1. #1
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    Default Horton Fan Clutches

    Any problems associated with installing a Horton Fan Clutch on a fire apparatus? I'm basically sick of the noise and long warm ups associated with our direct drive unit. The truck would be so much quieter driving around normally with a Horton.

    Our truck is a 2000 KME Excel MFD Rescue Pumper...Cummins ISC8.3L 330HP. Its been an excellent truck thus far except for the excess engine noise due to the fan.

    I understand the clutch would need logic to allow for lockup when pumping and when the air conditioning is on. I'm just not sure which model works well...spring, air lockup, electric lockup etc.

    Thanks!! Be safe!!!
    Last edited by fpvfd502; 02-07-2005 at 09:59 AM.
    Assistant Chief

  2. #2
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    allineedisu's Avatar
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    Exclamation

    You said it, KME. You should not be getting any noise from the fan. You need to seek and find the vendor who sold you this truck. Problems are only starting for the KME. You may need to have the vendor relocate to your town to keep this thing running. Bad choice in buy a truck - KME!

  3. #3
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    Default Fan Clutches

    There are several brand fan clutches out there. Corsair, Horton and a few others, but if you contact your Cummins distributor, they will be able to reccomend one for your engine that has been installed. I would lend that you have a bigger issue with engine enclosure construction than you do with the fan itself. If the engine doghouse and firewall is properly insulated and covered with "mechanically" fastened material, it should have decibel readings that allow for general conversation in the cab with yelling. "Most" manufacturers will publish the db levels int he cab and seem to average around 78-82 dba. Contact each and they will give you the engineering data, normally measured at the drivers head position, under full power (without warning devices operating). While the viscous drive fan will increase your horsepower output availability when not running (the fan drive robs engine power!), it certainly does nothing for overall "noise" in the cab. Shutting down the heart of your cooling system is certainly a band aide approach to doing it right to begin with! A fan clutch assembly that I recently had quoted for a new installation (not retrofit) was around $850. Just an opinion.

    Heres the link.... http://www.hortoninc.com/index_en.asp

    Good Luck and Stay Safe.

    GUY

  4. #4
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    Our KME is an excellent truck. We've had great service since new in November 2000. The fan noise is no different than any other direct drive fan in a late model. It has the proper sound deadener material and you can have a normal conversation while moving. I just think it could be even quiter than whats recommended for a max level. I've driven Smeals with HME cabs and they are basically the same. I just don't like what I consider more noise than necessary. Absolute silence would be perfect...I'll get as close as I can.

    I know the Hortons are popular on concrete mixers and many types of heavy duty units that see much more severe service than any fire apparatus. Honestly...fire apparatus are pampered vehicles compared to their care and environment they operate in. To me...putting a fan clutch on is making the cooling system more efficient and saving fuel.

    When the Horton kicks in...the noise will be the same. But I really feel it won't kick in all that much. I run my Dodge Cummins truck fanless all winter w/o a problem. Diesels tend to stay cool on their own unless loaded up. Even then our KME has 14 gallons of coolant to keep things in check. I believe a Horton will work great.

    Thanks for the links FYRTRUCKGUY2!

    Allineedisu...since you hate KME so much...your the one who need not buy one. We're happy with ours. We've had Pierce and EOne...and I prefer this KME. Not the slightest hint of a problem in 5 years...and I'm supposed to take your word that its JUNK?????? Give us all a break!!!
    Assistant Chief

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    A lot of departments have trouble with KME's. Maybe yours hasn't or will in time. Check with the large departments. Philly for one has has a lot of problems with their KME's. By the way they are about an hour to an hour and a half from KME's plant. The factory had been pretty busy working on them.

    My department has had every thing probably that ever was made, due the low bid concept.

    Other departments has experience problems with them as well. They may be good for a small department that doesn't make a lot of runs. They just do not hold up with heavy running and operation.

    I know you get what you pay for. Problems have came up with all the others as well.

    I think for the long term and heavy running, Seagrave and Pierce will out last all the others.
    Stay Safe and Well Out There....

    Always remembering 9-11-2001 and 343+ Brothers

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    I don't mind either EOne or Pierce. In fact...we had really wanted to go to another Pierce. Unfortunately...neither Pierce nor EOne were interested in bidding the truck. Pierce didn't submit a bid after picking up the specs...and EOne didn't even want the specs. Seagrave never returned our calls. Guess none of them like Indiana all that much.

    They were totally custom specs and were not "borrowed" or copied from someone elses design. I spent 5 years writing them after looking at dozens of trucks and making 5 FDIC trips.

    KME, Ferrara, Smeal and Central States were the only bidders. And KME was the 2nd low bid...not lowest.

    We just ordered a new pumper tanker...and guess what happened. Once again Pierce did nothing. This time their engineering guys said it wasn't build-able for them. A 1250/1500 commercial cab truck "not buildable"? WOW Pierce! Ferrara was happy to build this one and we'll be picking it up in April.

    I know Pierce is good...but if they never submit a bid...how am I supposed to get one?? True we only make 300-400 runs per year and our pumper don't make them all...so I cannot comment on how anything holds up when making 5000 runs per year. Heck...I've had the same turnouts since 1998...I keep them properly repaired, tested and cleaned...much like our KME.
    Last edited by fpvfd502; 02-09-2005 at 03:03 PM.
    Assistant Chief

  7. #7
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    Chief, IF you are having problems with your local Pierce dealer, CALL Pierce in Appleton. They would love to hear from you.

    They are always looking at dealers that don't always help out departments and bid on apparatus. There is no sense in any dealer not bidding, unless the department has spec's that are out of reason or the money that the department has projected for purchase isn't going to cover what the dealer thinks the bid will be.

    I have provided you a e mail address of a person in customer service at Pierce.

    Good luck.


    ckeenan@piercemfg.com
    Stay Safe and Well Out There....

    Always remembering 9-11-2001 and 343+ Brothers

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    Thanks...and I will write them. I never knew who to contact and didn't want to just send an email to sales@pierce. Like I said I would have never had a problem with Pierce. I just don't have time to play around with questions when other bids are coming in.

    Our specs were/are very simple. They have good features...but are simple really. In fact...I would say that any company who builds apparatus could do any of our trucks. We were very open to ideas and other ways of doing things. All were told this. Our specs were not written on stone tablets.

    Anyway thanks again.
    Assistant Chief

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