com”?

[DeputyChiefGonzo]

Originally posted by Poodle
I have been looking back through past post to try and figure out why George is sooo mad a Capt Bob. While it does seem no one is allowed to disagree or express a different point of view from Goerge, but he takes special care of following Capt Bob around to shoot spit balls at him. There seem to be dozens of examples where Capt Bob will post an opinion, or answer a question, and George comes right in with an attack on this retired guy, not on his opinion or advise, but his person. Why would somebody do this? I think I figured it out. He is jealous. Capt Bob retired from a career as a fireman, George is a teacher. Capt Bob is a positive thinker and does all of this stuff because he likes to help people, I’m sure he makes some money from selling stuff, but I’ll bet it’s not much. George seems to have a very aggressive, almost mean attitude when he posts. I really think he wishes he was Capt Bob.

George, if you want to report him, do it, don’t tell us, just do it. If you want to talk with him about how mad he makes you, why not send him a personal message, the rest of us are getting tired of it. Is this Firehouse.com, or “Don’t disagree with George.com”?

Capt. Bob posted some bad advice about buying a breathalyzer in response to a candidate worrying if a past DUI would affect his getting a job on a career FD. He has yet to retract it.

Capt. Bob isn't infallible, you know...

[ullrichk]

I missed the one about the breathalyzer, but I know George has had a long-running beef with Captain Bob's thinly disguised advertisements. His infomercials may be spot-on (and from what I have read I think most of his info is perfectly valid) but the TOS clearly states that the forums are not to be used for advertising. In this respect I believe George's arguments are well founded.

[Poodle]

As far as advertising goes, I could care less, if I start reading something I don't like I skip it.
But in regards to advise that may differ from yours, i.e. breathalyzers, why can't they be differing opinions, not right and wrong. I think the breathalyzer thing was good advise, as does the CHP and most DMV's from my research.
But, this is just my opinion, not right or wrong. If you have a different one, I respect that. Heck, we can't get guys to agree what to have for dinner in the station, let alone things that are important.

[HeavyRescueTech]

Originally posted by Poodle
I think I figured it out. He is jealous. Capt Bob retired from a career as a fireman, George is a teacher. Capt Bob is a positive thinker and does all of this stuff because he likes to help people, I’m sure he makes some money from selling stuff, but I’ll bet it’s not much. George seems to have a very aggressive, almost mean attitude when he posts. I really think he wishes he was Capt Bob.

hahahahaha!!! Poodle, that has to be one of the funniest statements I've ever read on these forums!!!! I think your relatively new here, so let me let you in on a little secret about our beloved Norm. He is one of the most arrogant, pig headed, and stubborn people I've ever met on FH.com. He loves to argue, and thinks he's never wrong. and he can be a tad abbrasive at times.

that being said, he isn't a teacher. He's a recently retired Arson Investigator, a Detective/Supervisor, a member of the Morris County Arson Task Force, and probably knows more about Arson and fire investigations than anyone who posts on these boards. he's also been a volunteer FF for 20 or so year, as well as has worked as an part-time EMT in an urban enviorment. He is also not a teacher, but rather an adjunct professor. adjunct professors are given that title based on their real world experience, not on their ability to research. just wanted to share that.

and capt. bob isn't giving advice out of the goodness of his heart, but rather in an effort to support his bussiness, eatstress.com. and that is why GWCFI is constantly complaining about (and he might have a valid claim, but that's up to the WT to make that determination).

that being said, if I could redo my college expeirnce, I would go to a community college for 2 years, and then transfer to a 4 year school. this way you get the name of a 4 year school with a much lower cost. I also liked living away from home, as it was more enjoyable than commuting (but i did like being able to come home once in a a while).

right now I think you can get away with just a HS diploma and maybe an associate degree, but in the future (ie, 3 to 10 years) you will need a bachelor's to get hired, and a masters to get promoted.

[MacInnis]

You know I don't have a problem with CaptBob as a person. Just hate the plug in for his compnay thats all.

DrP. Although you have a valid point about transfering from a community college to a 4 year becuase of cost. Let me say this to others out there. The reason I went to EKU first instead of attending the local community college in Maine was the price. Believe it or not it cost me the same to attend EKU as an out of state student then to attend the local place. So I figured in the long run it was cheaper. So for you that haven't gotten that far yet, you might want to look around the country, becuase the southern schools (at least when I was looking) offered the same but were cheaper.

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

Originally posted by Poodle
I have been looking back through past post to try and figure out why George is sooo mad a Capt Bob. While it does seem no one is allowed to disagree or express a different point of view from Goerge, but he takes special care of following Capt Bob around to shoot spit balls at him. There seem to be dozens of examples where Capt Bob will post an opinion, or answer a question, and George comes right in with an attack on this retired guy, not on his opinion or advise, but his person. Why would somebody do this? I think I figured it out. He is jealous. Capt Bob retired from a career as a fireman, George is a teacher. Capt Bob is a positive thinker and does all of this stuff because he likes to help people, I’m sure he makes some money from selling stuff, but I’ll bet it’s not much. George seems to have a very aggressive, almost mean attitude when he posts. I really think he wishes he was Capt Bob.

George, if you want to report him, do it, don’t tell us, just do it. If you want to talk with him about how mad he makes you, why not send him a personal message, the rest of us are getting tired of it. Is this Firehouse.com, or “Don’t disagree with George.com”?

Thank you for the kind words Dr. P.

Poodle. 11 whole posts and you know me? Take a hike.

There are only two things that I have to say.

1. I do not follow Cap'n Bobby around. I rarely post on any other forum u this one. I complained about him a year or so ago and I was advised that I was wrong. Since that time I have not commented on anything he does until he posts in a thread I am participating in. I, also, have no personal problem with Cap'n Bobby. He has every right in the world to run a business and to make money off his years of experience. I don't disagree with much of his advice. However, he has provided two stupid peices of advice in the last several weeks and I have and will call him on it.

2. I did report his TOS violations before I posted it. I posted that I did so the people that I respect on here (not you) would know that I was not afraid to stnad up to him. i have not heard back from the WT yet but I hope that Cap'n Bobby will no longer be able to use the forums as an infomercial.

That said, get ready for this thread to be shut down. That is what happens when you complain about Cap'n Bobby.

[CaptBob]

Press On

Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education alone will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent (all powerful).

Author Unknown

[JorieH]

Robby I hope you haven't abandoned your thread.
Back to the original topic:

Originally posted by RobbyJR307
Ok. Im thinking about going to college (in 6 months) for a fire science degree. I'v been talking with my father and he says that if I go for this nothing will come of it. So is it worth going to college for it and also what all will I get?

I'm not sure how exactly it is done out by you, but where I am many departments are requiring you have 60 hours college credit (equivalent to an associates degree(here).

The pros to having a degree is if it is required, you have it. If not that you are ahead of the group. It shows you are disciplined and are acceptale to learning; since you will be in training till at least the end of your career. All so if you are looking to become promoted, most likely a degree is required.

The cons, yes it takes time and money. The time can be shortened on how much of a class load you can handle and what kind of degree you are going for. The money can also be reduced by grants, scholarships, is there a different price for where you live? Also financial assistance.

Firecadet598

Not trying to stray off topic, but what kinds of classes are associated with a Fire Science degree. I am taking FFI and some wildland classes. Do they count towards a fire science degree or just a degree in fire fighting.

RobbyJR307:

598 I was just getting ready to ask that question also.

Yes, some of the classes can be transferable to other degrees. It is important to check whitch ones are, not all will be. Check with a counselor on what classes are needed and what can be used for both or other degrees. Also it wouldn't hurt to talk the the head of the fire division. When looking into schools some may have state fire marshal approved classes. Find out who is teaching them too and are the credits and classes transferable to other schools.

It is possible to test or work for a fire department while working on your degree. I'm currently an EMT-B, working on my fire science degree, looking for paramedic classes and testing for departments. If it does occur that I'm hired before completing my degree. I'll put the degree on hold while completing the requirements for the department.


Most important this is your life, your career, your decision. No one else can make this decision for you.

Please note my signature...

[JorieH]

A professor pulls out a 10 gallon bucket and places it on his desk. He asks his class "Is the bucket full?" The class responds "No." The professor then fills the bucket with large rocks till no more will fit, and asks again "Is the bucket full?" The class responds "Yes." "Wrong." the professor says and pours in small pebbles. The pebbles slide into the space between the rocks. Again the professor asks his class "Is the bucket full?" The class is quiet not sure what to say, but one responds "Yes", seeing as no more pebbles will fit. "No.", claims the professor; pulling out a large bag of sand and pours as much as the bucket will hold. "Is the bucket full now?" The class catching on then replies "No." "Good." states the professor. He then pours water into the bucket to the brim, and asks again "Is the bucket full?" The class assuring nothing else will fit answers "Yes." "Very good class, the bucket is now full." One student in the back asks "What is the point in this?" As the professor responds he says thus,

"This bucket is you life. If you fill it with the sand first you will never be able to put the rocks in. You need to identify what is most important to you, the large rocks, and then the pebbles, followed by the sand then the water. If you can not prioritize your life to what is the most important to the least you will never have a full life, just water."


I've only shared this story with those I care about, so to this I say to all fill your life!

[captstanm1]

Nice touch jorieH....and so very true.

The original intent of this thread was to ask "should I or should I not get my degree?" by the initiater. I think Jorie sums it up well. And I will add my 3 cents worth again.... GET your degree young man. There is a long story behind it, but not having my degree cost me a promotion and I left a department I had worked in for 20 years over it. Now, I will say I ended up better off in the end, because I was at a point there that I was not happy...but....I am finishing my degree now.

[JorieH]

Thank you Stan. ...and bump....

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

On 4/15, I visited UMd with my daughter, who is entering college in the fall as an English Ed major. (I would have announced it earlier, but the security requirements would have been prohibitive). She has been accepted at 5 colleges and is whittling down her list.

All I can say is WOW! What a beautiful facility. I was completely impressed. It's neat, clean, well maintained, the people, especially the kids, were very friendly and helpful and the entire visit was positive. The only negative experience? The traffic sucks!

Also, PG County Station 12 (right outside the U). We should take up a collection for them. It's a shame they have to live in such horrible conditions!

[Firegod32]

First, let me start with a few statements...

1. I am an OSU Alumni...and proud of it.

2. I work as an FPE for a Fortune 500 company and I volunteer "on the side" out of my Love for it.

3. I did not visit, nor do I know much about the "other schools" discussed elsewhere in this post. It is not my intention to "knock" or bad mouth them. They have all produced fine indivuals.

Now that being said, here is my rant.

Any degree from any school is simply one thing:

A piece of paper that indicates that one knows how to study and has a BASIC level of knowledge in the given field. Basic is the key term.

I also want to address the comments made about OSU and the instructors comment. This is a comment statement I have heard, even when I was there. They say that because the school is pushing more toward the engineering side. Most of the alumni in the field have given feedback as such. They are listening to their audience. Does that mean that the program will not be teaching skills that are vital to a firefighter? I think not. Thermodynamics, strength of materials, fire dynamics...need I say more? The other schools offer similar classes as well.

You have to look long term...do you want to be a pikeman for the rest of your career? Nothing wrong with that...but it is your decision. If you want to move up through administration, any degree will help. Get it now while you are young, do not have a family to work in, and can keep up with the course work.

I think the other 4 year schools are more on the side of the engineering field...though I cannot speak to the Kentucky school as I do not know anyone from there.

As far as the ABET accred. goes, this is an engineering accred., if your career track is in the fire service, I doubt this will help you.

On the cost issue, I (again) cannot speak of the other schools, but OSU was ranked one of the top 10 schools for cost in the US (by us news and world reports I believe). That was several years ago (96 ish?). I have not looked in some time. Don't care to.

I have several college buddies or fellow alums that are working for FD's nationwide...Plano; Dallas; Jefferson City, MO; to name a few. One is even the president of his local.

One other factor to look at is placement. Of my class (as well as the 2 previous classes), 100% placement. I have not looked into the placement rate since. Also look at internships. OSU students are eligible for (and do recieve) internships as freshmen.

Yes the fire station that the students were in did suck. It was one of the oldest buildings on campus. The program has now moved to the other side of campus and has a new building, lab and lots of toys. Likely one of the best sprinkler labs built.

Regardless of where you go, take a look at the stuff from eatstress.com. The author has been vocal enough in this post, but take a look at it early as the information is valuable in several areas of life, not just fire service exams.

Again, I am not slamming the other schools and do not wish to "burn" anyone...hopefully the origional "postee" will take the advice and apply it to whereever they go.

Man, this thread is almost as long as some of the "e-one vs pierce" debates...