1. #1
    MembersZone Subscriber
    dmleblanc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Not the end of the earth but I can see it from here...
    Posts
    2,318

    Question Changes to project

    Here's a question....we just purchased 20 new SCBA units, 20 spare bottles, a RIT air kit, and a thermal imager, with the money awarded for our 2004 grant. These purchases came to approximately $82,500, which essentially used up the federal portion of our project. We realize that we have an obligation to match 10% of the total project budget, in our case $9,150.

    Here's the question....How much leeway do we have in determining what to buy with the remaining budget? In sticking strictly with the proposal, we would be looking at purchasing a few more SCBA's, or possibly a second thermal imager (we did not specify 2 thermal imagers in our proposal). A third proposal put forth by our president is to use the money to offset the cost of a cascade system to be installed on our new (still in planning) service truck in a few months.

    So here's our dilemma....The service/rescue truck is going to cost more than we would have liked. We feel strongly that it should have a cascade system. That $9,150 would go a long way toward offsetting the cost of the cascade system. Since technically it does relate to our breathing air resources, could it be considered as relevant to the original project? What do you all think? I suppose I will have to call the USFA folks to get a ruling on this, but looking for some opinions from folks who have some experience in this area (This is our first grant). Thanks.

    Myself, I'm leaning toward the second TIC, and putting it on the new rescue truck. But I promised the president I would check on his proposal. He's the money guy after all......
    Chief Dwayne LeBlanc
    Paincourtville Volunteer Fire Department
    Paincourtville, LA

    "I have a dream. It's not a big dream, it's just a little dream. My dream and I hope you don't find this too crazy is that I would like the people of this community to feel that if, God forbid, there were a fire, calling the fire department would actually be a wise thing to do. You can't have people, if their houses are burning down, saying, 'Whatever you do, don't call the fire department!' That would be bad."
    C.D. Bales, "Roxanne"

  2. #2
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Clanton, Alabama
    Posts
    116

    Default

    dmleblanc,

    From what I've read and heard is that you can use up to 5,000.00 in excess funds as long as you stay within the same activity and if you want to go over the 5,000.00 you have to get approval from FEMA which I dont believe is to hard to do. I would defintely go for the cascade system over the 2nd TIC!! Anyway good luck with whatever you do and congrats.
    Matt Griffin
    Chief
    Eastern Chilton County Division of Fire, Rescue, and EMS, Station 91.

  3. #3
    FH Mag/.com Contributor

    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Cypress, TX
    Posts
    7,288

    Default

    Technically, you don't have your $9,150 from the matching, yet to be spent. You have spent $82,500, of which $8,250 had to have been yours, leaving $1,900 of your matching funds and $8,250 in federal funds. Remember, 10% of what you purchased must be your funds, so if you only used federal monies so far and nothing out of your own pocket, they might get a little cranky with you since the regulations haven't really been followed. Especially if their bank account for you is empty and you're talking about having $9000 left. The end does justify the means since the performance period is 1 year, so as long as the fed money doesn't account for more than 90% of the purchases at the end of that time period, you're safe.

    So if they let you spend another $5K, you're probably going to have to end up sending money back in order to meet the matching requirements. Using the money for the cascade would be a stretch from what has been approved in the past, but I agree that it would be a more beneficial purchase in the overall scheme of things than the 2nd TIC. Not that a 2nd TIC wouldn't be useful, but the prices of those will keep dropping, cascades are pretty much steady.

    Keep us posted on what they say.

  4. #4
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Linwood, NC
    Posts
    469

    Default

    In our DHS/FEMA Workshop the discussion came up on excess monies. The RFPS stated that in the previous years they have been very lenient on the excess monies and basically gave approval easily. He stated that the '05 rounds they would be much more strict and after the $5K it had to go to Fire Prevention or back to them. SO, what I would surmise from that statement, is that if you call them and explain you have right at $9K left to spend, you may can get your RFPS to say okay to the funds going toward Cascade. It's worth a try. Since you have to get approval on anything over the 5K (and it's a good idea to get approval on ANY amount...just to stay above board), it can't hurt. Good Luck!

    Oh, and keep notes of whom you speak to and when, etc. etc. Keep them in your file in the event of site visits, audits, etc. (3 years)

  5. #5
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Rural Iowa
    Posts
    3,106

    Default

    Read the guidance document over carefully. As I recall there was/is a paragraph that specifically deals with how many thermal imagers you can purchase based on population of your fire district. This is one of the few places/items where direct specific standards are laid out so I would recommend being very particular about adhering to the guidance. I doubt that a 2nd imager would meet this requirements.
    Last edited by neiowa; 03-07-2005 at 02:22 PM.

  6. #6
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Russellville Alabama
    Posts
    41

    Default

    I tried to get an amendment for 9k last month. Came back saying I could get an amedment for 5k. All other funds had to be spent on fire prevention or returned to fema.

  7. #7
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    17

    Default

    Will you share your narrative? Please email to bunkersnboots@aol.com. Thanks

  8. #8
    MembersZone Subscriber
    dmleblanc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Not the end of the earth but I can see it from here...
    Posts
    2,318

    Default

    As I recall there was/is a paragraph that specifically deals with how many thermal imagers you can purchase based on population of your fire district.
    I wasn't aware of that. Thanks for the warning, I hadn't thought of that.

    I'm not really asking for additional funds. I know that we've already accounted for the amount that the Feds are kicking in, and we still need to spend our 10%. It will still only total our original project amount.

    Technically, you don't have your $9,150 from the matching, yet to be spent. You have spent $82,500, of which $8,250 had to have been yours, leaving $1,900 of your matching funds and $8,250 in federal funds. Remember, 10% of what you purchased must be your funds, so if you only used federal monies so far and nothing out of your own pocket, they might get a little cranky with you since the regulations haven't really been followed. Especially if their bank account for you is empty and you're talking about having $9000 left. The end does justify the means since the performance period is 1 year, so as long as the fed money doesn't account for more than 90% of the purchases at the end of that time period, you're safe.
    I hope I haven't screwed up by doing it this way. Obviously the total project funds (ours and theirs) will be spent by the end of the project period.

    We received our thermal imager a couple of weeks ago and in the funds request I told them what the total cost of the imager was and that was the amount I requested, and they granted it, so I didn't think it would be a problem. I requested the remaining funds for the SCBA's but haven't heard their reply yet. I also explained in my request notes that we understood we still had $9,150 of our own money to kick in and that we would do so shortly. I have a call in to our regional rep to make sure that we are doing this right.

    Thanks everyone for your input. This is our first successful grant request and we're still trying to get the hang of this..
    Chief Dwayne LeBlanc
    Paincourtville Volunteer Fire Department
    Paincourtville, LA

    "I have a dream. It's not a big dream, it's just a little dream. My dream and I hope you don't find this too crazy is that I would like the people of this community to feel that if, God forbid, there were a fire, calling the fire department would actually be a wise thing to do. You can't have people, if their houses are burning down, saying, 'Whatever you do, don't call the fire department!' That would be bad."
    C.D. Bales, "Roxanne"

  9. #9
    MembersZone Subscriber
    dmleblanc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Not the end of the earth but I can see it from here...
    Posts
    2,318

    Default

    Oops....update....just checked the site again and they have processed and approved our second request (hadn't been posted as of a couple of hours ago....)
    Chief Dwayne LeBlanc
    Paincourtville Volunteer Fire Department
    Paincourtville, LA

    "I have a dream. It's not a big dream, it's just a little dream. My dream and I hope you don't find this too crazy is that I would like the people of this community to feel that if, God forbid, there were a fire, calling the fire department would actually be a wise thing to do. You can't have people, if their houses are burning down, saying, 'Whatever you do, don't call the fire department!' That would be bad."
    C.D. Bales, "Roxanne"

  10. #10
    MembersZone Subscriber
    dmleblanc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Not the end of the earth but I can see it from here...
    Posts
    2,318

    Default

    Good call, neiowa....I just read over it and you're right...Fire departments serving a population of less than 20,000 may only request one TIC....20,000 to 50,000, you can get two.....50,000 and above, you can get three. We're a little over 6,000 so there goes that idea. Thanks for pointing it out before I made an ***** of myself (not that it's unfamiliar territory for me... )
    Chief Dwayne LeBlanc
    Paincourtville Volunteer Fire Department
    Paincourtville, LA

    "I have a dream. It's not a big dream, it's just a little dream. My dream and I hope you don't find this too crazy is that I would like the people of this community to feel that if, God forbid, there were a fire, calling the fire department would actually be a wise thing to do. You can't have people, if their houses are burning down, saying, 'Whatever you do, don't call the fire department!' That would be bad."
    C.D. Bales, "Roxanne"

  11. #11
    District Chief
    distchief60b's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    6,413

    Default

    Dave.....we went through the same thing. We purchased our 18 SCBA and after it was over there was XXX money left in federal funds.. When I requested the drop we deducted our 10% from each purchase and only asked for that amount, so we spent our 10% on each purchase. But there were federal funds left over and even though I purchsed upgrades (MSA self rescue) for the SCBA that would make them all the same, I had to submit an amendment becuae the total was over $5000. Then I also had to submit an amendment because we purchased a RIT KIT and rescue air system. I did not find out until we did our closeout that this amendment was required. I did submit it and they said it would not be a problem.
    09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
    ------------------------------
    IACOJ Minister of Southern Comfort
    "Purple Hydrant" Recipient (3 Times)
    BMI Investigator
    ------------------------------
    The comments, opinions, and positions expressed here are mine. They are expressed respectfully, in the spirit of safety and progress. They do not reflect the opinions or positions of my employer or my department.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Log in

Click here to log in or register