1. #51
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    Hey, not everyone is fortunate enough to drive a pristine 1990 Mercury Topaz; Stock of course!

    Upper levels of society!
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    Ahhh... the Topaz/Tempo twins. We cut up a Topaz a few months ago as part of a vehicle ex drill, twasn't much left after we were done. A few days afterwards, someone came by and mentioned that they saw it in the drill yard area and asked if they could salvage the taillight lenses...

    They were welcome to them... if they could find them
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    Originally posted by CaptainGonzo
    ..the Topaz/Tempo twins..
    It's a Topaz, not a Tempo... Tempo's were build by Ford; Topaz's where build by Ford in the same factory, but with a Mercury logo on the grill...

    Originally posted by CaptainGonzo
    A few days afterwards, someone came by and mentioned that they saw it in the drill yard area and asked if they could salvage the taillight lenses
    Yeah, that is funny because its true! Whenever something comes into the pit to be cut up there is a list of who wants what, from tires to engine blocks, even taillights (seen one guy ask if he could have the fuses out of chevette we were going to cut... sure, whatever makes you happy budy! :-))
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    ALL of which are angry about the way it was implemented.
    Just curious, but did any of these other departments walk out? What (if anything) did they do about this?
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Just curious, but did any of these other departments walk out? What (if anything) did they do about this?
    The other Fire Department who had reduced coverage claimed that they would walk out in support of our former Chief if anything like that came about. But they didn't not realy surprising though, it's a hard thing to leave behind, even if it is only for a short time. Every action that they took was all done through their association...things like writing letters and press releases, but nothing more.

    The other departments didn't like the way that it was implemented, but since their coverage wasn't jeopardized they didn't really have any reason to take the stance that we did. They don't really see the big picture here.

    Do any of these departments realize what it is that the CVRD is doing. They are trying to bring all six Fire Departments to the same standards, something that they cannot accomplish, one of the Department's who has and Airport in thier district vs. a tiny little Department (no I'm not talking about Malahat) who averages less than 20 calls per year, how can the standards of these halls be the same?
    They're not going to be able to accomplish bringing the standards of the smallest department up to meet the standards of the biggest department, so how do they make them equal? By lowering the standards of the bigger departments to meet that of the smaller.
    Our Fire Department has no tall buildings in our district so why would we need a laddar truck, but our hall gets call upon call of MVA's so we'll take all the rescue equipment that we can get. Not all districts are the same, so why would their halls be the same.

    Do any of these Departments realize that the CVRD is trying to remove the elections for Chief and Deputy in these departments and replacing it with a permanent appointment of a Chief of their choice.

    There's a bigger picture beyond the insurance, the insurance is just the tip of the iceberg, something too many people aren't seeing.

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    They don't really see the big picture here.
    Answering emergency calls is the big picture. Going home safe after the call is the big picture. Better insurance than the "standard" package is not a big picture.

    What standards are they trying to make the same? Are they basic standards, like comparable to FF1? That is something that should be a standard. I'll agree, airport coverage is not something standard and would be needed by all. Basic First Aid and extrication would be good standards that should be comparable. Basic tasks/operations can be standard between the big/small departments with more specialized training for what an area needs.

    Do any of these Departments realize that the CVRD is trying to remove the elections for Chief and Deputy in these departments and replacing it with a permanent appointment of a Chief of their choice
    Is that a bad thing? What standards/requirements to all the departments have for their Chief and Deputies? Are any of them "good ole boy clubs" or do they all select the properly trained/educated/experienced people?


    Granted, I only know what I've read/seen here, but none of this sounds really bad.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    I really don't see anything wrong with getting all of the departments "on the same page". I wish someone in our county would take a hint and do the same! And yes the standards need to be the same for the big departments as well as the small ones. Does that mean you must have a ladder truck, HELL NO............. Just the same SOPs etc. Geeeeeeeeeezzzzzzzzzz Get a grip, Is there a conspiracy or something.................Look, look, there's green funky fanged winkerbeans crawling on walls, and they're going to take over our FD!!!!
    Last edited by arhaney; 03-15-2005 at 04:52 PM.
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    It's a conspiracy...

    Actually, I see the entire matter as getting everyone on the same page. I went on the CVRD website and actually had the minutes of the meeting up before a slight power outage knocked me off line.unfortunately, I couldn't get back to the link. It qas in adobe reader format.

    It appears that the Malahat firefighters who walked out wanted to come back with a few condtions of their own..

    1. that they be allowed to increase their level of insurance.
    2. that everyone would return to their previous rank and senority.

    The motion was denied by the board.

    If the Malahat firefighters want to pay for their own insurance increase by taking out a supplemental policy as a group, I see that as being reasonable.
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    Answering emergency calls is the big picture. Going home safe after the call is the big picture. Better insurance than the "standard" package is not a big picture.
    I agree that going to calls and coming home safe is important, you go there knowing your risks before you join. But reducing our coverage from what we had for the previous eight years is a slap in the face.
    How about the firefighter who recieved an eye injury and had an insurance claim in place at the time they canceled the insurance, now through the new insurance he won't get any coverage since it is concidered a pre-existing condition.
    How about the firefighter how did damage to the lens on her glasses at a call, and we payed for getting them fixed out of our minimal canteen money since the CVRD refused to cover it.

    Is that a bad thing? What standards/requirements to all the departments have for their Chief and Deputies? Are any of them "good ole boy clubs" or do they all select the properly trained/educated/experienced people?
    No this isn't an "ole boys club" the CVRD's policies and procedures for Chief and Deputy is to advertise the position, accept applications which are judged by the standards set out by the CVRD staff, interviews are held, elections are voted on by the members, and the recommendation is made to the board who decides if this person is worthy.
    Something that wasn't followed in the appointing of the current Chief.
    As for the current Chief being properly trained/educated/experienced is say again:
    The current Chief was the only person who caused the Fire Department to recieve a WCB sitation during the time of the Former Chief. Also the current Chief served as Chief prior to the Former Chief's election. During this time he recieved a more than 13 sitations from WCB all simultainiously. This is now the leader of your pack.
    And get this, we just recieved money in our budget to purchase a new Rescue truck and the current Chief's biggest beef with this is that he does not want to purchase a new truck but rather find an used one. Why question something good?

    Does that mean you must have a ladder truck, HELL NO............. Just the same SOPs etc.
    Actually our SOPs or SOGs as they were called here are controlled by the Chief.
    What they're trying to do is have each of the halls purchase the same equipment, turn-out gear, and such, again something that not all hall are going to have the same, because they all work under different conditions and know what they're going to need on a call. Everything that they want to look the same on paper is great, because we all know that what goes on, on paper and real life are two different things.

    Actually, I see the entire matter as getting everyone on the same page. I went on the CVRD website and actually had the minutes of the meeting up before a slight power outage knocked me off line.unfortunately, I couldn't get back to the link. It qas in adobe reader format.

    It appears that the Malahat firefighters who walked out wanted to come back with a few condtions of their own..

    1. that they be allowed to increase their level of insurance.
    2. that everyone would return to their previous rank and senority.

    The motion was denied by the board.

    If the Malahat firefighters want to pay for their own insurance increase by taking out a supplemental policy as a group, I see that as being reasonable.
    Good to see that your back when you have someone else slinging mudd. But again what's on paper isn't nessicarily what happened in real life. And again I say what suggestions that we made and were continualy shot down by the CVRD Staff.
    The members suggested that they keep their old policy in place until it ran out and during this period look into upgrading the new policy. To this the CVRD replied You cannot hold two policies at once without them cancelling each other out. This they claimed came directly from the insurance company.
    The members suggested that they upgrade the new policy to meet that of their old poicy as the CVRD said would be avaliable in a memo to the Chief. To this the CVRD replied This is unavaliable since it would cancel the savings that the Fire Departments recieved by buying in mass. clashing with what they had said previously.
    The members proceeded to suggest that they buy a seperate insurancy policy with the money out of their own pockets...something that we haven't had to do in a few years.
    The CVRD proceeded to ignore us, they would not listen to any of our suggestions, and further more they wouldn't even discuss any other options with us. It was like walking into a brick wall, a lying, cheating, government representation of a brick wall.
    Good suggestion but we already tried that one.

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    Originally posted by Bones42
    Is that a bad thing? What standards/requirements to all the departments have for their Chief and Deputies? Are any of them "good ole boy clubs" or do they all select the properly trained/educated/experienced people?
    As per department elections, it is not a "good ole boys club" style that you may suggest. The CVRD, about 5-6 years, put in place a new election process.

    Basically, the position is posted along with a minimum qualifications list. Anyone wishing to apply submits a resume and cover letter which is reviewed by the CVRD. A CVRD committee then interviews all the applicants. That committee is made up of CVRD staff and an un-biased chief of a valley department (I believe Duncan's Chief was the last one to sit on the interview board). Then, based all that an eligibility list is created and set back the membership for them to vote on.

    After the vote, that recommendation is taken back the CVRD protective services for approval, which is then forwarded the CVRD board as a whole for approval.

    Originally posted by Bones42
    What standards are they trying to make the same? Are they basic standards, like comparable to FF1? That is something that should be a standard. I'll agree, airport coverage is not something standard and would be needed by all. Basic First Aid and extrication would be good standards that should be comparable. Basic tasks/operations can be standard between the big/small departments with more specialized training for what an area needs.
    First aid is standard with the FR program. All the fire departments in question use the same training program. In fact, before this all happened I was re-certing with some fire fighters from Sahtlam FD (one of the other department's involved).

    Here are some facts about the department's involved:

    The MVFDís training budget for 2005 is larger than the entire budget (training, maintenance and capital expenditures) of one of the departmentís in question.

    Also, as pointed out, when it comes to training things are vastly different. One fire department covers an airport, the other five don't.

    Four of the six donít own a Jaws unit or basic extrication equipment, where as in our neck of the woods extrication has always been our specialty and MVAs make up 60% of our call volume.

    At the low end, one of the departments only runs 15 calls a year, where as at the other end of the spectrum, another department gets closer to 250-300 calls a year.

    One department operates out of two stations and has three engines, where as another recently purchased a ďnewĒ 1977 pumper, which was an upgrade from their '65 Ford.

    One department covers 66 square miles, another less than 15 square miles.

    One department uses the new MSAs with the mask HUD display, while the other still runs old Scotts with steel bottles.

    In principle, no it doesnít sound bad. In fact, things like bulk purchasing of fire hose, etc, is something that our department suggested nearly six years ago.

    But that isnít the case. Basically, how it is going to work (and I have seen the ground work being laid for this), is that department's will no longer have any say in the equipment they purchase, but rather it will be purchased for them (with little or no input from the FDs).

    However, as pointed out, the entire issue goes beyond the insurance, and even beyond the "standardization" of the six departments. The insurance was just the tip.

    ----------------------

    It took the CVRD six weeks to approve us purchasing 10 packs of new sawsall blades; in fact, I had to explain to them what a sawzall blade was and why we needed them.

    Mill Bay FD uses 4 inch supply line, so we decided we would purchase a 4" to 6" fitting so we could hook into their hi-vol system. That took nearly two months for them to "research" and approve us purchasing one; when they where provided with a two page report about what it was and why we needed it (and two pages it a lot to write about a single fitting).

    ----------------------

    Does everyone know what the CVRD told the ex-chief in a meeting the day we all resigned? I will fell everyone in.

    They told him that "his fire fighters didn't care about the community" that "they where being selfish" and that "if they didn't like what the CVRD was doing they could all quit. We (the CVRD) will either get new fire fighters or close the department" and lastly "the fire department isn't important to the community."

    Not to mention that between December 2004 and February 2005 the ex chief was verbally threatened three times and once again in writing, that if he didn't sign off on the insurance policy that his position was in jeopardy.

    In fact, at the same meeting mentioned above he was told if he didnít sign off on it they would put in a new chief, and if he didnít sign off on it, that new chief would be removed, and so on down the membership list until they found a chief what would.

    Does it sound like the CVRD is acting in the best interest of the fire departments and the fire fighters?
    "No one ever called the Fire Department for doing something smart..."

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    It took the CVRD six weeks to approve us purchasing 10 packs of new sawsall blades; in fact, I had to explain to them what a sawzall blade was and why we needed them.
    Mill Bay FD uses 4 inch supply line, so we decided we would purchase a 4" to 6" fitting so we could hook into their hi-vol system. That took nearly two months for them to "research" and approve us purchasing one; when they where provided with a two page report about what it was and why we needed it (and two pages it a lot to write about a single fitting).

    Ok, that's really screwed up! Who's on that board? Are you guys represented at all?
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    Originally posted by CaptainGonzo
    I went on the CVRD website and actually had the minutes of the meeting up before a slight power outage knocked me off line. unfortunately, I couldn't get back to the link. It qas in adobe reader format.

    It appears that the Malahat firefighters who walked out wanted to come back with a few condtions of their own..

    1. that they be allowed to increase their level of insurance.
    2. that everyone would return to their previous rank and senority.

    The motion was denied by the board.
    Capt., I was the one that gave that presentation the CVRD protective services committee (so I feel my opinion does mean something on that matter). You have to remember the context in which it was given. IE, what was going on at the time in early Feb.

    The CVRD website is www.cvrd.bc.ca

    Also, I will at some time later today post my notes as well as a copy of the hand-outs that I gave to all the attending directors so that everyone can see exactly what it was that I presented.

    Originally posted by CaptainGonzo
    If the Malahat firefighters want to pay for their own insurance increase by taking out a supplemental policy as a group, I see that as being reasonable.
    This is something we asked for prior to all this happening.

    In a memo from the CVRD they themselves said that the insurance provider was prepaired to provide enhanced packages to meet the needs of individual fire departments without increasing the cost of the basic package to the other departments (and offered to pay for that additional increase ourselves). This is what we were refering to in the presentation. That the department be allowed to purchase this enhanced package that they refered to.

    In fact, it should be known that there where THREE points in question that I presented, not two. So even the CVRD paperwork doesn't tell entire story.

    Since it was denied, we are all willing to go back at entry level if that is what it takes, which will be a bit of an insult to some of the guys with 11 and 17 years experience, but that was the price to pay to get our story to the public... a small price.

    I am running late and I don't have the paperwork in front of me, so I will post more later this evening.
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    Default Well Firefighter 26

    YOUR sister came on these threads spewing ugly garbage. I am well aware of the antics up there. I also know no one is totally blameless in this world. I am a peaceful man. BUT, when a friend is attacked, you might as well go after me too. It was never my intent to one up anyone or be mean for that matter. BUT I am a true believer in "keepin it real" and I will not back down when I know a bad deal when I see it. One more thing. You can quote anyone in the world extoling the virtues of your beloved "rocket". No argument in the world would ever change my opinion of that glorified outhouse. Yes,it was me who pointed out to said former member the dangers of that thing. And that was just from a picture. I did see it up close and personal. That just re-affirmed what I already knew. You think I was bad about it. Just think what George W. CFI would tell you about that thing. I used to be amused by the adventures of the MVFD. But I have been around long enough to know what little fire departments can be like. And sometimes it aint so pretty.
    IAFF-IACOJ PROUD

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    Ok, that's really screwed up! Who's on that board? Are you guys represented at all?
    Ya that is screwed up, that's what we're trying to point out here, it's not all black and white.
    The CVRD staff is anyone who is hired to work there.
    The members of the board are the elected regional directors of different areas (Our area is Mill Bay/Malahat). When you are elected it is required that you be member of a certain number of commitees...these commitees get recommendations from the CVRD staff. The commitee that we answer to is the Protective Services Commitee. Above the commitees is the Board, which is made up of ALL of the regional directors...the board takes it's recommendations from each of these commitees, then votes and in a majority either passes or denies each recommendation.

    So basically all of our problems are voted on by all these people, only one of which has anything to do with our district, all of the other people can live at the other end of the Cowichan Valley and they still get an opinion things that effect us. So yes, we are represented, but no, not properly.

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    Originally posted by ToughJustice


    Ya that is screwed up, that's what we're trying to point out here, it's not all black and white.
    The CVRD staff is anyone who is hired to work there.
    The members of the board are the elected regional directors of different areas (Our area is Mill Bay/Malahat). When you are elected it is required that you be member of a certain number of commitees...these commitees get recommendations from the CVRD staff. The commitee that we answer to is the Protective Services Commitee. Above the commitees is the Board, which is made up of ALL of the regional directors...the board takes it's recommendations from each of these commitees, then votes and in a majority either passes or denies each recommendation.

    So basically all of our problems are voted on by all these people, only one of which has anything to do with our district, all of the other people can live at the other end of the Cowichan Valley and they still get an opinion things that effect us. So yes, we are represented, but no, not properly.
    Welcome to the world of politics.
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