1. #1
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    Default Guess who's on Dateline NBC tonight...Doug Copp

    I don't know what kind of treatment the story will give him but one of our favorite charlatans will be on Dateline tonight. I hope they had some milk bones in the green room.

    For the newbies, here are some links to previous discussions about Mr. Copp:

    Anyone remember Doug Copp?

    Doug Copp...

    Fraud...or Courage?

    Here's the NBC episode description:

    SUNDAY, FEBRUARY 27 - 7:00 PM ET

    Doug Copp, a worldwide tragedy rescuer, came to Ground Zero to save lives and find bodies. He later claimed his 9/11 efforts made him ill and as a result, the government paid him hundreds of thousands of dollars. However, new allegations about the validity of his claims have recently surfaced and Dateline's John Hockenberry asks: Was he really helping others or just helping himself?
    Last edited by EFD840; 02-27-2005 at 07:18 PM.

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    Anyone wanna spell...

    MUTT?
    Quote Originally Posted by ThNozzleMan
    Why? Because we are firemen. We are decent human beings. We would be compelled by the overwhelming impulse to save an innocent child from a tragic, painful death because in the end, we are MEN.

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    Default

    Oh well, I guess I shouldn't trust the TV guide before I start a thread. Apparently they bumped the story.

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    Its ok, Dukes of Hazzard marathon was on this weekend. Much more interesting.
    I dont suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.

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    that S less excuse of a human needs to be brought down. He must be related to Donna. I feel sad that he's Canadian, it really puts a black mark on my national pride. I would ove to see hi planted in jail.
    Last edited by Thaddie; 02-28-2005 at 02:43 AM.

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    Firefighter Robert Ryan was an Ironman — competing in grueling triathlons across the globe as well as tackling fires. But his days of swimming 2.4 miles, cycling 112 miles and running 26.2 miles in succession, and fighting fires are over.
    The World Trade Center disaster, he said, has destroyed his health. These days, Ryan can't climb the stairs without running short of breath — one of the symptoms he attributes to breathing foul air and dust for months while working on the search and recovery efforts at Ground Zero. "I tire easily now," said Ryan, 46. "It's a scary situation. I have to be on medication the rest of my life." Ryan, a firefighter with Ladder 30 in Harlem, is assigned to light duty. He has applied for a retirement disability pension due to work-related illnesses caused by working in an environmental disaster zone. Ryan was diagnosed with asthma, and said he suffers from sinus conditions, chest pains and persistent throat problems and acid indigestion. "It's like heartburn multiplied by 100," he said of the burning sensation in his throat and chest that sometimes wake him in the middle of the night. Now, he worries about providing for his 5-year-old son, Matthew. Because his serious respiratory and asthmatic conditions didn't surface until 2003, the federal 9/11 Victims Compensation Fund rejected his application for benefits. The fund had distributed $627 million to 1,388 injured firefighters and $84.7 million to 205 cops. Stunned and angered by the lack of support, Ryan is one of a growing number of municipal workers and other volunteers who've filed multimillion-dollar negligence suits against the city and Ground Zero operators, claiming the bosses failed to provide adequate respiratory gear to protect them from pollutants. I was the first person in my firehouse to get sick. I know guys who are getting the same symptoms," said Ryan, during an interview with his lawyers. Ryan said workers were driven by saving lives and helping put the city back on its feet during the five-month rescue, recovery and cleanup effort — not obsessed about their own health.
    "If you had trouble breathing, you went to get a drink of water. It was tunnel vision. We had a job to do. That's all that mattered at the time," Ryan recalled. "No matter, breathing this stuff couldn't be good for you. We were constantly getting bombarded with dust in our face." But while firefighters were trying to save people and restore the city, Ryan said, the unprepared brass didn't protect them.
    Dr. Michael Weiden, a medical officer in the city Fire Department, has likened breathing WTC dust, consisting of pulverized concrete, fibrous glass, carbon particulates and asbestos, to "swallowing or inhaling Drano."
    ALL GAVE SOME BUT SOME GAVE ALL
    NEVER FORGET 9-11-01
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    LT. John Ginley Engine 40
    FF. Bruce Gary Engine 40
    FF. Jimmy Giberson Ladder 35
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    FF. Michael Roberts Ladder 35 *
    FF. Michael Lynch Engine 40
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    Charleston 9
    "If my job was easy a cop would be doing it."
    *******************CLICK HERE*****************

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    Stunned and angered by the lack of support, Ryan is one of a growing number of municipal workers and other volunteers who've filed multimillion-dollar negligence suits against the city and Ground Zero operators, claiming the bosses failed to provide adequate respiratory gear to protect them from pollutants. I was the first person in my firehouse to get sick. I know guys who are getting the same symptoms," said Ryan, during an interview with his lawyers. Ryan said workers were driven by saving lives and helping put the city back on its feet during the five-month rescue, recovery and cleanup effort — not obsessed about their own health.
    Ok.. Before I get flamed, beaten, tarred and feathered by E40FDNYL35.. I wasn't there, so I don't know what happened, didn't personally experience the devastation and loss (except in the way that most all other firefighters around the world felt on and after 9/11)and can't say with any conviction what protocols were established..

    However..

    As a member of a district group of Firefighters / Inspectors, we routinely meet and have guest speakers talk about various aspects of the job or subjects relating to it. Last year one of the speakers was a member of the OSHA teams assigned to 'ground zero' to monitor air pollution and ensure personnel working in that environment wore appropriate respiratory protection. As you can imagine, being firefighters ourselves, and having seen much of the aftermath and clean up rescue efforts from the relative comfort of TV, we asked about the firefighters and 'why / how come' most of them weren't wearing any breathing protection devices. The answer, and it really didn't suprise us was that the OSHA personnel were told to make the masks available, but not push or force the FDNY into wearing them unless they wanted the offered respirators physically rammed down their throats.

    Now I understand that emotions were at an incredible level, and that immediately following the collapse, there was no real options available to the firefighters there' than to breath the dust while they worked tirelessly to save who ever they could. But, and perhaps someone else can answer, is it really true that no respiratory protection was offered to firefighters for the remaining duration of clean up??? If so - then obviously what I heard is questionable and let the lawsuits fly! Or was the firefighter in the quote talking about other firefighters working away from 'ground zero' but still impacted by airborn pollutants??

    Just wondering. Oh and that Doug Copp guy, what a wanker.
    Last edited by Fawlty; 02-28-2005 at 09:10 AM.

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    I attended a seminar in 2002 where an employee of the New York office of the Occupational Safety and Health Administration told the crowd that they were in place on the second day of the tragedy. She had a PowerPoint presentation that included pictures of their tent and the WTC Ground Zero site.
    Now, it is my opinion that someone had to have been monitoring the air for certain particulates in order to properly select the correct cartridges for the masks. Fit tests would have been done on anyone wearing a respirator.
    Many were seen wearing them as necklaces.
    And it has been accepted in certain circles that, due to the extraordinary scope of the disaster, some latitude was given with regards to OSHA regs.
    I think I remember reading somewhere that berylium was a concern?
    Ray; am I confusing this with something else?
    From my experience as a safety person, products that are small enough to be inhaled will find their way to the air path. Whether you were standing on top of Ground Zero or many blocks away, I believe that air-borne particulates were present that could cause potential health concerns. And think about de-con. If they were covered in the dust AFTER they took off their respirators, they were getting contaminants. If it wasn't treated like a full blown hazmat response with all the PPE and de-con, then I am not surprised in the least that there are lingering affects.
    These are not people looking to sue for personal gain. They are suing to get medical treatment now and forever.
    And we should support that.
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    September 14, 2001 -- EPA administrator (at the time) Christine Todd Whitman is quoted by Newsweek saying that the smoke plume at the World Trade Center disaster site is “not a health problem.”
    ALL GAVE SOME BUT SOME GAVE ALL
    NEVER FORGET 9-11-01
    343
    CAPT. Frank Callahan Ladder 35 *
    LT. John Ginley Engine 40
    FF. Bruce Gary Engine 40
    FF. Jimmy Giberson Ladder 35
    FF. Michael Otten Ladder 35 *
    FF. Steve Mercado Engine 40 *
    FF. Kevin Bracken Engine 40 *
    FF. Vincent Morello Ladder 35
    FF. Michael Roberts Ladder 35 *
    FF. Michael Lynch Engine 40
    FF. Michael Dauria Engine 40

    Charleston 9
    "If my job was easy a cop would be doing it."
    *******************CLICK HERE*****************

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    Not sure how Robert Ryan fits in here. . . am I reading something in that I shouldn't, or did I miss something?

    There are plenty of people facing dire circumstances as a result of their participation in the WTC rescue/recovery. They deserve much more support and assistance than they are ever likely to receive. I thought the point of the thread was that Doug Copp isn't one of them.
    ullrichk
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