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  1. #1
    Forum Member BCmdepas3280's Avatar
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    Default NFPA 1710 How do You Comply ?

    The department I work for is looking for different ideas on how to comply with 1710 ... we have a 98% on time record for calls, but there is no way we come close to the 14 men on scene within 10 min standard. We have a 32 man department 24/72 schedule and MA is Volly departments who have there own problems.
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    Mike IAFF

    The beatings will continue until the morale improves


  2. #2
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    Mike,
    Since you are an IAFF local your president can request a GIS from the International. Once this is done it will give you an idea of what you need to improve to comply with NFPA 1710.

  3. #3
    MembersZone Subscriber fieldseng2's Avatar
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    I am also president of my local (1641). We had the GIS done about 2 yrs. ago thru the IAFF. It had a lot of useful information and pretty much backed up what we've been stating for years. I highly reccommend you request it. Contact your IAFF Dist VP and he can tell you what information you need to supply.

    Unfrotunately, it does not give suggestions HOW to comply with the standard. I don't know if this is what you are looking for Ltmdepas3280, but you can contact the IAFF and request a NFPA 1710 Campaign Guide package. It gives a lot of suggestions such as how to use the press and public for support as well as how to deal with any 'political barriers' you might have.

    While you're at it. I also suggest you request a Financial Analysis Study thru the IAFF. Again, contact your Dist VP for details.

    Both the GIS an the FA are one time free studies from the IAFF.

    fieldseng2

  4. #4
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    Default NFPA 1710

    http://www.seguinfirefighters.org

    I am the President of my local (L4122), we are however a combination department. It seems more and more on paper only, the roster lists maybe 12-14 active members, and maybe 1-2 will show up on a consistant basis,

    1710 does not apply, we fall under 1720 which changes everything, have any of you seen or heard of cases where understaffing has had legal impacts against the cities,

    We want the Chief to do away with the Vol. side, but that tradition runs real deep here, so we are spinning our wheels on that fight, but if we can show how combinations Vol. that are no-shows hurt a city, maybe that would light a fire...so to speak

    If you have any info, please let me know.

    Kenny

  5. #5
    Forum Member Station2Capt's Avatar
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    Use 1710 and a "Tool" to convince your City leaders that you need more staffing.
    A "Good" fire is not measured by how big it is, but by the fact that everyone is going home safe, and that we possibly learned something new about firefighting. Member:IACOJ

  6. #6
    Forum Member DeputyMarshal's Avatar
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    Default Re: NFPA 1710 How do You Comply ?

    Originally posted by Ltmdepas3280
    The department I work for is looking for different ideas on how to comply with 1710 ... we have a 98% on time record for calls, but there is no way we come close to the 14 men on scene within 10 min standard. We have a 32 man department 24/72 schedule and MA is Volly departments who have there own problems.
    Maybe I'm missing something, but the number of possible solution categories appears to be finite.

    32 men on a 24/72 schedule tells me you have 8 men on a shift.

    In order to get 14, and assuming there's no bizarre reason you can't get the on-duty crew on scene in 10 minutes, you're going to have to produce at least 6 men from somewhere else.

    That means you either:
    • hire 6 more men per shift
    • impose residency limits w/mandatory automatic callbacks
    • improve automatic mutual aid with neighboring department(s)
    • develop a suitably trained & active volunteer/POC auxilliary
    • accept that you will be doing a lot of exterior firefighting

    None of the possible solutions are going to be easy or popular and only the first is a sure thing...

  7. #7
    Forum Member BCmdepas3280's Avatar
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    Default Re: Re: NFPA 1710 How do You Comply ?

    Originally posted by DeputyMarshal

    That means you either:
    • hire 6 more men per shift

      Not going to happen!
    • impose residency limits w/mandatory automatic callbacks

      We have a call back system for working fires
    • improve automatic mutual aid with neighboring department(s)

      They have trouble handling thier own calls let alone M/A
    • develop a suitably trained & active volunteer/POC auxilliary

      Again, the draw would be from neighboring departments and they have their own problems
    • accept that you will be doing a lot of exterior firefighting

      Not an accecptable solution to the problem

    None of the possible solutions are going to be easy or popular and only the first is a sure thing...
    IACOJ Membership 2002
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    Mike IAFF

    The beatings will continue until the morale improves

  8. #8
    Forum Member DeputyMarshal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Re: Re: NFPA 1710 How do You Comply ?


    hire 6 more men per shift

    Not going to happen!
    Okay. Fair enough given that it would almost double the FD size. (expensive for the town; generally neutral effect on the union)


    impose residency limits w/mandatory automatic callbacks

    We have a call back system for working fires
    Probably not good enough to help with 1710 compliance. By the time you wait to determine if it's a worker, you've lost half of your 10 minute response deadline already.

    How many off-duty's typically respond? How many reside in town or close enough to make the 10 minute deadline if they're called back on all structure alarms?

    If you have lots of resident off-duty's willing to answer calls, this is probably your best compromise. (some expense to town; more hours/pay for union)


    improve automatic mutual aid with neighboring department(s)

    They have trouble handling thier own calls let alone M/A
    How many neighboring departments are you responding with? Do you call more than one at a time? Is there a formal mutual aid agreement in place? (cheapest for town but not particularly reliable; arguably neutral for union)


    develop a suitably trained & active volunteer/POC auxilliary

    Again, the draw would be from neighboring departments and they have their own problems
    Or start an auxilliary in your own town. (big task for town; clearly not the favored union alternative... )


    accept that you will be doing a lot of exterior firefighting

    Not an accecptable solution to the problem
    If none of the other options come to pass, it's the only alternative. The safety of firefighters comes first. If the town isn't willing to ensure a sufficient response, safety will dictate exterior attacks more often. (uncomfortable solution on both sides; should be endorsed by the union if no other provision for manpower is made)

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