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  1. #41
    Forum Member DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
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    Originally posted by "ToughJustice"

    And so he did, not being one of the members that re-applied.


    That is his choice. Let us all hope that he will support the Malahat VFD regardless of his differences with the CVRD.



    On the contrary this thread was started by Malahat27.


    Yes it was, and it was complimentary is nature until a member of the FD tried using it to ply for the sympathy vote. Other VFD's have "walked out"... none of them have garnered any support from the members of these boards, even from their brother and sister volunteers.


    Of Course I know what the truth is, and if I didn't I would be on here defending all of the people that you so graciously drag down. What you so claim to know about this community and the people who live in it is completely tainted...I won't comment further because that may get into the past, and things that happened (thus me being able to create my own opinions), something you obviously don't care about.


    It's a small village made up of mostly mobile homes and the top of a mountain. It's fortunate to have it's own fire hall. The unfortunate thing is that the members of the hall decided to quit en masse instead of working things out. The reason some of the issues were brought up and being answered were because there are people who care who are nowhere near Malahat.

    That's nice and your point would be?...state that your better than I.


    Nope. I just have a lot more experience.

    Makes no difference to me, just because of my age doesn't mean that I can't form my own opinions (not those of my family, thank you very much).


    Everyone is entitled to an opinion, even if it's wrong or given to them or influenced by others....

    Get over your experience, because as far as I'm concerned it has nothing to do with this situation.


    "Tuffie"... I have actually been inside of a burning building or two, or twenty or a hundred. Have you? I have seen personnel under my command injured in the line of duty. I have taken the lifeless bodies of children and adults out of fire ravaged buildings, car wrecks, watched close family friends and even infants die right in front of my eyes despite our best efforts to revive them.

    Experience is a hard teacher, those who forget the lessons are doomed to repeat them.



    I love it when people state the obvious. All we're trying to do is get back into the hall so that the community is safe again. Personally if I got into an accident on the Malahat I would refuse thier service until Mutial Aid arrived, because I KNOW the experience of the people at the hall...and frankly I wouldn't put my life in thier hands.


    It may your choice to refuse help or bleed to death, but I highly doubt that you would refuse help, and the members of the Malahat FD wouldn't let you die there.


    Maybe not me personally but they need the help and unfortunatly putting off accepting applications as long as they can get away with it isn't helping them any better. You know as well as I the amount of training that it takes to get up to par in Firefighting standards, and they're not meeting it, not even close.


    Who is reviewing the applications, CVRD or the new administration? The CVRD stated that those who wished to go back could, but with out the seniority that they had. There's a cost to play the game.
    What you call putting off applications may be screening applicants for a better fire department.

    PS: Would that training include time in the "rocket"?


    Ha! lol, okay, lets put this one on the line...we all know how powerful the Wilson's are in this community, they must run it, you know all those people who walked out of the hall did it because they were under hypnosis of the Wilson Clan. Did you all know that they were told that they were not allowed to go back under the penalty of death done so by the Wilson Clan. That's why of the people that went back to re-join, a few of the Wilson Clan included.
    Give me a break...


    A certain member of the family wore a lot of Mala "Hats", if you catch my drift. You can't tell me that nobody else wanted to help, for I know that's not true. It's nice to see that people want to come back, "Wilsonites" included.

    It's seems to me that it's some-what odd that Grown Adults like you so claim to be have to resort to "Name-Calling" when loseing a war with facts. Thanks Tips*
    * posted out of order to prove a point

    Fact: the CVRD changed the insurance policy.

    Fact: many of the members of the Malahat VFD walked out due to the change.

    Fact: Many of the members of the Malahat VFD realized their error and want to go back. I see this as a good thing, and I hope that those who left and those who stayed can resolve their differences. For the village of Malahat, that is a "win-win" situation.

    Fact: Training and safety issues cannot be ignored, otherwise, the Malahat VFD will be using that insurance policy.

    *PS: Tips? Tips? It's Captain Tips to you, darlin'. Now go to your room until you can treat those people on these boards with some respect.
    Last edited by CaptainGonzo; 03-12-2005 at 04:18 PM.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
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  2. #42
    Temporarily/No Longer Active ToughJustice's Avatar
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    Default Another Rebuttle

    Yes it was, and it was complimentary is nature until a member of the FD tried using it to ply for the sympathy vote. Other VFD's have "walked out"... none of them have garnered any support from the members of these boards, even from their brother and sister volunteers.
    Is this meant to show that anyone who walks out of a Fire Department for whichever reason doesn't recieve support? Because that is hardly the case. I can't say that I would ask for the support for anyone of the people that are on here, whether they think that I or we as a group are wrong or right, we did what we did and for good reason. If you can't see that point that's no skin off of my back, the only support that I need is that of my own, and those I walked out with.

    Everyone is entitled to an opinion, even if it's wrong or given to them or influenced by others....
    Whether or not it's wrong isn't that a matter of opinion again? Viscious Circle if you ask me. I create my own opinions personally with my own experience and thoughts. So who it is that may have this influence here, I'm not sure.

    Experience is a hard teacher, those who forget the lessons are doomed to repeat them.
    I agree, did you know that there is one person waiting to go back with 17 years of experience...the most that, that Fire Hall has ever seen. Along with 11 years, 9 years, a few of 7 and 5 years, a few more just under 3, myself just under 2, and a few that have been in for less than a year. If experience is so great explain to me why they're taking this stand.

    Who is reviewing the applications, CVRD or the new administration? The CVRD stated that those who wished to go back could, but with out the seniority that they had. There's a cost to play the game.
    Something that these people understand completly...it'd be nice to drop all those Mala"Hats" and do only the work that we volunteered to do in the first place, Firefighting, let other people run the show while we sit in the back, cause seriously I'm getting sick of the lime-light, but will these people be critisized the way that the previous group was? What's the difference?

    A certain member of the family wore a lot of Mala "Hats", if you catch my drift. You can't tell me that nobody else wanted to help, for I know that's not true. It's nice to see that people want to come back, "Wilsonites" included.
    Actually I can tell you that, and I did tell you that, only two of the seven recognizable positions were held by members of the Wilson family. As per people not wanting to help...let's put it this way, a probationary firefighter was asked to fill the position of another firefighter because he simply wasn't doing the job. I understand that sometimes people don't have the time, but if you don't then don't take the job on, and don't critisize those who do.

    It may your choice to refuse help or bleed to death, but I highly doubt that you would refuse help, and the members of the Malahat FD wouldn't let you die there.
    Just like I'm sure that the one of members wouldn't refuse to help one of the former members carry a young girl out of spite.

    PS: Would that training include time in the "rocket"?
    Why would I know that?

    It's a small village made up of mostly mobile homes and the top of a mountain. It's fortunate to have it's own fire hall. The unfortunate thing is that the members of the hall decided to quit en masse instead of working things out. The reason some of the issues were brought up and being answered were because there are people who care who are nowhere near Malahat.
    And we did this on our own accord, this hardly means that we don't care...again you weren't there, you don't know, and from what I understand your not opening up to hear from those other that whom you want to.
    "The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance -- it is the illusion of knowledge." Something that you may want to think about.
    Let down your wall and be a little more open minded to the things that went on, everyone reads between the lines and in different ways at that...do you know where everyone stands on this...do you even know where I stand?

    Fact: the CVRD changed the insurance policy.
    Fact: The CVRD actually didn't change the insurance policy the newly appointed chief signed the policy off.

    Fact: many of the members of the Malahat VFD walked out due to the change.
    Fact: many of the members of the MVFD walked out when the CVRD staff called a meeting at the hall stating that the former Deputy would be filing the position of the Chief, and that we would not be allowed to recieve the upgraded insurance (this was later voted on by the board.)

    Fact: Many of the members of the Malahat VFD realized their error and want to go back. I see this as a good thing, and I hope that those who left and those who stayed can resolve their differences. For the village of Malahat, that is a "win-win" situation.
    Fact: Many of the former members of the MVFD realized that their point has been made (they hardly believe that any of their actions were errors). They want to go back to the hall completly devoid of any of thier positions, and wish only to do the tasks required of them. As far as I'm concerned there is no difference between the former members and those who didn't leave or went back before...like I said we've talked to the former members on numerous occasions, and any differences between these people have absolutly nothing to do with the walk-out. I can completly understand those who stayed, it was a hard thing to leave behind.

    Fact: Training and safety issues cannot be ignored, otherwise, the Malahat VFD will be using that insurance policy.
    Training and safety issues have nothing to do with the insurance policy, as far as I'm concerned everything that has come up previously has been dealt with. But will they be dealt with now? The current Chief was the only person who caused the Fire Department to recieve a WCB sitation during the time of the Former Chief. Also the current Chief served as Chief prior to the Former Chief's election. During this time he recieved a more than 13 sitations from WCB all simultainiously. This is now the leader of your pack.
    But on the insurance policy...this one will remain to be the one the CVRD imposed, since the former one was signed off.

    I'd have to at least have some respect for you in order to call you a captain and unfortunatly I don't, in order to have respect you must earn it, and I would think the same of you towards me. And just becuase you earned this position in your department means nothing to me, I just wish that some form of understanding could come of this, but it seems to be a defensive brick wall after defensive brick wall.

  3. #43
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    Smile An opinion from someone new

    I joined the Malahat fire department just before all this insurance thing happened. I for one didn't even know that there was insurance to be honest untill the chief told me. I believe in my heart and soul that we were not fighting for the insurance just for ourselves but for every firefighter including the ones who went back and the ones who came in. I personally didn't have anyone twist my arm, hold my head or threaten me because if I didn't follow or walk out. I sat in those meetings and watched everyone of those people STAND behind their chief and each and everyone of them when they were asked were they 100% behind the chief if he stood up for what he believed and and the answer was YES. Now I believe that standing behind your Chief is a good thing just like if a captain was going down with the ship. I personally think he went out on a line for all the members and is what he should have done and only doing this because he felt he was being backed 100% as everyone around that table said and wrote that night in the letters. I maybe only new at this but I never got one phone call from the "Wilson clan" saying if you go back then we won't talk to you. I only recieved phone calls saying come down we need to support each other and there in fact is what we all have been doing supporting each other which is what should have happened in the first place. If all of those people who said that they were behind the Chief when he asked because he did say and I will quote " I will not do this and go balls to the walls if you guys are not behind me" everyone agreed and said they where..Now I say what is wrong with that picture

  4. #44
    Forum Member DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
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    I just wish that some form of understanding could come of this, but it seems to be a defensive brick wall after defensive brick wall.
    Why yes it is....and soon you will run out of bricks and mortar.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  5. #45
    Temporarily/No Longer Active ToughJustice's Avatar
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    I think that you misunderstood my meaning on that one...I have no reason to have a wall put up, really, what do I have to hide?
    What I meant was that it seems like people aren't as open-minded as they seem, ask questions, get answers, don't just assume.

  6. #46
    Forum Member DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
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    We don't need outside opinions
    We don't want CVRD control
    No dark sarcasm on the forums
    Posters, leave us all alone..

    Hey, posters, leave us all alone..

    all in all it's just another brick in the wall...

    all in all it's just another brick in the wall...*

    *apologies to Roger Waters, David Gilmoour, Richard Wright and Nick Mason....PinkFloyd
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    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  7. #47
    Forum Member ThNozzleman's Avatar
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    Figured you guys could use this...
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  8. #48
    Temporarily/No Longer Active ToughJustice's Avatar
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    I must say cudos to you for your creativity, does this mean that you have nothing left to say on this subject.

  9. #49
    Forum Member firefighter26's Avatar
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    Default In my own defense

    Originally posted by CaptainGonzo
    A certain member of the family wore a lot of Mala "Hats", if you catch my drift. You can't tell me that nobody else wanted to help, for I know that's not true. It's nice to see that people want to come back, "Wilsonites" included.
    Well, I will come right out and say it. I am pretty sure that this refers to me. However, I feel that there are a few things that I should point out as to why I wore so many mala-“hats” (by the way Capt. that was the highlight of my morning).

    Every “hat” that I ever wore at that department was either because the person who was supposed to be doing that job wasn’t doing it; or when the position was up to be filled, no one took it. Furthermore, there were a lot of “hats” that I wore only for a few months at a time; until someone else came along to pick up that job.

    The fact that I end up with these “hats” is a simple matter of logistics. The department has always had a high turnover as a result of our local demographics. With a high turnover, which is typical in small rural departments, when you are fourth on the seniority list you end up getting tasked with a lot of jobs whether you like it or not!

    ---------------------

    Originally posted by pfire23
    Again, get your facts straight. For the record, water wasn't forth coming when the prime was pulled, so because I was not very experienced on that particular pump and didn't want to "break" anything by keeping the prime engaged for too long, I recognized that I was having a problem and immediately radioed for assistance, which happened to be your brother since he was the closest. You also failed to mention that once the pump was running there was NEVER a lapse in water supply or foam, water was drafted from the porta-tank without any problem.
    Your facts still have a bit of a curve to them as they are certainly NOT straight. Here is some additional information that you may not have known. Yes, mine not be straight either, but I think hearing another side to the same story might be entertaining.

    First, water wasn’t forth coming because the wrong valves where opened. I know those valves where closed when I started to lay out the lines because I was standing next to them while pulling hose off the truck (and no, they could not have been bumped open). As a pump operator it doesn’t take a lot of experience to know that if you are not getting a prime there is a leak in the system. Considering the exterior suction ports where all open while trying to pull of the onboard tank, that would certainly constitute the system not being tight.
    Second, you where radioed, not once, not twice, but three times to tell you to SHUT THE PUMP DOWN before it was shut down. In fact, some Mill Bay firefighters a few days later asked who was trying to prime for so long. Even though they where on the opposite flank they could still hear priming and priming and priming as if there was no tomorrow.
    Third, I was not the closest but rather I drew the short straw. We (the four of us on that crew) had just finished laying out the last of nearly 1000 feet of hose by hand through the bush and when it became evident that assistance was required at the pump a volunteer was asked for. No one volunteered, so once again like many of the “hats” that ended up wearing, I was asked to do the job.
    Fourth I am fairly sure that there was a loss of pressure during the change over because if I remember correctly the re-supply tender didn’t make it to us before the on board water ran out. I will confirm that in the next day or so.

    ---------------------

    As for this being a “Wilson’s War” it certainly is not. This insurance change effects six other departments, two of which did not have any insurance, two of which has similar coverage, and two of which had to reduce their covered. ALL of which are angry about the way it was implemented.

    When this entire issue started, Scott (former Chief) at a meeting told the membership exactly what was happening and gave them all a copy of the two different insurance policies. Later, after everyone was able to review the differences in policies, Scott asked the members what they would like him to do. There where two choices: Fight for the better insurance or signoff on it and accept the lesser coverage of the CVRD policy. Scott was not going to make the choice concerning the MEMBERS life insurance without input from them (something the CVRD criticized him of doing because as far as the CVRD was concerned it wasn’t any business of the firefighters what happens at an administration level), as he told me over and over that he could not in good conscience sign off on the insurance giving his firefighters less coverage.

    He was asked to fight for the better insurance; when in reality it isn’t “better” insurance, just the same as we have always had.

    ---------------------

    Mickey, to answer your question, no I have not opened up a lot of roofs in my time. That is something I will admit. As Jenn pointed out, there are not a lot of actual structure fires in our district (must be good fire prevention!) and as Gonzo point out, the majority of the structures are mobile homes, and you certainly wouldn’t find me or anyone else on my crew on the roof of a mobile home after/during a fire. That would be a safety issue, and we all know how concerned the ENTIRE forum seems to be about the safety of the Malahat Fire Department (funny how everyone can form an opinion without once asking anyone else other than Rick and Jenn. Where is the fabled BMI if everyone was so concerned? I would honestly enjoy them to give me a call, in fact, if anyone wants “the other side” of the story, PM or e-mail me your phone number, I will gladly foot the bill for the phone call regardless of where you live.)

    As for pipe time, if everyone needs to know, between the various practice burns over the years (and for everyone’s sake, I will NOT include “rocket runs” of which I have my fair share of) and the limited “real” fires and abundance of vehicle fires, in addition to live fire training in Nanaimo, I can say with confidence that I have more nozzle (or pipe) time than anyone else in the department.

    But the bottom line is, it doesn’t really matter how many roofs any of us have opened up or how many fires any of us have fought, because I am sure that without searching to hard I can find someone who has opened up or fought three or four times the number of anyone else and so on, and so on, and so on; so in the end it is all relative and really has nothing to do with the subject because if the truth be known, why not ask others, like Jenn for example, how many roofs she has opened up, or how many fires she has been into? If you want to question myself and Sarah, why not question everyone??? If you want to base opinion on experience, I can tell you that Sarah, despite the limited time in the department, has more than Jenn.

    If you want to get into a ****ing contest over who has been to more fires, who has opened more roofs, the difference between red and yellow fire engines, smooth bore or fog nozzles, than lets start another thread and I will be more than happy to throw in my 2 cents. Hell, even better, I think my phone service has five way calling, so lets have some fun. Gonzo, Mickey, Sarah, Jenn, myself... I wouldn't miss it for anything!

    ---------------------

    In closing, concerning the Rocket, I met a Captain with 20 years on the job with a Victoria area fire department who just happens to drive a snow plow in his off time. Two months ago he stopped at the department on his own accord (after plowing our driveway, which I am thankful for because it saved us from doing it by hand), and noticed the "Dreaded Rocket" and had a look at it. Last weekend I ran into him at a wedding and he said we are lucky, because he would trade his second due engine to have something like that to train his firefighters in. In fact, he asked that if we every got bored with it could he either 1) send his firefighters up for an evening or 2) rent a flat deck to relocate it to his department's training yard.
    Just food for thought.

    ---------------------

    Lastly, for the record, check my passport. I am Dixon, not a Wilson. ... so lets not generalize to much against "the family," since we are after all, the "don's" of the Malahat
    "No one ever called the Fire Department for doing something smart..."

  10. #50
    Forum Member DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
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    Default Re: the rocket

    In closing, concerning the Rocket, I met a Captain with 20 years on the job with a Victoria area fire department who just happens to drive a snow plow in his off time. Two months ago he stopped at the department on his own accord (after plowing our driveway, which I am thankful for because it saved us from doing it by hand), and noticed the "Dreaded Rocket" and had a look at it. Last weekend I ran into him at a wedding and he said we are lucky, because he would trade his second due engine to have something like that to train his firefighters in. In fact, he asked that if we every got bored with it could he either 1) send his firefighters up for an evening or 2) rent a flat deck to relocate it to his department's training yard.
    Just food for thought.
    For confined space rescue...maybe.. that is, unless

    According to OSHA my car is a confined space, yet I still drive it to work every day.
    You're using the car that day!
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  11. #51
    Forum Member firefighter26's Avatar
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    Hey, not everyone is fortunate enough to drive a pristine 1990 Mercury Topaz; Stock of course!

    Upper levels of society!
    "No one ever called the Fire Department for doing something smart..."

  12. #52
    Forum Member DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
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    Ahhh... the Topaz/Tempo twins. We cut up a Topaz a few months ago as part of a vehicle ex drill, twasn't much left after we were done. A few days afterwards, someone came by and mentioned that they saw it in the drill yard area and asked if they could salvage the taillight lenses...

    They were welcome to them... if they could find them
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  13. #53
    Forum Member firefighter26's Avatar
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    Originally posted by CaptainGonzo
    ..the Topaz/Tempo twins..
    It's a Topaz, not a Tempo... Tempo's were build by Ford; Topaz's where build by Ford in the same factory, but with a Mercury logo on the grill...

    Originally posted by CaptainGonzo
    A few days afterwards, someone came by and mentioned that they saw it in the drill yard area and asked if they could salvage the taillight lenses
    Yeah, that is funny because its true! Whenever something comes into the pit to be cut up there is a list of who wants what, from tires to engine blocks, even taillights (seen one guy ask if he could have the fuses out of chevette we were going to cut... sure, whatever makes you happy budy! :-))
    "No one ever called the Fire Department for doing something smart..."

  14. #54
    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
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    ALL of which are angry about the way it was implemented.
    Just curious, but did any of these other departments walk out? What (if anything) did they do about this?
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  15. #55
    Temporarily/No Longer Active ToughJustice's Avatar
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    Just curious, but did any of these other departments walk out? What (if anything) did they do about this?
    The other Fire Department who had reduced coverage claimed that they would walk out in support of our former Chief if anything like that came about. But they didn't not realy surprising though, it's a hard thing to leave behind, even if it is only for a short time. Every action that they took was all done through their association...things like writing letters and press releases, but nothing more.

    The other departments didn't like the way that it was implemented, but since their coverage wasn't jeopardized they didn't really have any reason to take the stance that we did. They don't really see the big picture here.

    Do any of these departments realize what it is that the CVRD is doing. They are trying to bring all six Fire Departments to the same standards, something that they cannot accomplish, one of the Department's who has and Airport in thier district vs. a tiny little Department (no I'm not talking about Malahat) who averages less than 20 calls per year, how can the standards of these halls be the same?
    They're not going to be able to accomplish bringing the standards of the smallest department up to meet the standards of the biggest department, so how do they make them equal? By lowering the standards of the bigger departments to meet that of the smaller.
    Our Fire Department has no tall buildings in our district so why would we need a laddar truck, but our hall gets call upon call of MVA's so we'll take all the rescue equipment that we can get. Not all districts are the same, so why would their halls be the same.

    Do any of these Departments realize that the CVRD is trying to remove the elections for Chief and Deputy in these departments and replacing it with a permanent appointment of a Chief of their choice.

    There's a bigger picture beyond the insurance, the insurance is just the tip of the iceberg, something too many people aren't seeing.

  16. #56
    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
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    They don't really see the big picture here.
    Answering emergency calls is the big picture. Going home safe after the call is the big picture. Better insurance than the "standard" package is not a big picture.

    What standards are they trying to make the same? Are they basic standards, like comparable to FF1? That is something that should be a standard. I'll agree, airport coverage is not something standard and would be needed by all. Basic First Aid and extrication would be good standards that should be comparable. Basic tasks/operations can be standard between the big/small departments with more specialized training for what an area needs.

    Do any of these Departments realize that the CVRD is trying to remove the elections for Chief and Deputy in these departments and replacing it with a permanent appointment of a Chief of their choice
    Is that a bad thing? What standards/requirements to all the departments have for their Chief and Deputies? Are any of them "good ole boy clubs" or do they all select the properly trained/educated/experienced people?


    Granted, I only know what I've read/seen here, but none of this sounds really bad.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  17. #57
    MembersZone Subscriber arhaney's Avatar
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    I really don't see anything wrong with getting all of the departments "on the same page". I wish someone in our county would take a hint and do the same! And yes the standards need to be the same for the big departments as well as the small ones. Does that mean you must have a ladder truck, HELL NO............. Just the same SOPs etc. Geeeeeeeeeezzzzzzzzzz Get a grip, Is there a conspiracy or something.................Look , look, there's green funky fanged winkerbeans crawling on walls, and they're going to take over our FD!!!!
    Last edited by arhaney; 03-15-2005 at 03:52 PM.
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    "Rest in peace James, you now have the ultimate set of wings on you."

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  18. #58
    Forum Member DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
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    It's a conspiracy...

    Actually, I see the entire matter as getting everyone on the same page. I went on the CVRD website and actually had the minutes of the meeting up before a slight power outage knocked me off line.unfortunately, I couldn't get back to the link. It qas in adobe reader format.

    It appears that the Malahat firefighters who walked out wanted to come back with a few condtions of their own..

    1. that they be allowed to increase their level of insurance.
    2. that everyone would return to their previous rank and senority.

    The motion was denied by the board.

    If the Malahat firefighters want to pay for their own insurance increase by taking out a supplemental policy as a group, I see that as being reasonable.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  19. #59
    Temporarily/No Longer Active ToughJustice's Avatar
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    Answering emergency calls is the big picture. Going home safe after the call is the big picture. Better insurance than the "standard" package is not a big picture.
    I agree that going to calls and coming home safe is important, you go there knowing your risks before you join. But reducing our coverage from what we had for the previous eight years is a slap in the face.
    How about the firefighter who recieved an eye injury and had an insurance claim in place at the time they canceled the insurance, now through the new insurance he won't get any coverage since it is concidered a pre-existing condition.
    How about the firefighter how did damage to the lens on her glasses at a call, and we payed for getting them fixed out of our minimal canteen money since the CVRD refused to cover it.

    Is that a bad thing? What standards/requirements to all the departments have for their Chief and Deputies? Are any of them "good ole boy clubs" or do they all select the properly trained/educated/experienced people?
    No this isn't an "ole boys club" the CVRD's policies and procedures for Chief and Deputy is to advertise the position, accept applications which are judged by the standards set out by the CVRD staff, interviews are held, elections are voted on by the members, and the recommendation is made to the board who decides if this person is worthy.
    Something that wasn't followed in the appointing of the current Chief.
    As for the current Chief being properly trained/educated/experienced is say again:
    The current Chief was the only person who caused the Fire Department to recieve a WCB sitation during the time of the Former Chief. Also the current Chief served as Chief prior to the Former Chief's election. During this time he recieved a more than 13 sitations from WCB all simultainiously. This is now the leader of your pack.
    And get this, we just recieved money in our budget to purchase a new Rescue truck and the current Chief's biggest beef with this is that he does not want to purchase a new truck but rather find an used one. Why question something good?

    Does that mean you must have a ladder truck, HELL NO............. Just the same SOPs etc.
    Actually our SOPs or SOGs as they were called here are controlled by the Chief.
    What they're trying to do is have each of the halls purchase the same equipment, turn-out gear, and such, again something that not all hall are going to have the same, because they all work under different conditions and know what they're going to need on a call. Everything that they want to look the same on paper is great, because we all know that what goes on, on paper and real life are two different things.

    Actually, I see the entire matter as getting everyone on the same page. I went on the CVRD website and actually had the minutes of the meeting up before a slight power outage knocked me off line.unfortunately, I couldn't get back to the link. It qas in adobe reader format.

    It appears that the Malahat firefighters who walked out wanted to come back with a few condtions of their own..

    1. that they be allowed to increase their level of insurance.
    2. that everyone would return to their previous rank and senority.

    The motion was denied by the board.

    If the Malahat firefighters want to pay for their own insurance increase by taking out a supplemental policy as a group, I see that as being reasonable.
    Good to see that your back when you have someone else slinging mudd. But again what's on paper isn't nessicarily what happened in real life. And again I say what suggestions that we made and were continualy shot down by the CVRD Staff.
    The members suggested that they keep their old policy in place until it ran out and during this period look into upgrading the new policy. To this the CVRD replied You cannot hold two policies at once without them cancelling each other out. This they claimed came directly from the insurance company.
    The members suggested that they upgrade the new policy to meet that of their old poicy as the CVRD said would be avaliable in a memo to the Chief. To this the CVRD replied This is unavaliable since it would cancel the savings that the Fire Departments recieved by buying in mass. clashing with what they had said previously.
    The members proceeded to suggest that they buy a seperate insurancy policy with the money out of their own pockets...something that we haven't had to do in a few years.
    The CVRD proceeded to ignore us, they would not listen to any of our suggestions, and further more they wouldn't even discuss any other options with us. It was like walking into a brick wall, a lying, cheating, government representation of a brick wall.
    Good suggestion but we already tried that one.

  20. #60
    Forum Member firefighter26's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Bones42
    Is that a bad thing? What standards/requirements to all the departments have for their Chief and Deputies? Are any of them "good ole boy clubs" or do they all select the properly trained/educated/experienced people?
    As per department elections, it is not a "good ole boys club" style that you may suggest. The CVRD, about 5-6 years, put in place a new election process.

    Basically, the position is posted along with a minimum qualifications list. Anyone wishing to apply submits a resume and cover letter which is reviewed by the CVRD. A CVRD committee then interviews all the applicants. That committee is made up of CVRD staff and an un-biased chief of a valley department (I believe Duncan's Chief was the last one to sit on the interview board). Then, based all that an eligibility list is created and set back the membership for them to vote on.

    After the vote, that recommendation is taken back the CVRD protective services for approval, which is then forwarded the CVRD board as a whole for approval.

    Originally posted by Bones42
    What standards are they trying to make the same? Are they basic standards, like comparable to FF1? That is something that should be a standard. I'll agree, airport coverage is not something standard and would be needed by all. Basic First Aid and extrication would be good standards that should be comparable. Basic tasks/operations can be standard between the big/small departments with more specialized training for what an area needs.
    First aid is standard with the FR program. All the fire departments in question use the same training program. In fact, before this all happened I was re-certing with some fire fighters from Sahtlam FD (one of the other department's involved).

    Here are some facts about the department's involved:

    The MVFD’s training budget for 2005 is larger than the entire budget (training, maintenance and capital expenditures) of one of the department’s in question.

    Also, as pointed out, when it comes to training things are vastly different. One fire department covers an airport, the other five don't.

    Four of the six don’t own a Jaws unit or basic extrication equipment, where as in our neck of the woods extrication has always been our specialty and MVAs make up 60% of our call volume.

    At the low end, one of the departments only runs 15 calls a year, where as at the other end of the spectrum, another department gets closer to 250-300 calls a year.

    One department operates out of two stations and has three engines, where as another recently purchased a “new” 1977 pumper, which was an upgrade from their '65 Ford.

    One department covers 66 square miles, another less than 15 square miles.

    One department uses the new MSAs with the mask HUD display, while the other still runs old Scotts with steel bottles.

    In principle, no it doesn’t sound bad. In fact, things like bulk purchasing of fire hose, etc, is something that our department suggested nearly six years ago.

    But that isn’t the case. Basically, how it is going to work (and I have seen the ground work being laid for this), is that department's will no longer have any say in the equipment they purchase, but rather it will be purchased for them (with little or no input from the FDs).

    However, as pointed out, the entire issue goes beyond the insurance, and even beyond the "standardization" of the six departments. The insurance was just the tip.

    ----------------------

    It took the CVRD six weeks to approve us purchasing 10 packs of new sawsall blades; in fact, I had to explain to them what a sawzall blade was and why we needed them.

    Mill Bay FD uses 4 inch supply line, so we decided we would purchase a 4" to 6" fitting so we could hook into their hi-vol system. That took nearly two months for them to "research" and approve us purchasing one; when they where provided with a two page report about what it was and why we needed it (and two pages it a lot to write about a single fitting).

    ----------------------

    Does everyone know what the CVRD told the ex-chief in a meeting the day we all resigned? I will fell everyone in.

    They told him that "his fire fighters didn't care about the community" that "they where being selfish" and that "if they didn't like what the CVRD was doing they could all quit. We (the CVRD) will either get new fire fighters or close the department" and lastly "the fire department isn't important to the community."

    Not to mention that between December 2004 and February 2005 the ex chief was verbally threatened three times and once again in writing, that if he didn't sign off on the insurance policy that his position was in jeopardy.

    In fact, at the same meeting mentioned above he was told if he didn’t sign off on it they would put in a new chief, and if he didn’t sign off on it, that new chief would be removed, and so on down the membership list until they found a chief what would.

    Does it sound like the CVRD is acting in the best interest of the fire departments and the fire fighters?
    "No one ever called the Fire Department for doing something smart..."

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