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  1. #21
    Temporarily/No Longer Active ToughJustice's Avatar
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    Default Observation

    My biggest issue with all of this is that there is no reason for anyone who has no idea of the situations within the MVFD to come and make their opions.

    You may see it as a Kindergarden Hissy Fit but really, these are our lives on the line not yours. And unfortunatly no matter how hard you try your not going to get the opinions of the members who stayed and went back, really your not even getting one opinion, just posts of newspaper articles, and really how accurate is the media, you said so yourself.

    Who said that everything was rosey after the walk out...I'm sure that it was far from, they were left with an inoperable department of three people and a large personel mess to clean up. It wasn't even rosey on the other side...support was hard to come by, not that people disagreed, but they were less motivated to state thier support.

    The MVFD and their flaws seem to be a common theme in a few of your threads so really can you blame me for calling it a bashing? But will everything be fixed now that the former Chief is gone...will two wrongs make a right and everything will become perfect...doubt it.

    The training prior to our leaving had no issues what-so-ever and please tell me what less than $30.00 per member can buy us in training. I can name only one person of the department who did not attend the different levels of the Live Fire Training, and that was because of personal injury. Please tell me how much better we can get than that. First Responder III through the JI amoungst other relevant courses. But a taste of what you may come across on the street will always aid in your sense of awareness.

    As per the rocket.
    Of course I can agree that it's an inverted grain hopper, cause that's exactly what it is. Frankly, I don't believe that the use of it is really all that wrong, as long as it is used within proper limits and with a level head.

    Now on all of this I think that the last thing that this department needs is your pity or you feeling sorry for it, because that's not going to get it anywhere.


  2. #22
    Forum Member PFire23's Avatar
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    As per the rocket.
    Of course I can agree that it's an inverted grain hopper, cause that's exactly what it is. Frankly, I don't believe that the use of it is really all that wrong, as long as it is used within proper limits and with a level head.


    Read the following definition of "confined space", THEN tell me whether or not the Malahat Fire Dept does confined space rescue, whether or not they are trained for that "technical" rescue ...... then tell me you still see nothing wrong with using that as your live burn training facility.

    Confined Space: OSHA Regulation 29 CFR 1910.146 defines a confined space as a space that:

    1. Is large enough and so configured that an employee can bodily enter and perform assigned work; and

    2. Has limited or restricted means for entry or exit (example, tanks, vessels, silos, storage bins, hoppers, vaults, and pits that may have limited means of entry); and

    3. Is not designed for continuous employee occupancy.

    All three (3) parameters, of the above definition, must be met for a space to be classified as a Confined Space.

    http://www.lwfd.org/TRT/ConfinedSpac...sp#DEFINITION:
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  3. #23
    Forum Member firefighter26's Avatar
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    Originally posted by PFire23
    Confined Space: OSHA Regulation 29 CFR 1910.146 defines a confined space as a space that:

    1. Is large enough and so configured that an employee can bodily enter and perform assigned work; and

    2. Has limited or restricted means for entry or exit (example, tanks, vessels, silos, storage bins, hoppers, vaults, and pits that may have limited means of entry); and

    3. Is not designed for continuous employee occupancy.

    All three (3) parameters, of the above definition, must be met for a space to be classified as a Confined Space.

    http://www.lwfd.org/TRT/ConfinedSpac...sp#DEFINITION:[/B]
    According to OSHA my car is a confined space, yet I still drive it to work every day.

    As per the "rocket" being our "live burn training facility," it isn't. There is a facility in Nanaimo that firefighters are sent to for taking Live Fire 101 and 201.

    Further more, it was a rare day in which more than TWO pallets are ever used in there (the rocket), and the fire (what little is in there) is knocked down from the exterior prior to entry. How much fire? I have knocked it down with nothing more than residual line pressure.

    Fire in the second half isn't much bigger and I have seen campfires with bigger flames. Hell, I have seen fire extinguisher pan fires that where bigger on fire prevention day at other departments!

    Not to mention that WHENEVER it is used there is a second, fully turned out RIT in position with their own charged line, smoked up and ready to go.
    "No one ever called the Fire Department for doing something smart..."

  4. #24
    Forum Member DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
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    Tough Justice...

    My observation was the first I have posted. I know via this wonderful invention called the internet a few Malahat firefighters.

    There have been issues that I was asked my opinion on, such as training issues and the "rocket", including a conversation with a Malahat firefighter who stated that diesel fuel was used along with the pallets to "get the going". This was shortly after the Lairdsville tragedy.

    A member of your department came up with a power point/slide show presentation showing the inadequacies and the dangers of using the "rocket" and came up with a solution that the entire district could have shared, used to train together with the NFPA 1403 guidelines and even defray expenses.

    Since it wasn't the idea of the Chief of Department and/or his advisors (conincidentally, most of which are comprised of family family members), it was ignored.

    Safety issues... such improperly fittng SCBA masks. The persons who had a hard time getting a proper seal despite having the mask's adjustment points either extended to the max or retracted to the max were told to "deal with it"... not exactly the answer a firefighter would like to hear.

    Putting blame on the last operator of a piece of apparatus because a pump operator couldn't get water at a fire (another incident entirely and which turned out to be operator error), then writing up the previous operator for making a u turn at another incident that was directed by a company officer (told by a few Malahat firefighters, not just the one who got written up) and then writing up the so called "infraction" weeks after the alleged infraction happened in retaliation is simply no way to run a department.

    The walkout of Malahat Firefighters accomplished what. Nothing.

    Now those who walked out want to come back and act as if nothing happened? It can be done, but time will have to heal the wounds, and attitudes will have to be changed. That might be justice, and it is tough...
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
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  5. #25
    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
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    I loved doing what I was doing and helping people was my first priority but how can you risk your life to look after the community when there's the risk of having no one left to look after your family?
    Maybe I missed this, but was insurance coverage taken completely away? or was it just changed to a lower amount?
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  6. #26
    Forum Member EastKyFF's Avatar
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    Just lowered, Bones, and I'm bumfuzzled that this has been such a big thing. Classic example of cutting off your nose to spite your face.
    "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.Ē
    --General James Mattis, USMC


  7. #27
    Forum Member DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
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    Originally posted by EastKyFF
    Just lowered, Bones, and I'm bumfuzzled that this has been such a big thing. Classic example of cutting off your nose to spite your face.
    I was bumfuzzled once... but it was from a pair of flannel boxer shorts.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  8. #28
    Fire Chaplain IACOJRev's Avatar
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    Default

    Originally posted by CaptainGonzo


    I was bumfuzzled once... but it was from a pair of flannel boxer shorts.
    No, Gonz, that would have been bumfuzzy not bumfuzzle.
    Resident Chaplain of the IACOJ

  9. #29
    MembersZone Subscriber MalahatTwo7's Avatar
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    Default

    Originally posted by IACOJRev


    No, Gonz, that would have been bumfuzzy not bumfuzzle.
    FOC - ROFLMAO!
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  10. #30
    Forum Member firefighter26's Avatar
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    Default

    the speed of a bumfuzzle would be measured in??

    bumfuzzle-ocity?
    "No one ever called the Fire Department for doing something smart..."

  11. #31
    MembersZone Subscriber mcaldwell's Avatar
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    Default

    Originally posted by firefighter26
    the speed of a bumfuzzle would be measured in??

    bumfuzzle-ocity?
    Depends on whether it is the speed of bumfuzzle through light, or the speed of bumfuzzle through dark.

    Cause as we have learned, the speed of dark is different.
    Never argue with an Idiot. They drag you down to their level, and then beat you with experience!

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  12. #32
    Temporarily/No Longer Active ToughJustice's Avatar
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    Default Again only one side of the story.

    2. Has limited or restricted means for entry or exit (example, tanks, vessels, silos, storage bins, hoppers, vaults, and pits that may have limited means of entry); and
    It's hard to say, just because it's a hopper, doesn't mean that this is confined, it's the entry or exit part that's the catch, and that's hard to say, and really I think that it's a matter of opinion to how restrictive the means of entry of exit is...I can think of two ways to get out easily...

    Well CaptainGonzo I'd like to point out that the side of the story that your hearing again is only one side of the story...just because you heard it from a few different people doesn't mean that they seen the issue from different aspects. Here's a few more facts:

    There have been issues that I was asked my opinion on, such as training issues and the "rocket", including a conversation with a Malahat firefighter who stated that diesel fuel was used along with the pallets to "get the going".
    This was the teachings of the Deputy Chief at the time...as per him being repremanded, I cannot be sure, since I am not the Chief and the Department is not my responsibility (Thank God!). Does it make you feel any better to know that, that Deputy is now the Department Head? Due to appointment of the CVRD who didn't even follow their own policies for this process.

    A member of your department came up with a power point/slide show presentation showing the inadequacies and the dangers of using the "rocket" and came up with a solution that the entire district could have shared, used to train together with the NFPA 1403 guidelines and even defray expenses.
    If you ask me that's taking way to much time for something so juvenile...but I do know that the Chief discontinued the use of the rocket following, much to the disappointment of a majority of the members. On a later date a few of the members decided that they would complain about the things wrong with it and ways that it coud be fixed...when asked if they would fix it they declined.

    Safety issues... such improperly fittng SCBA masks. The persons who had a hard time getting a proper seal despite having the mask's adjustment points either extended to the max or retracted to the max were told to "deal with it"... not exactly the answer a firefighter would like to hear.
    Actually this firefighter was bought a special small sized mask, which was not used a single time after it's purchase. When I was in the hall I was the only one who was comfortable enough to wear it and finally after about a year of sitting and waiting it was put to use.

    Putting blame on the last operator of a piece of apparatus because a pump operator couldn't get water at a fire (another incident entirely and which turned out to be operator error), then writing up the previous operator for making a u turn at another incident that was directed by a company officer (told by a few Malahat firefighters, not just the one who got written up) and then writing up the so called "infraction" weeks after the alleged infraction happened in retaliation is simply no way to run a department.
    I believe that the incident that you are talking about would be a bush fire, one where the person who was supposed to be running the pump had no clue how to do it, even though it was claimed that they could...I believe that this is one of those break under pressure situations. Not to mention the numerous complaints that were made that some people weren't pulling thier own weight, and I'm sure you know how annoying that can get. As for getting written up, who knows about that, but paperwork doesn't always follow up immediatly.

    Since it wasn't the idea of the Chief of Department and/or his advisors (conincidentally, most of which are comprised of family family members), it was ignored.
    Now this one really gets under my skin, how can you possibly critisize people for donating their time? And if there's an issue with an intire family being involved, why aren't those who are complaining stepping up to fill the plate of these so called "advisor" positions...if your going to sit back and critisize the people who are doing something, why don't you get up and do something productive.
    But just so that you know, here's how those advisor poistions filled out:
    Deputy Chief: someone of no relation to the Chief.
    LT: held by someone of no relation to the Chief.
    SCBA Officer: that would be the Chiefs Step-son.
    Equipment Officer: that position was by a probabtionary member, of no relation to the Chief, since, people weren't fulfilling their duties.
    Engineering Officer: a heavy duty mechanic, also a probationary member, and of no relation to the Chief.
    First Responder Officer: no relation to the Chief.
    Fire Prevention: this was held by myself, the former Chiefs daughter...something that I didn't even want to do, but again no one stepped up.

    You can spare me with the Fire Hall run by a family crap, cause that's just not true...and unfortunatly, people just don't get that...being related to the Chief doesn't get you any special treatment, matter of fact it's a pain in the butt, since your continually having to prove yourself against these type of people.

  13. #33
    Forum Member MIKEYLIKESIT's Avatar
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    Default Metallic Hick

    Hey Toughie. I saw the "rocket" with my own eyes. I even physically went into that thing. It is a DEATH TRAP waiting to happen. I am wondering how many times you have been on the pipe in a real fire? If you are the ex chiefs daughter, you are only a teenager. If you arent, You obviously are showing your ignorance to some very basic fire safety rules. You would have got to test out your death benefits if that thing was continued to be used. Live fire training is an essential component in becoming a real firefighter. Dying in that thing isnt. Your brother hasnt answered me about roof work, so maybe you will answer my asking.. How many fires have you actually fought?
    IAFF-IACOJ PROUD

  14. #34
    Disillusioned Subscriber Steamer's Avatar
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    Default

    It's hard to say, just because it's a hopper, doesn't mean that this is confined, it's the entry or exit part that's the catch, and that's hard to say, and really I think that it's a matter of opinion to how restrictive the means of entry of exit is...I can think of two ways to get out easily...
    Matter of opinion? Hardly. From Appendix E..."Restricted -- A portal of 24 inches or less in the least dimension. Portals of this size are too small to allow a rescuer to simply enter the space while using SCBA." It's not hard to say at all.
    If you ask me that's taking way to much time for something so juvenile...but I do know that the Chief discontinued the use of the rocket following, much to the disappointment of a majority of the members. On a later date a few of the members decided that they would complain about the things wrong with it and ways that it coud be fixed...when asked if they would fix it they declined.
    Juvenile?? You consider valid safety concerns to be juvenile? At least this person saw something dangerous and pointed it out. They used a medium that they believed was the most effective in getting the point across. As for a majority of the members being disappointed when it was discontinued, oh well. They're alive to be disappointed, and that's the bottom line.

    Why did the others decline to fix this thing? Maybe because they didn't feel qualified to make the proper assessment to safely correct the deficiencies? You just don't go whacking on something like this with a cutting torch and welding things willie nilly.

    Mikey's right. This thing was/is dangerous.
    Steve Gallagher
    IACOJ BOT
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  15. #35
    Forum Member PFire23's Avatar
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    Default Re: Again only one side of the story.

    Originally posted by ToughJustice
    Actually this firefighter was bought a special small sized mask, which was not used a single time after it's purchase. When I was in the hall I was the only one who was comfortable enough to wear it and finally after about a year of sitting and waiting it was put to use.


    The mask WAS used a few times AFTER being bought. Maybe you need to get YOUR facts straight. It was used when SCBA drills were carried out, it was used at car fires, etc. Since there are so few FIRE incidents in that district it didn't get worn very often, but it was worn.


    I believe that the incident that you are talking about would be a bush fire, one where the person who was supposed to be running the pump had no clue how to do it, even though it was claimed that they could...I believe that this is one of those break under pressure situations. Not to mention the numerous complaints that were made that some people weren't pulling thier own weight, and I'm sure you know how annoying that can get. As for getting written up, who knows about that, but paperwork doesn't always follow up immediatly.


    Again, get your facts straight. The pump issue was discussed WITH the chief after the incident. For the record, water wasn't forth coming when the prime was pulled, so because I was not very experienced on that particular pump and didn't want to "break" anything by keeping the prime engaged for too long,(not to mention that we didn't need another "pump failure" like the McCurdy incident) I recognized that I was having a problem and immediately radioed for assistance, which happened to be your brother since he was the closest. You also failed to mention that once the pump was running there was NEVER a lapse in water supply or foam, water was drafted from the porta-tank without any problem. Everyone has brain farts, if in fact I "had no clue" what I was doing I'm sure the water supply would have been LOST along the way. I'm glad that you have such vast experience that you can sit back and say it was a "break under pressure" situation. Make all the allusions that you want Sarah, but since you were not privy to conversations between your father and I you really know NOTHING, unless you are saying that your Daddy breached confidentiality and you really do know what you are talking about. Which is it? Since you were NOT on that call I have to question where exactly it is that you get your information.

    As for "pulling their own weight", I always did my job, so try again there.
    Last edited by PFire23; 03-12-2005 at 01:53 AM.
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  16. #36
    Temporarily/No Longer Active ToughJustice's Avatar
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    Default

    I love how quickly you all jump on the bandwagon of critisim. Your all too quick to jump to conclusions.

    I do not believe that any relivant safety concerns are juvenile, ummm,it's the fact that that much time would be taken to make something that was just as effective as voicing your concern personally, all that time could have been spent doing something productive. Oh and don't forget to tell me that you actually did that, and my Daddy of a Fire Chief just neglected to follow up with that.

    Hey Toughie. I saw the "rocket" with my own eyes. I even physically went into that thing. It is a DEATH TRAP waiting to happen. I am wondering how many times you have been on the pipe in a real fire? If you are the ex chiefs daughter, you are only a teenager. If you arent, You obviously are showing your ignorance to some very basic fire safety rules. You would have got to test out your death benefits if that thing was continued to be used. Live fire training is an essential component in becoming a real firefighter. Dying in that thing isnt. Your brother hasnt answered me about roof work, so maybe you will answer my asking.. How many fires have you actually fought?
    Oh you, I really, really love you. Your so full of yourself and all of your wonderful skills. Please bless me with the pressence of your guidance.
    Live Fire Training...brings back memories, those times were fun, but that was under the previous chief...wonder if the new one (who's, again, favorite tool is the rocket) would continue that training?
    Yes I am a teenager, really, why continue to bring this one up...seems to me that I'm more "grown-up" then the rest of you. One thing that you all need to understand is...this fight is OUR fight...this has to do with insurance NOT training or safety.

    And yet you all continue to neglect answering me this...what coverage does your insurance offer? and are you paid or volunteer?

  17. #37
    Forum Member DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
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    Tough Justice

    Many of us who have commented on the Malahat situation have more time "on the job" than you have been on the planet! The Malahat Firefighters I know and have conversed with care about he hall, care about the job and wanted to make things better. Since they were not getting anywhere with the Chief about changing things, they asked for assistance to try to help them present a better picture so the Chief would look at things differently. The fire hall isn't a private club, you know.

    Get over the fact that Daddy isn't the Chief anymore. He made his decision, he'll have to stick with it.

    The firefighters who walked out en masse and want to return will have to work with the new Chief, the District and each other to make things work. If you want to be the monkey wrench tossed nto the gears...get out now.. they don't need you!

    One thing that you all need to understand is...this fight is OUR fight...
    Wilson's War?
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    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  18. #38
    Forum Member MIKEYLIKESIT's Avatar
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    Default METALLIC HICK

    To answer your question, I am blessed to work in a state that matches the Federal PSOB of almost $276,000. This along with my life insurance and any workmans comp claims and a few other assorted benefits ends up being quite a bit of money. I wont be around to enjoy it but thats what it is. I answered my question. Now are you going to answer mine. How many fires have you fought? You say it's your fight, but we didnt start this thread, your brother did. You have zero credibility with anyone on these forums because of the JUVENILE things you posted under your last screen name. Nobody cares (except you) about peoples personal lives. If HALF the crap that I have heard about the way people are treated around your little community is true, then those responsible should be ASHAMED of themselves. I wont comment further, because you know,deep down in your heart what the truth is. Thats a ton of baggage for someone so young. Have a nice day!
    IAFF-IACOJ PROUD

  19. #39
    Temporarily/No Longer Active ToughJustice's Avatar
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    Get over the fact that Daddy isn't the Chief anymore. He made his decision, he'll have to stick with it.
    And so he did, not being one of the members that re-applied.

    You say it's your fight, but we didnt start this thread, your brother did.
    On the contrary this thread was started by Malahat27.

    You have zero credibility with anyone on these forums because of the JUVENILE things you posted under your last screen name. Nobody cares (except you) about peoples personal lives. If HALF the crap that I have heard about the way people are treated around your little community is true, then those responsible should be ASHAMED of themselves. I wont comment further, because you know,deep down in your heart what the truth is. Thats a ton of baggage for someone so young.
    Of Course I know what the truth is, and if I didn't I would be on here defending all of the people that you so graciously drag down. What you so claim to know about this community and the people who live in it is completely tainted...I won't comment further because that may get into the past, and things that happened (thus me being able to create my own opinions), something you obviously don't care about.

    Many of us who have commented on the Malahat situation have more time "on the job" than you have been on the planet!
    That's nice and your point would be?...state that your better than I. Makes no difference to me, just because of my age doesn't mean that I can't form my own opinions (not those of my family, thank you very much). Get over your experience, because as far as I'm concerned it has nothing to do with this situation.

    The fire hall isn't a private club, you know.
    Thanks Tips. I love it when people state the obvious. All we're trying to do is get back into the hall so that the community is safe again. Personally if I got into an accident on the Malahat I would refuse thier service until Mutial Aid arrived, because I KNOW the experience of the people at the hall...and frankly I wouldn't put my life in thier hands.

    The firefighters who walked out en masse and want to return will have to work with the new Chief, the District and each other to make things work. If you want to be the monkey wrench tossed nto the gears...get out now.. they don't need you!
    Maybe not me personally but they need the help and unfortunatly putting off accepting applications as long as they can get away with it isn't helping them any better. You know as well as I the amount of training that it takes to get up to par in Firefighting standards, and they're not meeting it, not even close.

    Wilson's War?
    Ha! lol, okay, lets put this one on the line...we all know how powerful the Wilson's are in this community, they must run it, you know all those people who walked out of the hall did it because they were under hypnosis of the Wilson Clan. Did you all know that they were told that they were not allowed to go back under the penalty of death done so by the Wilson Clan. That's why of the people that went back to re-join, a few of the Wilson Clan included.
    Give me a break...

    It's seems to me that it's some-what odd that Grown Adults like you so claim to be have to resort to "Name-Calling" when loseing a war with facts.

  20. #40
    Forum Member MIKEYLIKESIT's Avatar
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    Originally posted by ToughJustice




    On the contrary this thread was started by Malahat27.




    Sorry. I stand corrected on this particular point.
    IAFF-IACOJ PROUD

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