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  1. #41
    Forum Member snowball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Just North of South Central


    Originally posted by Rescue101
    Snowball,I'm NOT trying to put words in anybodys My curiousity was what system you thought would beat air brakes to stop Fire apparatus because I know of no system that will,and I've worked around trucks all my life. T.C.
    I said they were not originally designed for the type of driving that emergency apparatus performs. Go back and read my posts. I agree with you that air brakes are the best stopping system that we have for heavy duty vehicles today. Yes IH did have an air system but that was only an air assist for the hydraulic brake system. It did not have an air compressor(you filled a tank)and it didnot work the same way as air brakes today. It supplied air for the power instead of evacuating it. Yes I've driven trucks with mechanical brakes (some of them even had mechanical "hand" brakes). Please read my posts, I'm notbashing air brakes.

  2. #42
    Forum Member Rescue101's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Bridgton,Me USA


    The system I'm speaking of was NOT air assisted hyd.It had brackets for the S cams like regular air brakes but could be fitted with EITHER hydraulic cylinders or air cylinders and this was back in the thirties.I did my best to read your posts but I found the statements within somewhat misleading that's why I asked for clarification.I guess we can leave it at that.Twenty ton is twenty ton and they won't stop on a dime.John Q public needs to learn and understand that and so do apparatus chauffers.Somewhere the lesson is getting lost. my view only. T.C.

  3. #43
    Sr. Information Officer NJFFSA16's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    25 NW of the GW

    Post Update

    Driver sues fire department over wreck

    KANSAS CITY, Mo. (AP) - A man who was injured in a collision
    with a Kansas City fire truck last September has filed suit.
    Fifty-year-old Terry Ray Toellner suffered internal injuries and
    fractures throughout the left side of his body. His suit claims the
    city, fire department officials and the truck driver were
    Firefighter Gerald McGowan was killed when the pumper truck
    collided with two cars and then struck a tree.
    Police have charged motorist LaDonna Davis with involuntary
    manslaughter and driving while her license was revoked. Police say
    she started the accident by failing to yield to the pumper and
    turning in front of it.
    The suit says the truck was overdue for maintenance on its
    brakes and that the driver was going too fast. A city attorney says
    the fire department didn't cause the accident.
    Proudly serving as the IACOJ Minister of Information & Propoganda!
    Be Safe! Lookouts-Awareness-Communications-Escape Routes-Safety Zones

    *Gathering Crust Since 1968*
    On the web at www.section2wildfire.com

  4. #44
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Penn Valley, Ca


    The problem as I see it here (barring the car) is the law. If you have to have extra training to be able to adjust brakes that is wrong. Here in Ca in order to obtain your driver's license you have to demonstrate the ability to measure and adjust brakes and it is your (the driver's) responsibilty to do so EVERY DAY. The manufacturers of automatic slack adjusters require that they be measured for proper operation once a week. All it takes is a 9/16 wrench, a tape measure and a helper. Maybe I say this too often but if this is beyond the ability of a driver to do, maybe that person should not be driving.

    I am not coming down on this fire department in any way here. I am just pointing out what appears to me as a gross miscalculation in a state law.

    It is like checking the air in the tires. It should be done each day. It boils down to how long is it OK to drive with a low tire? The answer is zero distance. Same with a misadjusted brake. Or an SCBA with a low cylinder or dead batteries. Anything with no margin for error should be checked daily.


  5. #45
    Forum Member jerrygarcia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004

    Default Woman Found Guilty In Fatal Fire Truck Wreck

    Just an update.

    Woman found guilty in fatal fire truck wreck.

    "Several firefighters testified that Davis' car was ahead of the fire truck on Blue Ridge Boulevard near 81st Terrace, and that, without using her blinker, Davis pulled into the path of the pumper. The fire truck hit Davis' car, then hit another car, jumped a curb, hit a wooden telephone pole and slammed into a tree.

    Investigators later discovered that the pumper had faulty brakes. However, prosecutors said even good brakes might not have prevented the fatal wreck."
    Thread Killer Extraordinaire!

  6. #46
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Dec 2000


    This is very good news for one side of a tragic story. I hope the family of Gerald McGowan will be able to find some closer and move on. Maybe the general public in the KC area will realize that when you see those lights and hear that siren and horns they need to pull over. Not just in KC but everywhere. Maybe this should be a subject taught in drivers ed. Some people think that if a vehicle has 4 wheels(or 6,8,or whatever) and an engine that it can stop in the same manner as a ford tempo.
    On a side note I am happy to see KCMO has over the past month been putting brand new rigs into service. KC is very lucky to be able to do this. They look nice and I hope they get good use out of them.

  7. #47
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2005


    A few years ago, a similar thing happened in Ct.(Waterbury, IIRC). Two Brothers were killed. Tragic all around, no one wins. Chief Dyer made a decision, and stuck by it.

    Without getting into this ****ing match, WE are our Brothers keepers. I am a Engine Co . Chauffeur, with a class "B" and air brake endorsement. The training I received driving a school bus part time (ugh!), has helped tremedously in my career. EVERY tour I bleed my brakes till the maxi kicks on.

    Start the rig, and time how long it takes for both systems to build up (usually, approx. 1 minute). Covering my brake, I put the rig in drive. Rig should NOT move. Did it one day in a Brooklyn engine I was detailed to (spare rig, BTW), and the rig moved 3-4 feet before it stopped. SERIOUS adjustment problems. O.O.S. until shops came and adjusted.

    Only thing they want us to change are headlights. Everything else is done by mechanics. Admittedly, I do change bulbs in the lightbars, they are for OUR safety as well. You can bet ur ***** I'll call for brakes before a light bulb in a lightbar.

    Many guys have discussed whether the job should issue CDL licenses. Pros and cons on that , IMO. But if a city can't maintain its rigs properly, then YOU as an operator should make sure it is good to go (to the best of your ability), and place it out of service. Then its the city's responsibility to get you back in service.

    Stay safe, Brothers. This KC episode is a bad experience for everybody. But in the fire service field, we usually correct ourselves after a Brother has been killed. That sucks.

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