Why register? ...To Enhance Your Experience
+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 12 of 12
  1. #1
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Yates County, NY
    Posts
    53

    Question 30 min. vs. 60 min air cylinders

    Greetings to all!

    I like to get some feedback from this group. We need to upgrade our airpacks for a variety of reasons. I'm posing the question to our department and to all of you. 30 min. cylinders seem to be the norm in our county with the exception of one department that has a hazmat team. What is this forums opinion on the 60 min. cylinders.

    Filling the higher pressure cylinders is not a problem and my perspective is not to encourage or force anyone to stay in an interior attack longer than they can handle, SOG's can be re-written to reflect that. I'm curious about providing our folks with a larger supply of air in case of a mayday situation. Our department follows 2 in/2 out and we have RIT teams that we can call in for support for our fires when we're dedicating our manpower to interior work. We are a rural all volunteer dept., county, area. I realize that more air isn't the cure all. I'm just wondering that since we have to buy new packs anyway, if this wouldn't help provide our folks with a little added protection.

    Thank you in advance for your help and opinions. Stay Safe!!
    Stay Safe!

    Scott
    Bellona Vol. Fire Co.

    "There are three kinds of people, those that learn by reading; the few that learn by observation and the ones that have to pee on the electric fence for themselves." - anon.


  2. #2
    Forum Member SpartanGuy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    489

    Default

    We're a residential/commercial district with a LOT of new development(commercial and residential. I just found out they're building 232 new apartment units divided amongst 40 buildings today..) We have 30 minute cylinders on all of our trucks except our heavy rescue. The heavy rescue carries a supply of 20 60 minute airpacks for usage in our malls, highrises, and large stores(like the Super Wal-Mart).

    Your point is valid, but I'd probably just stick with the smaller and slightly lighter 30 minute bottles, especially if you have a functional, effective RIT team..

    Just me, though.
    "Captain 1 to control, retone this as a structure and notify the fire chief...."

    Safety is no accident.

  3. #3
    Forum Member firenresq77's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    Northwest Ohio
    Posts
    5,213

    Default

    Or split it down the middle and go with 45 minute bottles........
    The comments made by me are my opinions only. They DO NOT reflect the opinions of my employer(s). If you have an issue with something I may say, take it up with me, either by posting in the forums, emailing me through my profile, or PMing me through my profile.
    We are all adults so there is no need to act like a child........
    IACOJ

  4. #4
    MembersZone Subscriber Firefighter1219's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Concord, Havana, FL USA
    Posts
    1,356

    Default

    The bigger the bottle, the more fatigued the individual firefigher will become. A bigger bottle does have some advantages. You can work longer with a bigger bottle. However, the longer you work, the more fatigued you will become.

    If you have a current SOP that states you must suck down two 30 minute bottles before going to rehab, then you may have to change it if you upgrade to 45 or 60 minute bottles. I can't imagine anyone trying to work through two 60 minute bottles before taking a break.

    My departmet currently utilizes 45 minute bottles most of the time. When we ordered our new pack, we got seventeen 30 minute bottles and seventeen 45 minute bottles. I personally prefer the 45 minute bottles becuase I like being able to work a little longer before going to switch out bottles. Sometimes you need the extra time to finish the current job without having to leave it. Extra time is nice with a longer job, especailly if you know you're gonna have to come back and finish it if you run out of air. If you don't have enough people and run out of air while working on one task, you will have to try to switch out real quick and get back in. A larger bottle can prevent that. It does get a little tiresome when going through 2 bottles.

    You have to do a cost benefit analysis with your people to find out what will work best for your unique situation. Every department is different, and what one person may say here might not mean much in your current situation.
    TO/EMT CVFD (1219)
    EMT GEMS
    CPT/EMT MVFD
    ---------------------------------------------------
    Proud Member of IACOJ
    ---------------------------------------------------
    9-11-01 Never Forget FDNY 343

  5. #5
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    158

    Default

    Another advantage (in my opinion) is if you have a larger bottle then people would be more inclined to wear the SCBA when it is not "noticably" needed. Situations that come to mind are, roof work, overhaul (before a gas meter has been used to "ok" the area for unprotected work), and ventilation operations. I know in my area I am pressing hard (with little luck) for a 4500 45 or 60 minute setup. Given are area, do I think our guys could use a full 60 minutes, doubtful, because we are mainly residential with nothing over 2 and half stories...if you can't find a victim or get a knockdown in 60 minutes you aren't going to achieve either. On the other side with 60 minutes of air, you get stuck, you have a lot more "wiggle room" than if running our old 30 minute bottles (which are about as heavy as a pair of 4500 60 minute packs). Another point is that if you have a 30 minute bottle in a RIT situation and your guy is down 15 minutes in and his low air is chatterin away...guess what, you only have 15 minutes of air for both of you.
    Last edited by ElChup175; 02-12-2005 at 11:53 PM.

  6. #6
    dazed and confused Resq14's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    1,993

    Default

    I know we've discussed this on here before, so a search on here should turn it up.

    Over on rapidintervention.com, it's also been discussed at length.
    http://www.rapidintervention.com/for...ht=minute+scba
    God Bless America!Remember all have given some, but some have given all.
    Google Is Your Friend™Helpful forum tip - a "must see" if you're new here
    Click this to search FH Forums!

  7. #7
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Posts
    868

    Default

    Go with the 45min cylinders and change your SOP's so that firefighters must exit and report back into command with 800PSI still left in their cylinders - any less and they get a kick up the rear. It works down here(Australia) real well and gives you sufficient working time with a safety margin in case things turn bad.
    Busy polishing the stacked tips on the deckgun of I.A.C.O.J. Engine#1

    ...and before you ask - YES I have done a Bloody SEARCH!

  8. #8
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    KENTUCKY
    Posts
    410

    Default

    From the perspective of one who is on the double yellow line, trying to make sure everyone goes home, I'm not too big on the 60 min bottles. If someone gets in trouble, they can be beyond help by the time you realize that they should have been out to change a cylinder. With the 30 min. bottle, I know I should be seeing everyone at 15-20 min intervals.
    Just my humble opinion.

  9. #9
    Forum Member Weruj1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    NW Ohio
    Posts
    7,857
    IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
    Pardon me sir.. .....but I believe we are all over here !
    ATTENTION ALL SHOPPERS: Will the dead horse please report to the forums.(thanks Motown)
    RAY WAS HERE 08/28/05
    LETHA' FOREVA' ! 010607
    I'm sorry, I haven't been paying much attention for the last 3 hours.....what were we discussing?
    "but I guarentee you I will FF your arse off" from>
    http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...60#post1137060post 115

  10. #10
    MembersZone Subscriber npfd801's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Somewhere in Illinois
    Posts
    2,220

    Default

    Unless its for a HAZMAT situation, or for a RIT bag, I would stay away from the hour bottles. Part of the advantage of using the high pressure bottles is the smaller size. 30 minute high pressure bottles are fantastic to wear, and I think the short break needed to get a new bottle is well worth it.

    Let's see, last fire I was on I entered the structure, waited for ventilation while assisting another guy on the nozzle as he hit more fire in the garage while we were in the kitchen. Once the vent hole was cut, I pulled quite a bit of ceiling while we hit the fire that had extended into the attic, and then went after some hot spots in the kitchen and garage. Did I get 30 minutes out of my bottle? Maybe half that. But we busted out butts, got the job knocked, and turned it over to someone else while we changed bottles. After the rush and excitement, we needed to step away for a minute just to move into salvage and overhaul mode. No one on that line had any business being in there the twice as long that an hour bottle would have allowed.

    Get the lighter packs, and in my opinion, you'll be much more efficient with two bottles at 30 minutes each than you would with 60 at once.

  11. #11
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    56

    Default

    Originally posted by firenresq77
    Or split it down the middle and go with 45 minute bottles........
    We have the 45 min bottles & they are just right IMHO

  12. #12
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Posts
    868

    Default

    Another consideration that often is overlooked - how are you for on-scene refilling? If your mobile refilling station is going to struggle to continously fill a reasonable number of cylinders to 4500psi then I would go with the 45's rather than the 30's. A 4500psi 45 minute cylinder that is only re-filled to 3500psi gives you a reasonable duration still. A 30 minute cylinder only re-filled to 3500psi isn't a real good proposition (have been in that situation and it wasn't too good).

    Personally I like the 45 minute cylinders.
    Busy polishing the stacked tips on the deckgun of I.A.C.O.J. Engine#1

    ...and before you ask - YES I have done a Bloody SEARCH!

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts