1. #1
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    Default Triple Layer Load

    I would like to hear about the good and bad of the triple layer load.

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    Default triple layer

    Our Apparatus by SOP's have to have at least 2 of 3 crosslays (1 3/4 in.) triple layered.The other one is usually a flat lay. I like it for most applications. However it has it's cons also.
    The triple layer will deploy in short distances typically without getting all tangled up or ending up in a pile. If deployed properly you can lay it all out in on the way to the front door without needing help to get a lot of kinks out. It takes a little coordination to load back up. However the flat lay is a better lay to have if you need to disconnect hose to make a shorter lay. These are just some of the pros and cons I could think of. I am sure there are more.

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    I worked in a dept for years that used this load. Not sure if they still do, I imagine so. However.

    Advantages:
    -Unloads entire bed with 1/3rd the length of the entire stretch.

    Works decently with 3 lenghts or less. 4 and over gets a little hairy.

    Disadvantages:

    -Must unload entire bed to use any of it. (if you want only 3 lengths out of 6 total, the whole thing must come off)

    Leaves many kinks as it comes off with folds in it and they are at either end of the stretch. Also the hose sometimes gets tangled.

    Nozzle man stretches hose and when it is fully unloaded...all he has in his hand is the nozzle. The Nozzle man should have at least one length in hand so once at area of operation he has line that can be fed in for the advance.

    -Poor deployment around obstacles, cars, trees.

    -Doesn't deploy well in cramped, or limited space. Needs adequate space to initially deploy.

    -Difficult to re-pack in cramped areas or with limited space perpendicular to the apparatus. ie-Expressways close buildings.

    FTM-PTB

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    Default

    My current department is the only one in our county (17 depts/60 stations) not useing the triple (we have a lot of buildings with stairs so we use a shoulder load). The department I used to work for used it, and we experianced most of the problems FFFRED mentioned.
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    We use the triple lay, and I like it. About the only problems we have is getting everyone to learn how to load it and the fact that you really can't load on scene very easily. I have loaded a 150' triple lay by myself before, but it's not any fun You need about 3-4 people to do it quickly. I love to be able to walk 50 feet and have the whole load on the ground.
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    Talking Jeesh.................

    You guys make things too complicated. Hook one end of the hose to the discharge. Flake the hose in the bed, one fold on top of another. When you get enough hose on, put a nozzle on the end, lay the nozzle on top of the hose. Pull up in front of the building, grab the nozzle and run. The hose WILL follow you. The hose WILL stop when you have pulled all of it off the bed.
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    Default

    That works for me - no fancy stuff that is going to stuff up on you in the middle of the night. Down here we don't hook up to the discharge before we flake the hose into the bed - instead we just pull as much as we need and then break it and hook up (we have to as the hose comes off the back but the discharges are at the sides).

    Weird thing is - this is the perfect set up for a place that runs truck companies because the engine/pumper has to pull past the fire building leaving room for the truck - but here in Australia we don't run truck companies. Yet in the U.S. where you run truck companies the hose often comes off the side (crosslay) so the natural reaction is to pull up in front of the fire building. I haven't quite figured out the logic behind this phenomenom! Anyone want to swap engines?
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    We have the triple layer on both engines: rear 2 1/2" preconnect. Works good for us.
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    Thumbs down

    So basically in PG it's just run and hope for the best? Good plan.

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    Default

    triple layer load is terrible in tight urban environs. a minuteman load or a flat load will serve you the best under these conditions.

    triple layers MUST have at least have an area three times the length of the hose bed to deploy properly. We RARELY have that luxury.

    how do i know this? we tried this load on some busy companies for about 6 months. we now are back to all flat loads....

    kinking, spaghetti, knots all occurred. think very carefully before changing your current config.

    my personal opinion is minuteman loads for all crosslays and flat loads for all deadloads....
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    Default

    Originally posted by OFD226

    triple layers MUST have at least have an area three times the length of the hose bed to deploy properly.
    In order to be properly deployed the triple-layer load requires a space one third the total length of the hose for the initial pull irrespective of the hose bed length. At that point there should be only two potential kinks - and one of those should be in your hand.
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    In my opinion, the cons outweight the pros. I think it's a PITA.

    Flat lay, or minuteman get my vote.
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    Thumbs up Its a decent load

    My department use to use it for years and why we changed to another load I have no idea. From my perperspective it's far superior to what we do now. I guess someone (with clout) was less than recpetive on learning how to load it. Advantages far outweigh any disadvantages in my humble opinion.

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    Question, does anyone that uses the Triple Load stretch it dry into buildings? or is it flaked out and charged outside? I ask this as to go along with what FFFred alluded to earlier, in that the nozzle man should have some hose with him to maneuver.

    We do a flat load with the last fold going through the nozzle bale, leaves the nozzle man with about 20'.
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    I never did like the hose-thru-bale thing. In the event that the hose is charged prematurely (yes, it can happen ) the bale is wedged tight.

    My current department no longer uses the triple layer load, but I have stretched dry into buildings with them. In these cases the nozzleman doesn't get much free hose.

    Out of curiosity, does anyone use the triple for anything larger than 1 3/4? We flat load our 2 1/2, preconnected and hosebed, and never really considered anything else.
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    Default Me...

    I never cared for the "triple fold" load. Re-loading it is a
    pain.

    Please give a standard flatload with the nozzle in the
    MIDDLE. Then it can be shoulder loaded and pulled from
    either side of the truck.

    Simple baby. Simple.

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    Default Re: Me...

    Originally posted by CALFFBOU
    I never cared for the "triple fold" load. Re-loading it is a
    pain.

    Please give a standard flatload with the nozzle in the
    MIDDLE. Then it can be shoulder loaded and pulled from
    either side of the truck.

    Simple baby. Simple.
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    Default

    Currently my department uses a combination of the falt load and the triple layer. On preconnect triple layer the other flat load. We also have preconnected trash lines on the front bumper for shorter distances. Works out quite well

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    While we are talking hose loads, how many of us that have more than 200-300 feet of attack line in a bed increase the diameter to 2.5" past this distance to reduce friction loss on long attack line stretches? (ie the first 4-6 lengths are 1.5 or 1.75 but then the rest behind that are 2.5")
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    Originally posted by stillPSFB
    While we are talking hose loads, how many of us that have more than 200-300 feet of attack line in a bed increase the diameter to 2.5" past this distance to reduce friction loss on long attack line stretches? (ie the first 4-6 lengths are 1.5 or 1.75 but then the rest behind that are 2.5")
    If we're going in, and we have to make a long drag, we want the big hose, and big water. We need to go 400 feet in? 500 feet in? You're taking in 2.5" line all the way.

    Would hate to see a crew have to jack that hose outta there, and jack more in because they need more water..
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    Originally posted by stillPSFB
    While we are talking hose loads, how many of us that have more than 200-300 feet of attack line in a bed increase the diameter to 2.5" past this distance to reduce friction loss on long attack line stretches? (ie the first 4-6 lengths are 1.5 or 1.75 but then the rest behind that are 2.5")

    We recently added a "day line" to our truck. Something like 150' of 2.5" line with a playpipe on the end and then 150' of 1.5" line with a adjustable nozzle. 1.5" line can be removed easily so the playpipe with a straight bore nozzle can be used. This also allows for the 1.5" Portion to be changed as needed without having to shut down at the truck.
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    stillPSFB, we have 1 line like that on the back of 1 engine. 150' of 1 3/4" at the end of 500' of 2 1/2". We are taking it off as we have gone to 2 bundles of 100' 1 3/4" line that go to a wye at the end of a 2 1/2". We are going away from the 1 single line as it only left us with that 1 single line. Our first engine will have nozzleman grab 1 100' bundle, backup and door positions will grab the 2 1/2 and start stretching it. All 3 will stop near the fire building, door man will connect the 2 1/2 and the bundle, nozzle and backup will flake out the bundle and attack fire. 2nd engine coming in will do the same setup but not charge theirs. Depending on the situation, they then may use the second bundle on the first line or they may charge the second line and use theirs. These lines are only used at a small area of my town where we can't get the trucks closer to the buildings, about 400' from the street, in sand, 2 story at most. It works for us after lots of testing of different ideas.
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    Talking Triple layer

    I have been very happy with the triple layer load. It deploys quickly and can be charged as soon as it hits the ground. It can also be loaded in half the time if whoever is loading it knows how. The only problem with the triple layer in my department is that some members don't know how to load it. However I can see how some of the city guys wouldn't like it, we work in a more rural environment and generally have plenty of room.

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    it's really not about the type of hose load, it is all about a disciplined deployment, and adequate staffing. It should be agreed that nothing good on the fireground will take place until the engine gets water on the seat of the fire (that's right you spectators with gear-Truckies), so every effort by enough personnel should be to get the line stretched, flaked out, kink-free, and as close to the tactical point of entry for the nozzle team as possible. Unless you're running 2 man engine's and the nozzleman is stretching alone, the type of load should really no be of huge concern. I agree with one of the previous writers, don't over think it. As long as you're not one of those yank the nozzle (only) and run like hell nozzlemen, the hose load shouldn't make or break your operation. My experience is that the triple layer load, and the minuteman load are great in textbooks (and flat wide open parking lots), but the bottom line is this. They suck after the first bend or turn, fence post, stairwell, or any other real obstacle encountered in real world firefighting. Put the hose on the crosslay, overhang every 50 feet 12 inches so the nozzle team can shoulder it, take a load on your shoulder one at a time, and stretch. And even in a perfect scenario, you're still going to wind up with a pile of hose at the point of entry, that at least the nozzleman can manage. Just dont have a pile laying at bottom of the pumper running board, as this tends to hurt our guys, and makes for parking lots. I'm new to this forum scene, but i still get a kick out of how we over-engineer some of the simpler "artistic" aspects of this job.

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    AMEN!

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