Thread: thermal imager

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    Default thermal imager

    we got lucky in 2004, trying to get lucky again. i was wondering if a rural department that received a grant for a thermal imager would be so kind as to send me a copy of there narrative. i am not going to cut and paste it, just looking for ideas on how to justify with such few calls.
    JUST OUT BUSTIN MINE TO SAVE YOURS

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    Chief,
    I am originally from Virginia (Fauquier) where I volunteered for 28 years and was also career there before moving to Florida. Now work in a small city Fire Department.

    We received a grant for a TIC in the 2003 Grants. The narrative was very short and made mention of the need for one to enhance our ability to size up fires, locate potentially trapped victims, find downed firefighters and enhance firefighter safety in general. In your case I woul dalso mention the ability to use it to help locate lost hunters and hikers in the National Forests that are near you.

    Be very specific in your request in terms of components. We asked for a TIC and requested $12,000. We actually wanted to purchase accessories such as the Transmitter and receiver as well as the case. But we only said "Thermal Imager." So we received an award for the Camera, but they cut it to $10,000 because that is the cap they put on cameras. We were able to recover and ended up getting the remainder of the stuff. However, with a small volunteer department like yours, it may not be as easy. So ask for what you need in terms of money and be very specific as to what that covers.

    I would strongly recommend you look at the BULLARD T3MAX. We purchased it after looking at others and love it. Small and compact and the new one even has better features that enhance it's performance. There is a miniature receiver that is very portable. If you do not know the BULLARD Rep in your area, I can find out for you. FOR CLARIFICATION>>>>>I AM NOT A BULLARD SALESMAN. I am offering you advice based on what my department found. The BULLARD Camera has become very popular in Florida.

    If you have any further questions, please email me using the link on my profile.

    Also, here is a contact that may provide you with some useful information. Try it....what do you have to lose? Good Luck!
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    09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
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    IACOJ Minister of Southern Comfort
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    The comments, opinions, and positions expressed here are mine. They are expressed respectfully, in the spirit of safety and progress. They do not reflect the opinions or positions of my employer or my department.

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    I'd be happy to send you the narrative for our TIC grant. We won last year and they gave us $12,000. Just get me your email.

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    I have worked with quite a few depts. that received grants for TIC. The cap has been 12K in the past. One note of caution on TIC, the max you can have in your dept. (of TIC) is ONE if your population is less than 20K. SO, if you already have one, don't ask for another. (One dept. I am talking to did this, and weren't funded). It's pretty specific about the population guidelines. (See pages 16-17 of the guidelines)

    The dept. in my district that I wrote their narrative in '03 borders a large river and hiking trails. We used the justification of lost hikers (in addition to the fire-related uses). Also, I know first hand they have used it to help locate an elderly patient that wandered away from the nursing home. Mention the 'interoperability' of this purchase by making it available to EVERY department in your district as well as the local PD and Rescue Squads on search and rescue calls.

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    Actually it doesn't address the number of TICs you own, it's how many you can apply for in the application. Your department wasn't funded for other reasons, I've got a bunch I know of that added to their TIC count last year, even with mentioning that they already owned one. Some is in the department's numbers, the rest is just like mom always said: it's how you ask for it.

    Good points on the interoperability. Went through a bunch of TIC batteries looking for lost kids last year. 3 words on that note: DEEP WOODS OFF.

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    Hey, BC...
    I know it doesn't address the number you have, but I have to believe, if they're reducing the number you can ask for in a grant, and you were funded LAST YEAR ('03) with the same grant - AFG - and got a TIC, not the smartest thing to ask for another the VERY next year...when you only have 3900 people in your district and run less than 300 calls a year? (With only 30 structure) - I mean, c'mon, if you're the panel reviewer...just not a good deal. Especially when you had to put that you received an '03 grant for TIC and SCBAs since it was within the year...

    I think it's better served to appear not so 'greedy' - just my opinion. As if I was the reviewer I wouldn't give it to ya with those stats listed above, would you?

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    True, but the person asking the question isn't the one that won the TIC the year before in this case. Although I know of at least a couple of departments that made it with 2 TICs in subsequent years. When you're the largest department in the county and are on auto-aid on nearly every call in the county for at least a RIT assignment if not more, and make nearly 1000 runs a year, you can get TICs back to back. A specific case yes, but again, it's in the numbers and how it is justified. My thought is that TICs are needed for initial attack, search, and RIT teams, so that's 3 needed on the fireground. Obviously there's more that can be used in justification, and yes it's a case by case basis. 300 calls, I don't see back to back happening. Others, slim but not impossible.

    I don't see the computer tossing an app since it doesn't appear to read what has been previously awarded. Last year it was only a Yes or No to receiving a grant for the previous year, and the application didn't ask for details, so the computer wouldn't know if you got a TIC before or not. And according to the tutorial online, it doesn't ask at all this year.

    I definitely don't condone greed, but when you're talking to someone about the safety of the people around them, the definition of greed changes slightly, especially when RIT enters the arena. And I still highly encourage folks that get new stuff to donate it to Helping Our Own. If you think your equipment is bad, take a mosey around the country, someone else has it worse. If the gear/equipment is repairable, send it on over to them, there are still people in street clothes fighting fires because they can't even afford to match a grant.

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    I totally agree with you. I have depts. I work with that get less than $10K a year and all from fundraisers. So, it's hard sometimes to see a department that wouldn't be best served by having excess equipment that may not be used very frequently. I know from the Workshop (DHS) this year, they are strongly encouraging depts. to do a risk/needs assesment and then apply for those items that meet those needs.

    I understand that there are depts. with under 20K in population that need more than 1 TIC. However, a smaller dept. that doesn't run but about 10% of their calls on structure fires, perhaps not. There are several other TIC within the county on depts. that respond mutual/auto aid to this dept. So, I felt one was sufficient, and after reading the narrative, didn't feel they had justified it at all their previous application (which I didn't work on). And THEY stated in the app. ('04) that they had previously received a TIC from the '03 grant. So, I felt they shot themselves in the foot, on the panel review and could have possibly gotten a higher score, if they had removed the TIC and/or JUSTIFIED it better. Basically, they didn't justify it at all and since the call volume is low and there is not much more to add.

    It was also stated in the Workshop I attended in SC that just because a dept. wants an item (popular items, such as TIC) doesn't mean your call volume warrants you being given one. I think alot of times, the depts. around here think 'if that fd got one, then we should get one too!' and it becomes less about true NEED and more about keeping up with the other depts. One thing I say to departments 'Your WANTS are not DHS' NEEDS'...and if you can't justify the item - forget it!

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    'Your WANTS are not DHS' NEEDS'
    Bold, highlight, underline, get a tattoo of that statement, however you need to remember that folks, remember it.

    I went through many, many discussions in forums here a couple of years ago over that exact subject. USFA and FEMA developed the program priorities based on the Needs Assessment white paper that they published, based on surveys send to and received from about 12,000 fire departments. So while your specific wants may not align with DHS Priorities, understand that you may be the exception to the researched rule for departments that look similar on paper. Just like the Top 5 and Top 10 Reasons for not being awarded on the DHS web site says, it's a competitive program. Not everyone wins, and some people never will. I don't think my own department has much of a chance of winning another award based on budget alone, but apply we will anyway.

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    Maybe I should get that tattoo I've secretly fantasized of....LOL. I haven't trademarked the statement, but maybe I should! Wanna go in halves on the TM costs, BC?

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    I want a Taz tattoo but the Mrs keeps vetoing that. She thinks one of us should remain un-inked as an example to the kids we don't have yet. I think we both should have them so they know not to mess with either of us.

    I've given the feds enough copyright and trademark fees to last me for a bit. And considering the income tax check I'll probably have to cut they're getting enough of my money. Good thing I don't pay state income tax to the People's Republic of Texas.

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