View Poll Results: When filling scba at the station, do you:

Voters
78. You may not vote on this poll
  • Use a frag tube close by

    9 11.54%
  • Remote mounted frag tube

    0 0%
  • Nothing at all

    4 5.13%
  • Fill station with a bottle compartment with a sealable door

    65 83.33%
  1. #1
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Covington, La
    Posts
    28

    Post scba fill station

    I post this poll because I work for two departments and we use frag tubes at both. I honestly don't feel safe filing with only a frag tube. With 4500psi behind it, I seriously doubt that a frag tube will do much good.
    Last edited by sexauer; 03-05-2005 at 08:38 PM.

  2. #2
    MembersZone Subscriber
    jfTL41's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    573

    Default

    None of the above, every day the truck comes and we give em the empties and they give us the full ones, MAGIC!

  3. #3
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    DuBois, IL - just south of I-64 in the middle of the state
    Posts
    2,041

    Default

    we've filled ours in the open air until this year when we purchased 2 fill stations, a mobile one and a stationary one, with FireAct funds. We'll not fill another one out of full containment station.
    Jack Boczek, Chief
    Ashley Community Fire Protection District

    FLATLANDERS FOREVER!

  4. #4
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Rural Iowa
    Posts
    3,106

    Default

    We are purchasing a Frag-2 with fire grant $. Have been filling from our military surplus cascade system with no containment because we have not $ for such essential safety equipment. Cost is around $1700 for 2 chambers. Pretty expensive. These have a lid with latch.

    Why would you think a frag tube is not going to contain an exploding bottle as just well at an overpriced box with a hinged dumpster door? The manufacturer is designing the frag tube to be ineffectual and to fail (so you can sue him)? The thickness/quality of the steel is what is going to contain the shrapnel. The extra $5000 for gauges/valves/fancy hinges don't and strength. Easy example of KISS (keep it simple )

  5. #5
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Covington, La
    Posts
    28

    Default

    Originally posted by neiowa

    Why would you think a frag tube is not going to contain an exploding bottle as just well at an overpriced box with a hinged dumpster door? The manufacturer is designing the frag tube to be ineffectual and to fail (so you can sue him)? The thickness/quality of the steel is what is going to contain the shrapnel. The extra $5000 for gauges/valves/fancy hinges don't and strength. Easy example of KISS (keep it simple )
    I dont think it will contain it as well because of the open top. I think that if the cylinder comes apart, depending on where the cylinder initialy ruptures (It could come out of the frag tube) it will spray shrapnel all over the place. Has anyone ever seen what one of those tanks do to the side of a truck when they come apart? I could be wrong, and it could contain it quite well, but with the pressures involved.....I hope that I never find out.

  6. #6
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Posts
    32

    Default

    Here's a picture of one which wasn't contained, as well as the bottle that ruptured. The firefighter filling the bottle wasn't killed, but was blown across the room and suffered multiple fractures. While the bones have healed, he did suffer permanent hearing loss.
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    I.A.C.O.J. - Getting crustier every day

  7. #7
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Posts
    32

    Default

    Sorry about that...
    Here's the bottle
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    I.A.C.O.J. - Getting crustier every day

  8. #8
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Covington, La
    Posts
    28

    Default

    Originally posted by georlow
    Here's a picture of one which wasn't contained, as well as the bottle that ruptured. The firefighter filling the bottle wasn't killed, but was blown across the room and suffered multiple fractures. While the bones have healed, he did suffer permanent hearing loss.
    The question is, would a composite bottle fail the same way as the one in the picture? Or would it fragment into a million pieces? It looks like the guy filling the bottle in the pics is VERY lucky....I would have most certainly emptied my bowels.

  9. #9
    MembersZone Subscriber
    sdff1520's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    SD
    Posts
    322

    Default

    We have been filling them completely unsecured, well almost, the bottles are held on the shelf with a fire extinguisher bracket during filling. This un-safe practice will soon end as we have ordered a new compressor, fully enclosed fill station and cascade. I'm just glad we've been lucky and nothing bad has happened. One never thinks that a cylinder is going to rupture if it's filled properly - at least thats what we thought until we had three bottles fail the last hydro test due to hairline cracks.
    Rick Gustad - Chief
    Platte Volunteer Fire Department
    www.plattevfd.com

  10. #10
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Rural Iowa
    Posts
    3,106

    Default

    Originally posted by sexauer


    I dont think it will contain it as well because of the open top. I think that if the cylinder comes apart, depending on where the cylinder initialy ruptures (It could come out of the frag tube) it will spray shrapnel all over the place. Has anyone ever seen what one of those tanks do to the side of a truck when they come apart? I could be wrong, and it could contain it quite well, but with the pressures involved.....I hope that I never find out.
    Actually that open top tube style would only spray shrapnel straight out of the tube. IE a shotgun. Now if you have the tube standing on the end or on it's side may be an issue. If you foolishily have your nugget over the top of the tube it may be a problem. Tube should, of course, be taller than your SCBA tanks.

    The Frag-2 (or Frag-1) from Air Systems International have a top with latch. Will fully contain a tank failure. Small enough to transport to the field. Affordable so can actually buy one.
    http://www.airsystems.cc/product_pag...tions_temp.htm

  11. #11
    District Chief
    distchief60b's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    6,413

    Default

    On our vehicle with a cascade system, we have a remote frag tank that hands off the compartment opening and is behind the compartment door which is between the fill station and filling firefighter.... Not sure just exactly how safe it really is.
    09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
    ------------------------------
    IACOJ Minister of Southern Comfort
    "Purple Hydrant" Recipient (3 Times)
    BMI Investigator
    ------------------------------
    The comments, opinions, and positions expressed here are mine. They are expressed respectfully, in the spirit of safety and progress. They do not reflect the opinions or positions of my employer or my department.

  12. #12
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    587

    Default

    Originally posted by sexauer


    The question is, would a composite bottle fail the same way as the one in the picture? Or would it fragment into a million pieces?
    All composite bottles still have an aluminium tank under the composite wrap. With the newer carbon wrapped bottles the aluminium tanks have even a thinner walled tank. I guess the answer to your question is it will do both.

    I was in close proximity to a open topped frag tank when one of the bottles sustained a burst disc failure. It completly emptied and dried the tank of water( I know, showing my age). I will have to say that this is not the only thing that was emptied in a rapid manner!!

  13. #13
    Forum Member
    Bones42's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Pt. Beach, NJ
    Posts
    10,682

    Default

    Just remember, along with the "parts" of the bottle that will be going somewhere, so will the compressed air in that cylinder. A true containment system will not only protect the user from the parts, but also from getting the air blast.

    The frag tubes are better than nothing, but I'd opt for the better containment system, if possible.


    After all, it's only someone's life and/or well being that we are talking about here.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  14. #14
    Dispatch Dweller
    Jay911's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 1999
    Location
    On the way to the station. Really. It's 12 kilometers away and there's traffic.
    Posts
    339

    Default

    Originally posted by sexauer


    The question is, would a composite bottle fail the same way as the one in the picture? Or would it fragment into a million pieces? It looks like the guy filling the bottle in the pics is VERY lucky....I would have most certainly emptied my bowels.
    I can't find it any more, but I used to have a photo of a composite wrap bottle that was 'compromised' while mounted in the jumpseat of a fire truck. (I thought it was in the photos with the old "Detroit Fire Department: Out of Service" article here on FH, but that seems to have been removed from the site.) The tank basically came apart in the same way as the photo above, with the addition of 'unwrapping' into thousands of strands, plus doing some pretty heavy damage to the truck.

    If I find the photo I'll try to remember to bring it here..

    [EDIT: It appears I'm remembering a 'cylinder failure' from 1996 from the Humboldt, CA fire dept, but I can't locate an image.]
    Last edited by Jay911; 04-04-2005 at 03:22 AM.
    --jay.

  15. #15
    MembersZone Subscriber
    BVFD1983's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    IL
    Posts
    434

    Default

    Does anyone know where to buy a single bottle apparatus mounted frag tube? We are having a heck of a time with space issues and are wanting a 1 bottle at a time system.
    FTM - PTB

  16. #16
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Rural Iowa
    Posts
    3,106

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BVFD1983
    Does anyone know where to buy a single bottle apparatus mounted frag tube? We are having a heck of a time with space issues and are wanting a 1 bottle at a time system.
    See Frag-1 from Air Systems International have a top with latch. Will fully contain a tank failure. Small enough to transport to the field. Affordable so can actually buy one.

    http://www.airsystems.cc/product_pag...l_stations.htm

  17. #17
    MembersZone Subscriber
    BVFD1983's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    IL
    Posts
    434

    Default

    Not what we are looking for. I found what we are looking for though, and they are expensive...
    FTM - PTB

  18. #18
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Rural Iowa
    Posts
    3,106

    Default

    Yeah those rigs with the drawer/door that opens, guages, valves etc are obscenely expensive. Likely 1/2 of the price is to pay for the mfg liability insurance.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Log in

Click here to log in or register