1. #1
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    Default Video of Cutting Inflators

    My FF friend Jorg Heck from Germany tipped me off to this URL that has video of several cutting tests of stored gas inflators.

    Here is the link to the video showing the cutting progress at the c-post (hybrid-gas-generator) on a Volvo S40.

    http://www.lukas.de/download/Airbagfertig.wmv
    Ron Moore, Forum Moderator
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    Great link! Although I did find it interesting that while all of the cuts certainly did not produce a desirable affect, it appears to me that when the plastic moulding was not removed, most of the force of the "event" was deflected laterally and not in the direction where the operator of the tool would be standing. Not that I advocate leaving these covers in place, it is something that I think bears some more study.
    Richard Nester
    Orrville (OH) Fire Dept.

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    Hello!

    Its possible that I don't exactly understand what you mean MetalMedic, but I think it is and it was clear that its not the tool operator that is in great danger when cutting into a gas genrator, its the medic inside the car, the patients and the other firefighters standing around.

    I've got a bunch of these videos and in some, parts of the gas generator was shot away with great speed and force. Its also possible to deploy the airbag when cutting into the inflator.

    I think you'll get the same effect when the interior trim is still mounted, additionally the trim will be a part of the flying objects!

    I think you also should be aware that some gas generator are mounted at a 90° angle to the side of the car (driving direction). Parts of the gas generator could bounce at the side of the car and fly across the passenger compartment.
    Jorg Heck
    Moditech Rescue Solutions B.V.
    http://www.moditech.com

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    Great video, I agree it's the providers and the patients that are at the greatest risk of flying debris. JorgHeck how can I obtain some of the videos you have to use in our Department. Thanks, Stay Safe.

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    Exclamation Suprise!

    Imagine the suprise the first time you cut into a airbag gas cylinder when you don't realize it is there.

    Hardened steel seat frames, explosive air bag systems, lexan windows, high voltage electrical systems, etc etc etc it just doesn't get any easier does it?


    Assuming you can recognize the make and modle of a vehicle after a wreck, how do we keep track of which ones have which 'features' that can hurt us?

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    Originally posted by JorgHeck
    Hello!

    Its possible that I don't exactly understand what you mean MetalMedic, but I think it is and it was clear that its not the tool operator that is in great danger when cutting into a gas genrator, its the medic inside the car, the patients and the other firefighters standing around.
    Don't read more into my reply that what I said. I was just observing that the plastic trim seemed to deploy the projectiles laterally instead of in all directions. If this was consistent, it would also protect the medic inside the vehicle (and the victims to) to some degree. Unfortunately, I did not get to see any of the videos that showed parts of the interior trim becoming projectiles as well. However, the first video does show debris flying in almost all directions when the gas cylinder was cut without the interior trim.

    So, once again, I am saying that I do NOT advicate leaving the trim in place. The goal here is to AVOID cutting into the cylinders completely which would pretty much eliminate the problem. In order to do this you MUST expose them.
    Richard Nester
    Orrville (OH) Fire Dept.

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    Hello!
    Assuming you can recognize the make and modle of a vehicle after a wreck, how do we keep track of which ones have which 'features' that can hurt us?
    There are some reference books for this on the market, I think holmatro have one called "the rescuers guide to vehicle safety"!

    Personally I think it is not necassary to know the make and model of the cars today (apart from the cars with alternative fuels), its sometimes also not possbile to recognize it.

    I alway try to teach "best practices" or other universal safety precautions which works on every car. Here are some of them for the points you mentioned...

    Hardened steel seat frames (and other reinforced parts):
    * Know how to use the tool, know where it has the most force and how you get the material at the place with most force
    * Cut where it is best for the rescue and where it is safe to cut, remove the trim do identify hazards! If possible avoid special points which are reinforced (seatbelt attachment bracket, reinforced A-post of convertibles).
    * Be creative, have a plan B.

    explosive air bag systems:
    We put together a univeral rule for handling airbag systems. The rule also works for seatbelt pretensioners and rollover protection systems. I try to explain the rules in this post.

    lexan windows:
    * try to identify the sort of glass by using the stamp in the edge of the window (ESG, VSG, laminated, tempered are some of the keywords).
    * Remove all tempered glass when working with hydraulic tools
    * Laminated glass must not be removed (could not break when prying)
    * When necesarry use a method to avoid dust!

    high voltage electrical systems:
    * Immobilize the vehicle: Chock or block the wheels and set parking break
    * Disable the vehicle:
    a) Shift gear selector into PARK
    b) Turn the ignition OFF and remove the key to a safe location (smart keys 15-20 or more feet from the dashboard receiver)
    c) Disconnect the low voltage (12v battery) system "as required"
    * Stabilize the vehicle: Crib four points; front and rear pillars when possible
    (go to www.extrication.com for more informations). When you look at the 3 points above you could see that these are points which are the standard regardles if the vehicle is gasoline powered or uses an alternative fuel.
    For the normal vehicle battery I teach a step by step-systematic how to proceed.

    I hope you could understand what I mean.
    Jorg Heck
    Moditech Rescue Solutions B.V.
    http://www.moditech.com

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    Hello!
    Originally posted by MetalMedic
    If this was consistent, it would also protect the medic inside the vehicle (and the victims to) to some degree. Unfortunately, I did not get to see any of the videos that showed parts of the interior trim becoming projectiles as well.
    Removing the interior trim is pretty easy because today its only clicked (?) onto the post. So don't think it will have any degree of protection for the medic and the victim in the car. I also have no video with the trim still attached, but I think the trimm will get loose when you hit the gas generator and will become a part of the debris (perhaps not a projectile like parts of the generator).

    MetalMedic, I'm sorry for reading more into your post. Its a bit difficult for my because I've to use a dictonary for some of the word (e.g. laterally, consistent etc.).

    Regards
    Jorg
    Jorg Heck
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    Originally posted by JorgHeck


    MetalMedic, I'm sorry for reading more into your post. Its a bit difficult for my because I've to use a dictonary for some of the word (e.g. laterally, consistent etc.).

    Regards
    Jorg
    No offense taken Jorg. I still luv ya!

    Rich
    Richard Nester
    Orrville (OH) Fire Dept.

    "People don't care what you know... until they know that you care." - Scott Bolleter

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    By the way... I asked Jorg to translate the red wording that appears in several of the scenes...leitlupe 10%. He explains that it means 'slow motion' in English.
    Ron Moore, Forum Moderator
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    Thanks for the video!
    The comments made by me are my opinions only. They DO NOT reflect the opinions of my employer(s). If you have an issue with something I may say, take it up with me, either by posting in the forums, emailing me through my profile, or PMing me through my profile.
    We are all adults so there is no need to act like a child........
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    As mentioned before I wouldn't put a patient or EMT at risk, but it didn't look like a situation that was impossible to protect the occupants of the car. We make it a practice to cover the victim with a heavy aluminized fire blanket to protect them from flying debris and flash fire.
    Again the goal is for the blanket not to have to do this but just in case.

    Great video, thanks

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    It had been suggested on here before that cutting into these would not result in a cataclysmic explosion. I think the video proves this.

    It appears that much of the "debris" was simply glass that had already been broken being blown around a bit. With proper protection, I don't think anyone would be injured though.

    Soft protection and hard protection for the patient would appear to provide the necesssary protection.

    I'd also avoid doing this, but to me, it's a little more comforting to see some actual footage of this.
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    Hello!
    Originally posted by Resq14
    It had been suggested on here before that cutting into these would not result in a cataclysmic explosion. I think the video proves this.
    Also we all agree that should not cut into such a gas generator here are some of my thoughts to the statement above.

    When you take a closer look at the first part of the video you can see that the generator is screwed to the post at the top and at the bottom. The bottom screw is torn of the post at the first cut. When there is no screw at the bottem then the part of the generator could become a projectile (we know that the piston of gas struts could easily penetrate a firefighters leg).

    I think you should not think you could estimate the risk because you've seen one video. There are a lot of different gas generators out there. I will attach two pictures of a generator which is only fixed to the roof at the top of the pressure vessel. What do you think could happen to the loose part of the generator when cutting into it?
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Jorg Heck
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    Both pictures courtesy of Audi
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Last edited by JorgHeck; 02-21-2005 at 01:43 PM.
    Jorg Heck
    Moditech Rescue Solutions B.V.
    http://www.moditech.com

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    I definetly agree.

    I'm just suggesting that it's not as dangerous as previously thought, and that with hard and soft protection, in this one specific instance, things would've been ok.

    I'd like to see more of these tests done, with the variety of gas generators out there.

    Does anyone have the pressure and volume information on these canisters?
    God Bless America!Remember all have given some, but some have given all.
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