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  1. #1
    Forum Member DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
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    Default Advice to a pup..

    I thought I would share this email I received from Dragonslayer22 and my reply to him.

    i might not be able to spell and I might not have the correct grammer that obviously your department uses. But you know what I bet you I am the only 17 year old junior firefighter that is North Carolina 1 and 2 certified and also I have 2 more classes to be Rescue Tech. certified. Medical First Responder and also working on my D/O classes. Speak again smart ***. Just cuause I am not an old timer that has been around forever doesn't mean you don't give them a chance people make mistakes MOVE ON [/quote]

    My reply...

    Whether you know it or not, you are judged by the way you speak and write. It might not matter to you now, but in the future, when you decide if you want to make firefighting a career and decide to climb the ladder to gain higher rank, it will matter.

    In this business...spelling is crucial...especiallly when dealing with hazardous materials (being one letter off in spelling can lead to dramatic consequences... and not good ones), writing a list of medications to give to the paramedics when they arrive (imagine being held responsible for someone's death because you didn't correctly spell or pronounce the name of a drug right!), or having being called into court to testify at a proceeding and they pull up your narratives and fire incident reports as part of the evidence chain (been there, done that, and attorneys will attack your credibility like a school of hungry barracudas!)

    Grammar is also important. As you climb the ranks, you will be required to write reports,resumes for promotions, applications for grants and such and believe me, those who do the hiring, approve promotions and approve grants do take spelling and grammar under consideration!

    You are 17... probably still in high school and have an awful lot of growing up to do.

    I'm not being a smart ***... I am just concerned about where the next generation of the fire service is headed to. The "PC crowd" has insisted we "dumb down" the requirements both physically and academically to allow more people the opportunity to become firefighters, yet we are dealing with more complex buildings, hazardous materials, vehicles and fire conditions in the incidents we respond to.

    You told me to move on... I suggest you move up, grow up and take the advice of those who have been doing the job when you were just two separate biological components inside of Mommy and Daddy!

    Feel free to add your 2 cents worth!
    Last edited by CaptainGonzo; 02-17-2005 at 11:58 AM.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY


  2. #2
    Forum Member PFire23's Avatar
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    I can see the same thing within this young man that I find lacking in most other young people these days ....... a lack of

    R-E-S-P-E-C-T

    I don't know about any of you, but I was always taught to respect my elders, to respect those who had been there before, longer, had more experience........ whatever, you get the idea. The lack of respect I see in young people today sickens me. I see it at work, I see it in the classes I instruct, I see it in the schools ..... it's awful.

    Gonz, I think your reply was right on the money. Whether or not this young man takes your advice to heart is another matter. Judging by the tone of his letter he seems to think that his "credentials" place him "above" the rest of the pack ....... how does that go..... 2 & 20???
    To the world you might be one person, but to one person you just might be the world.

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  3. #3
    Forum Member DennisTheMenace's Avatar
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    Originally posted by PFire23
    I can see the same thing within this young man that I find lacking in most other young people these days ....... a lack of

    R-E-S-P-E-C-T

    I don't know about any of you, but I was always taught to respect my elders, to respect those who had been there before, longer, had more experience........ whatever, you get the idea. The lack of respect I see in young people today sickens me. I see it at work, I see it in the classes I instruct, I see it in the schools ..... it's awful.
    Same sort of thing has been said by those of an older age for the last 10,000 years!
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    LOL....dont you people have anything else to do besides b*tch about our b*tching?

  4. #4
    Forum Member Weruj1's Avatar
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    Thumbs down Another teeenage superhero !

    Good advice ..............I wonder if he can drive an ambulance too ?
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  5. #5
    Forum Member PFire23's Avatar
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    Dennis,

    I agree with you, however, with that being said, I think this up and coming generation is WORSE than ever. It amazes me how very little regard these young people seem to have for the older generations. They are very much "ME" oriented, and it's sad.
    To the world you might be one person, but to one person you just might be the world.

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  6. #6
    Forum Member stm4710's Avatar
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    Listen to captain gonzo.

    Ever since I stopped trying to butt heads with him constantly and opened my ears up its amazeing what I learned and how my job performance has improved.


    It truly is amazeing what you hear when you listen.
    I dont suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.

  7. #7
    MembersZone Subscriber sbfdco1's Avatar
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    I'm afraid I cannot add anything additional then what was stated above. I too agree that Generation X has a whole lot of growing up to do. And yes I am, in shame, from this generation. It seems to be all about "me" and instant gratification. Where is the blood sweat and tears?

    To Capt. Gonzo et all,

    Thanks for your patience, and discipline, do not stop leading by example.

    To Generation X,

    Mom and Dad aren't going to be around forever to bail you out, time to grow up and start working for your place on the dance floor.

    If the shoe fits ...
    Jim
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  8. #8
    MembersZone Subscriber dmleblanc's Avatar
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    I agree, but didn't we all go through this at some point? Personally, I'm often amazed at how much my dad has learned since I was a teenager.....


    I couldn't agree more, Cap....It doesn't matter how good you are on the nozzle or what kind of kick-***** firefighter you are at the academy or in the field (well, actually, that matters too...), but you're going to go nowhere if you're not computer literate, if you can't write a concise and accurate report, if you can't communicate effectively in writing. I know I'm not a career firefighter, but in ANY field of work, when it comes to promotions, you are going to be judged on these skills. And when it comes to training and education, which we ALL know is a bigger part of the fire service today than it ever has been before, if you do not posess these skills you will struggle.....

    I know that some people who post here use atrocious grammar and spelling, and if you point it out to them they'll say, "Sure, but if I was writing something IMPORTANT I'd proofread it". I say that it's a habit you need to develop, a skill that needs to be honed until it comes naturally. I've been known to edit a post because after posting I realized I'd misspelled something. I don't know, maybe I'm anal like that, but I think a person's communication skills are an important indication of their overall abilities.
    Last edited by dmleblanc; 02-17-2005 at 12:00 PM.
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  9. #9
    Forum Member EastKyFF's Avatar
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    Default

    Man, the arrogant tone of that e-mail kills me. I would have never talked to an elder like that.

    Training sets up the forms. Experience pours the concrete. Experience has to wait on training, but it still has to come.

    Pup, you have acres to learn.
    "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.”
    --General James Mattis, USMC


  10. #10
    dazed and confused Resq14's Avatar
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    Default

    Originally posted by EastKyFF
    Man, the arrogant tone of that e-mail kills me. I would have never talked to an elder like that.
    Me neither. CaptG showed considerable diplomacy in his reply. I don't know if I could've.
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  11. #11
    Forum Member fftrainer's Avatar
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    Default

    It's amazing how this comes up so often with todays 'youth' (not a judge to all of you, but remember you are often judged by your biggest idiot)

    Between my Fire Service dealings with new members, being an instructor, etc and my wife working in a school district it is amazing how kids today take everything so personal when it comes to criticism but on the other hand refuse to be held personally accountable for their actions... mom and dad bail them out if they run their yap too much!

    I received a similar PM from a junior about a year ago after I criticized his spelling and grammar but I blew it off because he was obviously not up for listening only for arguing. Everybody is so hyped up on I have this certification and that certification, etc but damn if you can't communicate what the heck good is every certificate in the world? Ok so a fire doesn't know your vocab, spelling or grammar are lousy, but the review board does when it is time for promotion. The city officials do when its time to turn in your budget or make a presentation for new equipment or new firefighters, I just don't get it, every day the simple basic things are overlooked. It's the same as the guys in FF1... get the irons, get the rabbit tool, get something to force this door when all along it was unlocked and all you had to do was turn the handle.

    On a side subject... I find it hard to believe that a 17 year old can be FF1 and FF2 certified? Can't speak for NC, but as far as I know it wouldn't happen in NJ. Labor law says you must be 18 to operate power tools on a job and I believe to wear an SCBA... anybody from NC care to chime in on this aspect or will the high and powerful researcher NJFFSA16 could dig it up on our behalf?

  12. #12
    Disillusioned Subscriber Steamer's Avatar
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    I happened to run across this in one of Dragonslayer22's posts in another thread:
    First off don't be a smart *** to a senior member. (I added the bold - Steamer) Second OSHA doesn't make the determination on weather or not juniors/explorers respond to calls during what time. Check your fire department SOG/SOP they make the call on that one.
    In the words of Alanis Morisette, Isn't it ironic?
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  13. #13
    Forum Member HeavyRescueTech's Avatar
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    Captain Gonzo,
    Can I request that you edit the original post, to remove the sender's e-mail address and username? while I understand your point, there is no need to openly embarrass a person. the description he gives gets your point across.

    The other thing is that what someone posts online doesn't always mean they type like that in the bussiness world. same as how someone types on AIM or any chat program. There have actually been articles written about it. I'll be the first to admit that I make spelling errors, and when I post here, the first letter of my sentances aren't always capitalized. however, if I am writing something to my boss, or a coworker, or any thing that is bussiness related, you can be assured that is is gramatically correct and has been spell checked.

    That being said, whether you are two years in, or 20 years in, you still should be continuing to learn. and many of those 2 year vets will contines to make the same mistakes that the 20 years vets made 18 years ago. even though the 20 year vets tell them not too do it that way, they will still try and fail for themselves. if you want further proof, just check out the explorer forum.

    just think of it this way, in 2 years, he'll either grow out of it, or end up looking for another line of work. Capt. G, well said, maybe he will take your advice, or he will ignore it, and look back in 5 years and think how much better he would be if he had taken your advice.
    Last edited by DrParasite; 02-17-2005 at 11:59 AM.
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  14. #14
    dazed and confused Resq14's Avatar
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    (the thread, for those who hadn't already seen it)
    http://cms.firehouse.com/forums2/sho...threadid=66693

    Edit out the name? If kids want to play name-calling games via e-mail with people here, they shouldn't be surprised if they get called on it in public.

    Actions have consequences. A good life lesson.
    Last edited by Resq14; 02-17-2005 at 11:59 AM.
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  15. #15
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    Originally posted by DrParasite
    Captain Gonzo,
    Can I request that you edit the original post, to remove the sender's e-mail address and username? while I understand your point, there is no need to openly embarrass a person. the description he gives gets your point across.
    - What for? If he had the stones to write it he should have the stones to stand behind it. I think he embarrassed himself the moment he hit "email".
    Last edited by SAFD46Truck; 02-17-2005 at 12:11 PM.

  16. #16
    Forum Member DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
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    Default

    I edited the orignal post to remove his email address, but the username will remain. We quote people all the time in the forum with their username, whether we agree with them or not.

    Dragonslayer22 opened the door, I just chocked it to keep it open... it allows the forum to "vent"....

    PS: it will be cold day in hell when I will allow a 17 year old who thinks he's God's gift to the Fire Service email me and insult me, my brothers and sisters or our profession!
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  17. #17
    Forum Member HeavyRescueTech's Avatar
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    capt gonzo,
    of what benefit does it serve to post his username? does it help get your point across? will it help the young pup change his attitude? he sent this to you in a PM (private message). if he wanted to publicly say it, he would have posted it in the forums. while I agree that his ego and attitude are larger than they should, I don't think publicly embarrassing him (even though he did open the door) is the appropriate way to handle something like this.

    and if someone can show me how posting his name is beneficial to anyone at all (especially the young pup), I will gladly retract my request, and remove any post referencing it.
    If my basic HazMat training has taught me nothing else, it's that if you see a glowing green monkey running away from something, follow that monkey!

    FF/EMT/DBP

  18. #18
    MembersZone Subscriber SteveDude's Avatar
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    Jeez, that is real disheartening...

    I thought it was just the UK where the younger generation seem to have become real arrogant self centred disrespectful pigs. Clearly you are suffering the same over there...a real shame because I still see real decency in the American People when I visit, something lacking from the UK in the past decade. An unbelievable 1 in 4 teenage Boys in the UK now has some sort of criminal record...yes gang 1 in 4 not 1 in 40!!!!

    So they are just the ones who got caught...imagine the true number...50% maybe??? What hope is there.

    I am not some old codger. I am a relatlively sprightly 36, but in the 20 years since I left school, 18 of which I have been in this job, evey year seems to bring more trash out of the woodwork. As an 18 YO Fireman, kids not much younger would be reasonably respectful, even in the Ghetto areas when we were on jobs and such like.

    Now almost everywhere, even in the Leafy suburbs where I live I think the spoilt little rich kids are 1,000 times worse than the ones back in the Projects...


    The young man in the e-mail...he isn't a Ghetto kid, he is a junior Ff for Gods sake...and he dares to call an experienced member Smart ***?? I guess I'll get an e-mail from him for this too!!! (I'm telling you know kid, don't waste your time, I won't waste my time responding).

    You are well qualified...thats good for you. There are people on this forum who have been crawling down stinking burning hallways, pulling bodies from wrecks, trying to breathe life back into a twisted smashed body, Cried over the body of a Brother, Driven ancient Fire Apparatus through tiny back streets with the skill of a Millionare racing Driver, sat exams, sweated Blood and Tears for as long as and even twice as long as your petulant *** has been on this good earth. And still managed to get all of the Qualifications you have...and then some.

    Now do me a favour, wind your neck in, shut up, show a bit of respect and listen to what your elders have to tell you... it may save you one day. We have all been young and keen like you, as you will be 'old' like us fossils sooner than you can believe.

    Also don't **** on my dream that the USA is better than the ****hole formerly known as GREAT Britain...I need to have my dream of me and a few of the brothers on here talking about all the good fires we never put out over a cold beer somewhere in Florida, while some spotty kid is busting your balls when you are a Captian of a FD somewhere.
    Last edited by SteveDude; 02-17-2005 at 12:32 PM.
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  19. #19
    Forum Member VinnieB's Avatar
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    Default Re: Advice to a pup..

    [QUOTE]Originally posted by CaptainGonzo


    But you know what I bet you I am the only 17 year old junior firefighter that is North Carolina 1 and 2 certified and also I have 2 more classes to be Rescue Tech. certified. Medical First Responder and also working on my D/O classes.


    Woooww....a salty dog......gee...he's in the fire service long enough to have had 1 cup of coffee and a tee-shirt.....I love guys with this attitude....good thing he doesn't work for me....

    Gonzo...you handled that rather well...very eloquant... I for one think Tact is a character flaw....and would have ripped him WIDE open...
    IACOJ Member

  20. #20
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    Talking

    if and when he gets on a dept full time if he talks like that he will be scrubbing toilets with a toothbrush,degreasing the underside of all the trucks in the bay, and be a rookie forever. just my two cents

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