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  1. #41
    Permanently Removed CALFFBOU's Avatar
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    Default So?

    Originally posted by SSHANK42
    CALFFBOU, the new MSA's do the same thing.
    And who's design did they copy?


  2. #42
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    With your answer I am assuming Scott. What companies design does every manufacture use for the RIT fitting ? On the same line, can a Scott airpack with the RIT fiitng donate air to another airpack? I am wondering because a couple of departments in our county has Scott packs. I know that this is not a good idea to do but could be usefull to buy the down ff a couple of minutes until a RIT pack can be brought to him. If a department would buy either Scott or Msa SCBA's they want go wrong. This type of banter could and will go on among ff as long as both companies stay in bussiness. I will use either one as long as I don't cough up soot after a fire. I have not used the Scott but other's that have and swear to them are good enough for me.
    Last edited by SSHANK42; 03-01-2005 at 03:29 AM.

  3. #43
    Forum Member Rescue101's Avatar
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    Your Rit fittings are the same regardless of mfg.Why,'cause I might be coming in my Scott to get your Msa untangled.Or visa versa.T.C.

  4. #44
    Forum Member LACAPT's Avatar
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    Calffbou, does it really make a diffence as to who's design they copied, after all is copying not the highest form of flattery. Scott does have a very good scba but IMHO MSA can go toe to toe with them, in the end I beleive its a matter of preference.

  5. #45
    MembersZone Subscriber SamsonFCDES's Avatar
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    Well, lets firgure out who had the first mask mounted docking regulator, thats who they all copied when that change was made.

    You can mask up and be ready to switch to air with all of the modern SCBAs as far as I know. Its not a Scott only trait.

    MSA, Drager, Scott, Survivair all basicaly work the same, pop the regulator in to the mask.

    ISI and Interspiro have airswitched and built in mask regulators.

    Not quite sure how Cairns/Global Pioneer works.

    Break...

    Here is some history of SCBAs that I googled:

    ----------------------------------------

    II. Development of SCBA

    The history of the development of self-contained breathing apparatus goes quite far back in time, though in the early days most of the attention was given to designing a unit to protect firemen from smoke inhalation.

    One such design for firemen dates back to about 1825 when the "smoke filter" was used. It consisted of a leather hood and a hose that was strapped to one of the wearer's leg. It did not contain its own supply of oxygen. Rather, it was designed so that when the wearer inhaled from inside the hood, air would be drawn up through the hose.

    The idea behind this design was that the best air during a fire is closest to the floor. The hose and hood was intended to provide this better air to the firemen as they worked in smoke.

    Soon after, equipment was designed to provide the firemen with good safe air to breathe for short periods of time. One such design was the "supplied air suit" which was filled with fresh air to breathe.

    Another design for firefighters was a bag-like unit filled with fresh air and carried on one's back, much like some of today's units.

    Underwater divers also used some of the first self contained breathing apparatus developed.

    Then, in 1853, self-contained breathing apparatus was introduced for use in the mines by a Professor Schwann of Belgium. In that year, Schwann entered a self-contained breathing apparatus in a competition of the Belgian Academy of Science, and exhibited it at an industrial fair in Belgium.

    In 1880, the original Fleuss apparatus was introduced in England, and in 1903 the original Draeger apparatus was developed in Germany.

    In the United States, breathing apparatus were introduced in 1907 when five Draeger units were purchased by the Boston and Montana Mining Company in Butte, Montana.

    Records show that also in 1907, apparatus were first used to fight fires and explore ahead of fresh air in the mines:

    1. In October or November of 1907, Draeger apparatus were used by a crew of men during the fighting and sealing of a mine fire at the Minnie Healy Mine of the Boston and Montana Mining and Smeiting Company in Butte, Montana.
    2. On December 6, two Draeger apparatus were used to explore ahead of fresh air after an explosion in the Monongah Mine of the Consolidated Coal Company in Monongah. West Virginia.
    3. On December 19, apparatus were used after an explosion in the Darr Mine of the Pittsburgh Coal Company in Jacobs Creek, Pennsylvania.

    In 1910, the Bureau of Mines was established. The Bureau began equipping mine rescue railroad cars and stations with apparatus and began training miners in the use and care of the breathing apparatus. Thus, the equipment necessary for rescue work and the trained teams to use it gradually became more available to the mines.

    At first, all the apparatus used in this country were imported from Europe. Then in 1918, the Gibbs apparatus was designed and manufacture. This was followed by the Paul in 1920 and the McCaa in 1927. These early American-made apparatus were designed for 2-hour use.

    The development of self-contained breathing apparatus has continued to progress through the years. A number of different manufacturers are now producing apparatus that are approved to be used for periods of 2, 3, and 4 hours at a time. Among these apparatus commonly used for mine rescue work are the Draeger BG 174, the Aerolox, and the Scott Rescue-Pak.

    ----------------------------------------
    -Brotherhood: I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
    -Mistakes: It could be that the purpose of you life is to serve as a warning to others.

    -Adversity: That which does not kill me postpones the inevitable.

    -Despair: Its always darkest before it goes Pitch Black.

  6. #46
    MembersZone Subscriber SamsonFCDES's Avatar
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    I cant seem to find hard numbers but from what I gather so far it seems Drager is the most used SCBA worldwide. It is also the oldest breathing apparatus manufacturer.

    Another cool thing about Drager I have found out is that the Navy SEAL teams use Drager rebreathers/dive gear.

    The other SCBA brands we forgot to discuss are North ( ) and IIRC Kawasaki Heavy Industries. I doubt the Kawasaki is even available outside Asia, and North has got to be biggest POS bar none.

    Are there any other brands missing?
    -Brotherhood: I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
    -Mistakes: It could be that the purpose of you life is to serve as a warning to others.

    -Adversity: That which does not kill me postpones the inevitable.

    -Despair: Its always darkest before it goes Pitch Black.

  7. #47
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    Default just for the record

    just for the record draeger was out way before scott, drager was the first scba created, even though it was created in germany!
    michael umphrey
    captain higgins twp fire/rescue/ems
    roscommon,mi

  8. #48
    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
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    click in if I need to. Or just go to work and have the option to click in when I need to
    I'll take my quicker/simpler Surivair mask mounted regulator over the Scott any day - no lining up, no twisting, just push it on in any orientation. (although, I have heard they are downgrading to the "need to line it up the right way" style )
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  9. #49
    MembersZone Subscriber mcaldwell's Avatar
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    Regardless of any of our brand loyalty, at the end of the day I think the principles for any significant purchase like SCBA are the same.

    1. Determine your department's functional needs.
    2. Determine any interoperability needs.
    3. Determine your departments product support needs.
    4. Determine the suitable candidate products.
    5. Shop around for the most reputable suppliers.
    6. Demo all the candidate products (or as many as possible/feasible).
    7. Analyse the products in-depth.
    8. Compare your findings by manufacturer and supplier.
    9. Haggle and make your purchase decision.
    10. Buy the product, and train, train, train.
    (11. Make sure you get some good schwag from the salesman )

    Anyone who makes a large purchase without doing all the research is doing there crew and community a disservice. This site can be a valuable step in that research, but certainly don't take our word alone.

    Have fun with it.
    Never argue with an Idiot. They drag you down to their level, and then beat you with experience!

    IACOJ

  10. #50
    Forum Member Rescue101's Avatar
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    And for another record,Scott has protected me for 37 years and will be protecting me and mine until such point as I see fit to retire.I for one,have no intention of leaving a company with a proven track record of superior service and reliability to try another.I find Scotts easy to use,easy to train new personnel on,easy to maintain,and very cost effective in terms of money spent for service rendered.In our area there are a lot of Scotts,a few MSA,even fewer Cairns and NO Draegers.And I've got nothing against a Drager,but there just isn't any in the immediate area.All the packs we own can be upgraded with the latest widgets if we so desire,and these packs can date back close to twenty years.No one else I know of can say that,not even Drager.Built to last a career,and I've got proof.T.C.
    Last edited by Rescue101; 03-02-2005 at 03:31 PM.

  11. #51
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    ISI air-packs fall apart. The bells and whistles are great, but they aren't very tough.

  12. #52
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    They have now made the reg so it has to snap one-way only, this is becuase Survivair is using a hard wired HUD which is located on the second stage, it has to line-up in the windows to be seen, but, they have made it very comfortable to use, it naturally wants to be in that position whether you are doning left or right handed-- Survivair for ever brother....

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