View Poll Results: 1 tanker or 2?

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  • run with one tanker?

    3 16.67%
  • run with two?

    15 83.33%
  1. #1
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    Default 1 tanker or 2 ? input please

    we are a mid sized voulenteer fire dept with mutual aid agreements with other towns all about 12 miles away, we have some very nice euq ., 2 main pumpers(02,95)a backup for the city(74)a rescue,a brush rig , 2 tankers(00,75) the 75 's tank is about a 1950tank its a gasser its real tired , some of the guys on our dept would like to replace /upgrade it not ,necessarily new but 95 up , our cheif has taken the position that at NO point has having two tankers ever made a differance he thinks it was either a couple thousand gallons or 50,000 gallons and we could just get by and call mutual aid , we are the county seat (largest population centraly located)all area depts have two and some three (one with four)how do you feel? any help in arguing FOR a replacement or is the ol fart right?(i'm sure he'll read this )thanks in advance!

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    We have 2 small tankers (1200 ea.) and are considering replacing one of them with a 2000 or so. I'm leaning towards getting by with 1 at our main station and moving the smaller one to our 2nd station that is 10 miles away. We, too, have MA depts. all around which is why I think we can make do with one bigger tanker. If the MA depts. can get there within 10 minutes or so, it would work real well.
    Sorry, but I guess I agree with your chief.
    Jack Boczek, Chief
    Ashley Community Fire Protection District

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  3. #3
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    Pro to two: If one is out-of-service, you have a backup.
    (Of course, if we organized fire protection on a county/regional-level and they had one or two spares, that eliminates that concern )

    Con: Need two drivers.

    Generally, one big tanker as long as your roads & bridges can handle it will out perform two smaller tankers.
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    If you need one...you are most likely gonna need two. Run them both..
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    Here's our setup and why I think it works well.

    We're also a centrally-located community (county seat) and work with several MA departments. We have a tanker, a pumper, and a tanker/pumper combo. It's nice to have 2 tankers available - if we get called for MA, we still have a tanker available for our district. If we get called for a structure fire in one of our (hydranted) MA towns, we can take our pumper and leave our tanker/pumper available to respond to calls in our own district (or vice versa).

    We recently had a large industrial fire just outside of our town - no adequate hydrants. We ended up calling for tankers from 7 communities besides our own 2 tankers. We had a constant water shuttle running - never ran low on water. But, until the MA towns could arrive, it was nice to have two tankers of our own to start shuttling.

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    We currently run with one 1800 gallon tanker and a 500 gallon engine and have to MA companies on automatic call out for structure fires so the tanker shuttle is comming together before we even on scene. I can se the benefit of having two tankers of your own. MA has their own responibilites to their district and can be out on their own or need to leave your operation to take care of their calls. We're looking into a 1000 gallon pumper/tanker to do both the jobs. These seem to be the way things are going in my area. You have a decent amount of water going with a tanker and pumper/tanker. Dump the tanker in a portable and get it headed to fill, work off tank water to start and the tanker is hopefully back before the pumper runs too low.

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    I know this about FD's ...........one you dont replace something (or give it up) you never get it back. I would go with the 2 tankers, can you ever have enough water ?http://cms.firehouse.com/forums2/sho...threadid=67069
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    Until recently we were running an engine (1000gpm/1000gal) and a pumper/tanker (1500gpm/1500gal). Due to our lack of manpower we decided to replace the engine with an 81 Hahn Snorkel. 99% of the time we only manage to get the pumper/tanker out the door with a full crew. By taking the second engine off the run card our pumper/tanker is first out and the Snorkel will only be used if needed for mutual aid being that we only have one building in our township that we can use the Snorkel on. We have 5 MA departments withen 10 miles of us so that works out well with manpower and water supply. But if we had the manpower I would definately agree on having 2 tankers or pumper/tankers.
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  9. #9
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    I'm luckier than most Chiefs, in that adequate water is not a concern here. BUT, having said that, the "old country boy" attitude in me comes out. Don't settle for two tankers, try to have three. No, I'm not being sarcastic, or crazy. If you don't have water, your well trained people, your well maintained apparatus, your well thought out Preplans and SOGs, all aren't worth a damn. With a need for some redundancy in your fleet, go for a Pumper/Tanker type unit. My personal favorites are those of the Fallon/Churchill VFD in Nevada. Think outside the box, and think BIG.
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    Until recently we were running an engine (1000gpm/1000gal) and a pumper/tanker (1500gpm/1500gal). Due to our lack of manpower we decided to replace the engine with an 81 Hahn Snorkel. 99% of the time we only manage to get the pumper/tanker out the door with a full crew. By taking the second engine off the run card our pumper/tanker is first out and the Snorkel will only be used if needed for mutual aid being that we only have one building in our township that we can use the Snorkel on. We have 5 MA departments withen 10 miles of us so that works out well with manpower and water supply. But if we had the manpower I would definately agree on having 2 tankers or pumper/tankers.
    So what youre saying is that you got rid of a piece of apparatus that worked everywhere in the community with a piece of apparatus that will work on one, or a few places?

    Wow. Sounds great.
    Quote Originally Posted by ThNozzleMan
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  11. #11
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    I would stick with two. We have three and another that can be used as a tanker if needed. 3,200 gal, 3,500 gal, 1,500 gal. and a 6 X 6 that can be pressed into service as a tanker. It has a dump valve but is sssslllllllllloooooooooowwwwwwwwwwww. I have to confess that we are trying to get rid of the old 1,500 gallon tanker, it hasn't been to a fire in 3 years now.
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  12. #12
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    Being that your mutual aid is 12 miles away I'd go with two. If you shop around you should be able to find a couple of used tankers in the years you're looking for.
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    The Snorkel will benefit our mutual aid departments more than us. We purchased it for that reason, plus our second engine is on loan to a mutual aid department and will be sold after they get their engine back. We are trying to establish a versatile dept to help our surrounding communities with equipment they dont have. We are one of a few volly depts in this county that ha a cascade system let alone a thermal camera.
    Think!! This Might Be The Day You Dont Come Home!

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  14. #14
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    Originally posted by spowers
    The Snorkel will benefit our mutual aid departments more than us. We purchased it for that reason, plus our second engine is on loan to a mutual aid department and will be sold after they get their engine back. We are trying to establish a versatile dept to help our surrounding communities with equipment they dont have. We are one of a few volly depts in this county that ha a cascade system let alone a thermal camera.
    So making your department work better for others is better then finding ways to provide your community with what it needs first?

    I know where I don't want to live now.
    Quote Originally Posted by ThNozzleMan
    Why? Because we are firemen. We are decent human beings. We would be compelled by the overwhelming impulse to save an innocent child from a tragic, painful death because in the end, we are MEN.

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    I would use 2. If you are using foldatanks like we do, you can use 2 foldatanks, and just back up to one. While one is dumping the other is traveling/filling. Use a jet assist to move water from one tank to another. With 3 tankers, our 2, 1 2500, 1 3000, and with the mutual aid 2000 gallon, off of tanker shuttle alone, we can supply 750-900gpm, without interruption, depending on length of travel of tankers.

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    Well, for 1. This is the safest township in the county. And for 2. We havent had a working fire in this township in almost 3 years. If you lived here you would understand our logic. But instead you decide to bust my chops.
    Think!! This Might Be The Day You Dont Come Home!

    East Fallowfield Fire & Rescue
    Station 13
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    Default snorkle/1000 gal tanker

    spowers
    i think its great that your dept thinks about ma depts but im sure your dept need something that could have benifited your community some how (maybe not) i think we rely on ma depts way to much i know we need them but someday they might not be there when needed


    revfd
    also is a 1000 gal eng really considered a tanker we have 2 1000 gal engs does that mean we have 2 eng tankers i dont think so if your gonna get a et at least go 1500 gal

  18. #18
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    I have to vote for two tankers, unless you don't have the manpower to run them (which becomes a bigger issue if true).

    * Someone already said - if you give it up, you may never get it back later if you change your mind. If you REALLY don't want a tanker any more, perhaps you can turn the equity into another piece of apparatus (grass rig, light rescue, utility, suburban, etc)

    * Outfit the tanker with a reel and 250GPM pump, and you get two new features: (1) backup engine, or (2) LARGE grass rig. If you make the pump detachable or carry hard suction, then the tanker is also self-filling at draft sites. Then it is no longer an issue of 1 vs 2 tankers, but possibly losing your backup engine/grass rig/fill station.

    * Always nice to have a backup when one is out of service.

    * Always nice to have a piece ready to be available for second calls. MA is sometimes to scary to rely on too heavily.

    * Jockeying big tankers into cramped dump or fill sites can be problematic. Nimble little tankers make it easier to get in and get out (and not get stuck).

    * How big are your dump tanks? Do you double or triple them with hard suction? If not, the real limit on how much water you leave behind for the engine is based on the dump tank size and not on your tanker's capacity. Sure, you brought a lot of water, but you can't leave for more until you're empty, and by the time you're empty, how much water is in the dump tank to tide them over until you get back? With smaller tankers, the second one is on the way back or already waiting when the first one pulls out to get refilled.

    Just can't see running one if given the option for two, sorry.
    Last edited by RLFD14; 03-02-2005 at 12:45 PM.

  19. #19
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    Well, for 1. This is the safest township in the county. And for 2. We havent had a working fire in this township in almost 3 years. If you lived here you would understand our logic. But instead you decide to bust my chops.
    So because you haven't had a big working fire for three years, it's okay to start making your department benefit others, and not your community?

    What about a second call? The second pump would have been nice then, no? What if your pumper goes out of service? You're pretty well screwed aren't you? Oh wait, you can rely on all your mutual aide departments to take care of it for you.
    Quote Originally Posted by ThNozzleMan
    Why? Because we are firemen. We are decent human beings. We would be compelled by the overwhelming impulse to save an innocent child from a tragic, painful death because in the end, we are MEN.

    I A C O J
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    Honorary Disclaimer: While I am a manufacturer representative, I am not here to sell my product. Any advice or knowledge shared is for informational purposes only. I do not use Firehouse.Com for promotional purposes.

  20. #20
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    I personally would go with at least two tankers, and do as Harve said, and go with a pumper/tanker. Or at least a tanker with a pump that is capable of supplying not only volume, but pressure.

    Spowers: It is good that you are thinking about helping your neighbors, but what are you going to do when a single story building is on fire, and your mutual aid is tied up or something else happens? Your snorkel isn't going to help much in a situation like that. And just because you haven't had a working fire in 3 years doesn't mean it can't happen at any time. It isn't a matter of if, it is a matter of when.
    -Bozz

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    Well might I add, This Hahn Snorkel also has a 1500 gpm pump and a 500 gal tank. Nowhere near a tanker but one heck of a pumper. If a second engine is needed that bad, well there ya go, roll the Snorkel. So no, we wouldnt be screwed. The Snorkel can still respond as an attack engine bein that that is what the truck was origionally designed for when it was spec'd out. It just has the benefit of having a 55' boom with a platform and if nothing else, an elevated master stream. So you see, we still have the redundancy of having a backup engine.
    Think!! This Might Be The Day You Dont Come Home!

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    Thanks for a little clarification there, spowers. That decision makes a little more sense now.
    -Bozz

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    Wink 1 or 2 tankers

    The subject of tankers is a tough one, in the last five years as Matts Chief we have upgraded our tanker to a 2001 Freightliner 3300 gallons and have yet to run into a situation of not enough water to knock down on initial attack, the time may happen when I may be wrong, but for now we will run with one, and have the 1975 as a backup. At 45 years of age the reference of o-- f--- is a bit soon, give me a couple of years before I hear that.

  24. #24
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    yes i have to agree i did get a little carried away with "the old fart", we have a cheif that has been dumped into a pool of prior cheifs "saving" money by not updating our euq , now our cheif has been very very generous, and has had a hard row to how, we have gone from low interest of the firefighters to a full crew responding for a mutual aid call, and he even feeds us once in a while , so while i mean no disrespect, by this poll and thread, also want to take this chance to thanks chuck for bringing us back from old outdated to state of the art and listening to what every single firefighter thinks , best freind and cheif anyone could ask for!!!!!!!!matt

  25. #25
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    We run two tankers, 1 2,000 gal and 1 2,600 gal. We cover about 450 sq miles and there isn't much in the way of mutual aid. Nearest is 18 miles away with 1 tanker, rest is 35 miles or more away. A requirement for us to have two, and there are days that we wish we had more.
    Rick Gustad - Chief
    Platte Volunteer Fire Department
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