Why register? ...To Enhance Your Experience
+ Reply to Thread
Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 41 to 60 of 66
  1. #41
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    May 1999
    Location
    Here, There, Everywhere
    Posts
    4,191

    Question

    I'll pose this question to those who feel EVERY FD appartatus should have a Pump/hose etc....

    Why don't all of your Engines have a 110 ft. Aerial or Platform? Why don't they all carry Trench Equipment and Ice Rescue Suits and High Angle Equipment and Level A Suits and an A, B, C kit for Haz-Mat????

    What if you showed up to that one highrise in your city and someone needed rescuing from the 8th floor? Or some workers at the Water plant were overcome with Clorine fumes?

    Because they CAN'T do everything!

    The Army doesn't purchase vehicles that do EVERYTHING. They have Tanks, Howitzers, Personell carriers, Humvees...etc. Not every rig can do everything. It doesn't make eccomic sense to do so.

    The Airforce doesn't have planes that carry supplies like vehilcles, and food and also refules other planes, acts as a fighter plane and a long range bomber all at the same time? No they all divide those tasks appropriately among all the different types of aircraft.

    I feel places that do this are only demonstrating their lack of knowledge on sound tactics and lack of real analysis on the subject...and before you accuse me of being some NY guy who doesn't know what he is talking about...I was a Fireman for the better part of a Decade in Rural and Suburban areas(far removed from NY) where this quint thing took off and I spent most of my time on one of those all-in-one wonder wagons...Despite the mens best efforts, It was a joke.

    You take a Ladder Co. with 5 men and 1 officer and have them do Engine work...off an apparatus not actually suited for line deployment...who is going to do the Truck work, how are they going to get any Engine work done with out the accompaning Truck duties?

    Are there places where this Quint thing is good...sure. Where an isolated town only has maybe 3 or 4 appartaus in service and the mutal aid is 15-30 min away. That is a good reason to have it. Just like where Captstanm1 is and in his situation.

    Dave I'm sorry but urban/suburban needs are not that of rural Florida. Don't use the FDNY example because it doesn't apply. Come to NY and it would only take 5 seconds to figure out why your idea won't work. As for Ladder Co.10, that is an extreem example and no it isn't practical or necessary to have pumps on the ladders there or even in residentail sections of Queens and Brooklyn and SI.

    I'll say this loud and clear once again... "YOU AREN'T TYING UP ENGINES BY HAVING THEM PUMP WATER TO LADDER TRUCKS FOR ELEVATED STREAMS!!! THAT IS WHY YOU BOUGHT THE ENGINE AND BROUGHT IT TO THE FIRE!

    I've heard of a career department that hooked up a 5 inch line from the hydrant into the ladder (and the hose came off an engine company), and you didn't get anywhere near the pressure you needed to flow water from the ladder pipe.
    I don't know the whole situation and apparenly neither do you since you "heard" it. But the Engine Co. in question should be ashamed of themselves if they couldn't supply enough water to the ladder. As long as it wasn't a mechanical failure...there should be no reason why the Engine can't supply a Tower Ladder with the appropriate pressures for an adequate stream. Especailly with 5 inch hose which has negligible Friction loss. Also what kind of tip did they have...if it was one of those silly fog tips than that is 50 lbs. of your answer right there.

    And as for you not buying it that a company can't do both...Sure they can...but they can't do it well? What do you have to compare it too? Have you ever worked in a system where there are Engine men and Truckies? How does anyone compare one system to another if they haven't worked in both? I have worked in Both type systems and there is no comparison. Much smoother operation, less confusion and much safer overall. That is where my opinions are based and come from.

    Just the same as my prior argument... The military doesn't train an Infantry man to drive and operate a Tank, and a Missle Battery, and a personell carrier..etc. Each has its own people that are trained in each specific operation. The only ones who can do both are special forces types which are often trained how to operate tanks as well as infantry tactics. I think the greater fire services move from Military attidudes to those of Private industry have brought about much of this sillyness and lack of focus.

    Although it may seem simple to most who haven't experinced it there is alot that one picks up when they focus on one set of skills mostly. I know some Truckies who have never in their career put out a fire with a handline...Where as I know most Engine men haven't VESed from a bucket in to the Deadmans room of a Brownstone.

    We do have some who are well versed in both...they are Squad companies and they Train constantly. Even though those of us who aren't in SOC bust thier balls, they are a highly motivated group and in order too keep their skills up it takes alot of effort. They train at the level that is required to keep Engine and Truck skills (along with some Haz-Mat and Rescue type skills as well) I seriously doubt any of your depts even comes close. There aren't that many out there who drill as much as what is really required.

    While I have worked tours in the Truck I still am not as proficent as they are in getting to the roof, cutting with the saw, forcing the doors, and searching appartments...etc. Because they do it more often than I do. When Engine guys are detalied to the Truck they are often given the positions that keep them under the supervision of the officer or where they will be teamed up with other truckies. Just the same a Truckie NEVER gets the knob or rarely the Control in My Engine under most circumstances...they are given the Back-up or if we have one the Doorman positions in most cases.

    Just the same myself along with the other Engine guys can strech faster, more accurately and advance the line more proficently than a group of Truckies.

    And this isn't just a NY Thing...It is common in other depts that specailize their companies instead of "believing" they can do all... Chicago, LACity, Houston, Indianapolis, Kansas City, Cincinnati... All their Truckies are good at it. Much better than one of those "cross-trained" dept I was once familiar with.

    Too many it seems are focused on what a rig has or doesn't have on it...when they should be focused on what the staffing is and what those members are assigned to do. I see FFs from all over the country who visit my Firehouse and from their questions about us, ours about theirs and their responses I get a good feel about what is going on out there in the rest of America. They often ask about what size the pump is on the Engine (and are surprised about the Trucks lack of one). They get confused about postions and task assignments. Many FFs seem to be as misguided as John Q in that they focus on what the apparatus has and not how many men are on it and what do they do!

    Placing a pump on a ladder when there are plenty of Engines is nothing short of ignorant and wasteful. And if your ladders are consistantly showing up before Engines then you either don't have enough Engines or are sending them on too much BS EMS to keep their availbility up at an appropriate level.

    I can garuantee that your dept isn't staffed or set up for that 1 time out of 1000 fire where you will be overwhelmed...you plan for most of your fires. If the Ladder truck shows up well before the Engine companies 1 out of 1000 times then that is acceptable and perhaps one should look at the number of engine runs, should we relocate companies faster, or do we more Engines if it becomes a common problem. That is sound planning and firefighting strategy...not placing a pump on a ladder because thats what "John Q" thinks he needs. If I did what John Q though we wouldn't break his windows. force his doors cut holes in his roof or use lots of water to make sure the fire is out. John Q pays his $$$ for fire protection not to tell you how to provide it. You are proffesional firefighters...you are hired to tell him what he needs.

    In my past depts. There were ALWAYS Engines sitting around not using their pumps and hose and Quints with every line off pumping near capacity...If I held the purse strings in those cities I would be asking serious questions of the Chief why we are buying pumps on ladder trucks when we have Engines doing nothing at fires other than acting as manpower carriers!

    Although it depends on the situation most Urban/Suburban Depts don't need pumps on ladders and most rural/isolated small towns might need them. Don't confuse the two situations.

    FTM-PTB
    Last edited by FFFRED; 03-07-2005 at 05:04 PM.


  2. #42
    Forum Member HeavyRescueTech's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    2,460

    Default

    Originally posted by FFFRED
    I don't know the whole situation and apparenly neither do you since you "heard" it. But the Engine Co. in question should be ashamed of themselves if they couldn't supply enough water to the ladder. As long as it wasn't a mechanical failure...there should be no reason why the Engine can't supply a Tower Ladder with the appropriate pressures for an adequate stream. Especailly with 5 inch hose which has negligible Friction loss. Also what kind of tip did they have...if it was one of those silly fog tips than that is 50 lbs. of your answer right there.
    your right, I don't know the whole situation, as I wasn't there. I was told this by the training officer of said career department. and it was more like of an "oops" by the engine company than a mechanical problem. from what he said, the chief was fuming, and instructed the training officer to have ladder pipe operations as the next days training topic with the entire crew. and from what my chief told me, he has had it happen with our tower too, with a mutual aid company hooking directly from the hydrant to the truck (an oops, not a mechanical failure).

    and you'll note, I never said that a quint replaces an engine company, or that a truck with a pump should be doing anything with water except for flowing from the bucket. a truck company who use a truck with a pump should still be doing truck work, while an engine company should be doing engine work. and rescue should be doing whatever the IC needs to get done.

    if you use the analogy that an engine shouldn't do any truck work, or have an truck equipment, then why should you have any ladders on it? after all, wouldn't any need for them be the responsibility of the truck company?

    off topic, what's the deadman's room in a brownstone?
    If my basic HazMat training has taught me nothing else, it's that if you see a glowing green monkey running away from something, follow that monkey!

    FF/EMT/DBP

  3. #43
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    May 1999
    Location
    Here, There, Everywhere
    Posts
    4,191

    Post

    DrParasite,

    I don't know that I infered that you said a truck with a pump should be doing anything else...I might have been refering to another poster...sorry for the confusion.

    As for the Engine feeding the Hydrant directly to the Truck...I am speachless and I can't even imagine why anyone would even think of doing that. That doesn't reflect well on that Engine, its officers or the Chiefs of its Battalion. That is such a simple and basic operation that I wonder what other things that company/dept. is overlooking.

    One thing with the pump on the Truck. That requires another operator to operate the turntable in addition to the pump pannel in the early going as an another MPO will be operating the pump of the Engine or Quint Truck whatever you have at the hydrant.

    I don't know how many depts can really afford to have 3 operators thus taking one away from other critical operations... search, vent etc.

    Off topic:
    As for the off topic Deadmans room. In a Brownstone which is the Urban equivilant to a Private Dwelling. The Deadmans room is the room directly over the Parlor Stairs on upper floors and if it is being used as a Private Dwelling and not a converted MD the room only opens up to the main hall and open and unenclosed stairway. This leads to many persons who have been trapped in this room and also many who have died thus the name Deadman's room. This is a critical area for the OVM to search.

    FTM-PTB

  4. #44
    Forum Member Dave1983's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Gator Country
    Posts
    4,157

    Default

    Dave I'm sorry but urban/suburban needs are not that of rural Florida.
    For what its worth, I dont consider a county of 210 sq miles, 980,000 full time residents and over 4 million visitors a year "rural". Oh, we also have 63 PAID fire sations. Again, not your typical rural

    Ok...Im going to try and make my point ONE LAST TIME. Please try and avoid the temptation to wonder off into quints are manpower killers or trucks should only do truck work or all engines should have aerial platforms, as you would be missing my point.

    All trucks DO NOT have to be quints. There IS a place for "straight" truck companys.

    HOWEVER, I belive ALL thrucks should have SOME ability to attack a fire.

    IMHO, to have a piece of apparatus of that size and cost, with 4 or 5 FF's on it, that is unable to put some water/foam on a dumpster if they happen across one, makes no sense me.

    And BTW, the military doesnt cross train everyone on every piece of equipment. But in a combate situation Im pretty sure evryone has at least one firearm available "just in case". In the fire service, a hose and some type of extinguishing agent is our "firearm". And that, Brothers, is my point.

    That is all
    Last edited by Dave1983; 03-07-2005 at 05:42 PM.
    Fire Marshal/Safety Officer

    IAAI-NFPA-IAFC/VCOS-Retired IAFF

    "No his mind is not for rent, to any god or government"
    RUSH-Tom Sawyer

    Success is when skill meets opportunity
    Failure is when fantasy meets reality

  5. #45
    Forum Member Res343cue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Your 1st due.
    Posts
    1,651

    Default

    The department I recently left in Vermont had 17,000 residents and was covered by 2 volunteer departments. We bought an ex-FDNY Aerialscope in '91 and ran with it until '02. When it was replaced in '02, we went with a quint with the idea of being able to retire the 3rd pumper in the station that ran with it as it's supply piece. We designated it as a truck ... for TRUCK work only. The tank was there primarily to protect the guys in the bucket if the water supply crapped out while they got themselves out of harm's way. Sure it can handle a small fire ... but that's not what it was purchased for and always runs behind at least 1 pump and most of the time 2.
    In other communties it may work out better as the attack truck suported by pumps ..it's all local.
    That new quint is pretty sharp looking.
    Quote Originally Posted by ThNozzleMan
    Why? Because we are firemen. We are decent human beings. We would be compelled by the overwhelming impulse to save an innocent child from a tragic, painful death because in the end, we are MEN.

    I A C O J
    FTM-PTB


    Honorary Disclaimer: While I am a manufacturer representative, I am not here to sell my product. Any advice or knowledge shared is for informational purposes only. I do not use Firehouse.Com for promotional purposes.

  6. #46
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Bossier Parrish, Louisiana
    Posts
    10,527

    Default

    Yes it is 343 .. they got it just a few months before I left. Was a big change from the old Mack, though the Mack sure had a real rugged look and was a damn tough old bird.
    They just took delivery of a new Stuphen engine a couple of months ago too which is a beautiful rig.... the damn thing has more cabinet space than Martha Stewart's shoe closet. Was funny as heck when I walked in to the bays .. they had the old '62 International parked between the '02 Tower and the '05 engine ... looked sorta weird but made me feel good to see the old rig still running .. sorta like me.

  7. #47
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    May 1999
    Location
    Here, There, Everywhere
    Posts
    4,191

    Default

    Dave,

    The trucks do have the water and foam in Pressurized water extinguishers, AFFF extinguishers and CO2 and Purple K.

    Similar to my military analogy a tank while it is made with large caliber weapons to engage heavy armor and such also has a smaller machine guns to deal with infantry if the need arrises. Much like the Truck carries the Can for its needs and operations at fires.

    However in most cases a Dumpster fire can wait for an Engine. If thats your reasoning I must strongly disagree for the need for pumps and hose. After all a Dumpster is garbage.

    And I don't think my question of you or anyone else that should all your Engines need 110ft aerials or Level A suits is any different than what you present as why all Ladders need a pump and hose. My view is that it illustrates how absurd the need for a pump on every apparatus is.

    The question asked was "Should Ladder/Aerial Apparatus Be Equipped With A Pump And Water Tank?" A pump and Water tank along with any associated hose is in direct conflict with the Ladder Co's assignment and tools used on the fireground. It doesn't compliment any of its operations as it would only be a duplication of the Mission of the Engine Co.

    Just the same the 110 ft aerial on an Engine duplicates the services of Ladder companies and the Level A suits with contaiment kits duplicates the need for a haz-mat/rescue/SOC or whatever you call it.

    Considering you yourself mentioned in another topic that you are against duplication of services and government waste...I would think you & I would be in aggrement on this subject. Because that is what we are really talking about...duplication of the Duties and responsiblies of the Engine Company.

    The same could be said for any piece of equipment or tool. It is important to build a tiered system and based on need and response times provide the appropriate companies to deal with the fires in the shortest amount of time with the appropriate staffing, equipment and apparatus. There is finite cash available...spend it effectively.

    Everyone complains about how little money they have for their respective FDs is...however they still go and buy tools and features on their apparatus that they don't really need. When you send 3-5 companies to a typical fire and your city is surrounded by Engines or other cities with Engines with pumps and rare or non-existant is the fire where every pump is being used to capacity there is little need to add pumps to apparatus that will not be used because there are already enough there. It comes down to simple fiscal management...if I buy something for you and you don't use it or need it why should I replace it or buy you more of them?

    FTM-PTB

    PS- DrParasite...the Portable ladder on my Engine I can say without a doubt has never been used. It is a waste of space mandated by I think the insurance underwriters. It is the ultimate "just there in case tool we have". There are probably more roof rope rescues than Engine portable ladders being put into use! Is it good that it is there...I guess so... but it is only 24 ft won't reach much and if I ever see it used I'll really be surprised!
    Last edited by FFFRED; 03-07-2005 at 06:32 PM.

  8. #48
    Forum Member Res343cue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Your 1st due.
    Posts
    1,651

    Default

    Originally posted by LaFireEducator
    Yes it is 343 .. they got it just a few months before I left. Was a big change from the old Mack, though the Mack sure had a real rugged look and was a damn tough old bird.
    They just took delivery of a new Stuphen engine a couple of months ago too which is a beautiful rig.... the damn thing has more cabinet space than Martha Stewart's shoe closet. Was funny as heck when I walked in to the bays .. they had the old '62 International parked between the '02 Tower and the '05 engine ... looked sorta weird but made me feel good to see the old rig still running .. sorta like me.
    Yeah, for some reason Chittenden County had lots of ex-FDNY / Mack rigs coming through it. Specifically the Aerialscopes. Hopefully when I'm in NYC I can visit some of the companies that SBFD got some of it's rigs from.

    Get yourself of the new Sutphen calender. I believe their rig is in it.
    Quote Originally Posted by ThNozzleMan
    Why? Because we are firemen. We are decent human beings. We would be compelled by the overwhelming impulse to save an innocent child from a tragic, painful death because in the end, we are MEN.

    I A C O J
    FTM-PTB


    Honorary Disclaimer: While I am a manufacturer representative, I am not here to sell my product. Any advice or knowledge shared is for informational purposes only. I do not use Firehouse.Com for promotional purposes.

  9. #49
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    278

    Default

    In Bucks Co, PA One of Engine 52-1's first workers they made a save using there ground ladder....I think it was useful then.
    Bucks County, PA.

  10. #50
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    278

    Default

    Photos By Sam Simon (c)2004
    Bristol Boro, Bucks County. Nov. 26 2004. 1475 Radcliffe St.
    D/C-53 arrived on scene of a 2 1/2 story bar with apartments above, with heavy smoke showing and a person trapped on the second floor. Engine 52-1 arrived and placed a ground ladder to the second floor to rescue one person. Command had heavy fire second floor, requested the second alarm. All other searches were negative.
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Bucks County, PA.

  11. #51
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    May 1999
    Location
    Here, There, Everywhere
    Posts
    4,191

    Default

    stcommodore,

    I think the "rescue at window...fire to be fought" senario was already debated at length in a previous thread I started sometime last year in a WWYD thread regarding stretching a line or using a portable ladder. As I recall there were wide ranging opinions.

    FTM-PTB

  12. #52
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    278

    Default

    I'm just saying there is a reason engine's carry some ground ladders.
    Bucks County, PA.

  13. #53
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    134

    Default

    haha commodore you love posting those rigs

    On a serious note, pumps on trucks, tanks on trucks, it comes down to the same thing over and over. Fred, you may not be far off in your question about throwing the 110' ladder on pumpers. Think of it this way: What's more useful when those people are hanging out the windows, a charged line or a small stick? I have seen places where engine companies= engine with a 50-75 foot stick. Truck, absolutely not, but good for those life or death pulls? Absolutely! Quints have their place, yes yes yes, but before you worry about passing the car fire (how often are their occupants still in the vehicle), worry about that family hangin out the window that can't be reached by ground ladders.

  14. #54
    District Chief distchief60b's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    6,413

    Default

    In my city we do not have the staffing...and will not get it soon.....to staff an engine and truck. Using the quint program we would have both worlds together. Even when we staff the second station we will only be able to do one unit per station. So if you go out for something....taking the Qunit will make you able to handle anything you get. You are right,....may not be an occupant trapped in car, but sure looks bad in papers when a big huge red fire truck paid for by the citizens is pictured in the paper sitting there while car burns in background because there is no water or hose on the big red truck and they are waiting for the closest engine. Yes, Fire extinguishers are carried, but they may not always be enough to extinguish that fire......
    09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
    ------------------------------
    IACOJ Minister of Southern Comfort
    "Purple Hydrant" Recipient (3 Times)
    BMI Investigator
    ------------------------------
    The comments, opinions, and positions expressed here are mine. They are expressed respectfully, in the spirit of safety and progress. They do not reflect the opinions or positions of my employer or my department.

  15. #55
    Forum Member DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Somewhere between genius and insanity!
    Posts
    13,575

    Default my humble opinion

    Having a fire truck rigged with a large amount of water, supply and attack lines and an aerial with the full complement of ground ladders and all the equipment necessary to pull off any and all kinds of rescue and /or fire situations is akin to having Lockheed Martin redesign the C5A Galaxy to fly supersonic, be capable of dogfighting with other fighter aircrtaft and still carry a few ARFF rigs, a tank or two plus the troops.

    Can it be done (the truck, that is! )? Yes.

    Is it practical for most FD's? No.


    As far as the car burning in the photo goes... unless there is an exposure problem or people trapped, any car fire will be a total loss. Remember, kiddies, it's risk vs. benefit. Why put ourselves at risk to save a two ton hulk of burnt metal, melted plastic and broken glass?
    Last edited by CaptainGonzo; 03-08-2005 at 02:03 PM.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  16. #56
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Bossier Parrish, Louisiana
    Posts
    10,527

    Default

    Yes 343, at one point there were 5 ex-FDNY Aerialscopes operating in Chittenden County plus South Burlington had a Mack CF pump that I beleive was ex-FDNY as well.

    This was probably 7-8 years ago before SBFB and Winooski replaced thier Mack Towers ... South Burlington, Winooski, Colchester Center (bought from Burlington), Williston and Milton were all running ex-FDNY scopes. Somewhere there is a picture of all of them together except for Milton's ....

    When I left the area in the fall of '02, only Milton and Williston still had therm running, and I beleive Williston was planning to replace thier's in the near future.

  17. #57
    Forum Member DennisTheMenace's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Washington, DC/Northern Virginia
    Posts
    3,717

    Default Re: my humble opinion

    Originally posted by CaptainGonzo
    Having a fire truck rigged with a large amount of water, supply and attack lines and an aerial with the full complement of ground ladders and all the equipment necessary to pull off any and all kinds of rescue and /or fire situations is akin to having Lockheed Martin redesign the C5A Galaxy to fly supersonic, be capable of dogfighting with other fighter aircrtaft and still carry a few ARFF rigs, a tank or two plus the troops.

    Can it be done (the truck, that is! )? Yes.

    Is it practical for most FD's? No.


    As far as the car burning in the photo goes... unless there is an exposure problem or people trapped, any car fire will be a total loss. Remember, kiddies, it's risk vs. benefit. Why put ourselves at risk to save a two ton hulk of burnt metal, melted plastic and broken glass?
    Giving a Truck a moderate amount of water, a useable amount of supply line and a quick attack amount of attack lines, is just like the military mounting .50 cals on the top of Supply Trucks, or mounting M2 .50 cals and gatling guns in the doors of CH-53's and CH-47 transport helicopters
    Be for Peace, but don't be for the Enemy!
    -Big Russ

    Learn from the mistakes of others; you won't live long enough to make them all yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    LOL....dont you people have anything else to do besides b*tch about our b*tching?

  18. #58
    Forum Member DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Somewhere between genius and insanity!
    Posts
    13,575

    Default Re: Re: my humble opinion

    Originally posted by DennisTheMenace
    Giving a Truck a moderate amount of water, a useable amount of supply line and a quick attack amount of attack lines, is just like the military mounting .50 cals on the top of Supply Trucks, or mounting M2 .50 cals and gatling guns in the doors of CH-53's and CH-47 transport helicopters
    Apples and Oranges, Bro... both grow on trees and are quite tasty, but

    A .50 cal can be mounted onto humvees and helos with a few mil spec bolts and the appropriate hardware. On the other hand, to outfit an aerial with a pump, a moderate amount of water useable attack and supply lines requires more hardware and more dinero for something that may get rarely used. To retrofit, you're taling a major redeign of an existing rig and a lot of money!
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  19. #59
    Forum Member DennisTheMenace's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Washington, DC/Northern Virginia
    Posts
    3,717

    Default Re: Re: Re: my humble opinion

    Originally posted by CaptainGonzo


    Apples and Oranges, Bro... both grow on trees and are quite tasty, but

    A .50 cal can be mounted onto humvees and helos with a few mil spec bolts and the appropriate hardware. On the other hand, to outfit an aerial with a pump, a moderate amount of water useable attack and supply lines requires more hardware and more dinero for something that may get rarely used. To retrofit, you're taling a major redeign of an existing rig and a lot of money!
    The Humvee/5 ton/ and helo were all designed from the begining to handle the weapon, just as a quint ot a truck with a pump is desinged that way when they are built.
    Be for Peace, but don't be for the Enemy!
    -Big Russ

    Learn from the mistakes of others; you won't live long enough to make them all yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    LOL....dont you people have anything else to do besides b*tch about our b*tching?

  20. #60
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Bossier Parrish, Louisiana
    Posts
    10,527

    Default

    I guess to me it comes down to the department being willingand/or able to make the tradeoffs needed to run with a quint instead of a "pure" truck company. Obviously the biggest trade-off is the increased costs, both initial purchase and long-term maintanence, but the other major tradeoff is the overall size and deminished manuerverability. In some communties, especially surburban areas, that is not as much of an issue as the strip malls, condo complexs and garden apartments that the quints will be used at usually allow a fair amount of space for the truck to gain access and provide a fair amount of working space. In the urban areas, often the space they have to squeeze in is minimal, and the larger quint would not be able to pull it off. I know for a fact this was a problem in 2 northeastern cities near where I volunteered ... both cities had purchased dual rear axle quints and later found that the apparatus either could not make it down the streets or had to backup once or twice to make the swing.

    In a perfect world we would have everything immediattly at hand, but often compromises must be made either to satisfy the need to keep purchases within budget or to meet the geographic specifics of the community.

    Finally you do need to ask yourself, are the tradeoffs worth the chance that the truck may actually be the first on scene to a meaningful (cars, trash, brush, sheds etc etc are not meangful fires) fire during its life enough to justify those increased costs and tradeoffs. In the vast majority of the cases, I would say the answer is no, but obviously that depends on the community, and even more importantly, the makeup of the fire department.

    Just my thoughts.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts