1. #1
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    959

    Exclamation Should FOOLS fight fire?

    No, not the F.O.O.L.S.!! But these FOOLS.. this was taken at the scene of a fatality house fire. It is posted on http://www.firenews.net with comments that readers made. I was just curious what your thoughts might be about this kind of photo being in the paper... sure has given them negative publicity on firenews.. Also, this is a link to the story if anyone is intersted in the fire.
    http://www.grahamstar.com/topstory.html
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  2. #2
    MembersZone Subscriber
    prymtym's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Ann Arbor, MI
    Posts
    175

    Thumbs down

    Chief in black jacket: "C'mon now, R.Dubya. You know better 'an that. Take off that mesh-back hat and cover yer mouth with it!"

    No offense,
    KC
    "PHILIPPEANS 4:13"

  3. #3
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Louisa KY
    Posts
    402

    Default

    Well lets see here, looks like the fool with the hooligan in his hand bustin out the window has his NFPA Compliant camo hat on. And that black coat yeah that's NFPA 1971, "1900" edition compliant. Gloves? We dont need no stinkin gloves! Very bad picture to be in the paper.
    "I truly believe that tradition is important to the long-term survival of the fire service."-Lt. Andrew Fredricks, FDNY,9-11-01

  4. #4
    Forum Member
    t13one12's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    171

    Default

    Fighting fire is like hunting...you can't let the enemy see you. (Hence the camo hat) It's an exterior attack guys, you aren't in any DANGER or anything.

    Good time for OSHA to read the paper...

    P.S. This was sarcastic in case you didn't notice.
    Last edited by t13one12; 03-07-2005 at 12:21 AM.

  5. #5
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    16

    Exclamation OMG!!

    This is why we still kill 100 firefighters a year in this country.

    Where is the safety officer?

    Interior/Exterior this scene is not controlled and not safe. If this is a drill the Lead Instructor for this drill will be arrested for his/her negligence. If this is a real fire the IC and safety have a lot of explaining to do.

  6. #6
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Covington, La
    Posts
    28

    Default Re: OMG!!

    Originally posted by FyrTrukee
    This is why we still kill 100 firefighters a year in this country.

    Where is the safety officer?

    Interior/Exterior this scene is not controlled and not safe. If this is a drill the Lead Instructor for this drill will be arrested for his/her negligence. If this is a real fire the IC and safety have a lot of explaining to do.
    I'm sure i'll catch flack for saying this...but.....
    volunteer department...you get what you pay for.

  7. #7
    Forum Member
    len1582's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    N.J.
    Posts
    1,392

    Default

    The Safety Officer is the one wearing the red shirt, making sure the scene is safe

  8. #8
    Forum Member
    Weruj1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    NW Ohio
    Posts
    7,857

    Default

    WOW ...........I just looked at the link........>definetly NOT the pic you want in the paper .........what else can you say ?
    IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
    Pardon me sir.. .....but I believe we are all over here !
    ATTENTION ALL SHOPPERS: Will the dead horse please report to the forums.(thanks Motown)
    RAY WAS HERE 08/28/05
    LETHA' FOREVA' ! 010607
    I'm sorry, I haven't been paying much attention for the last 3 hours.....what were we discussing?
    "but I guarentee you I will FF your arse off" from>
    http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...60#post1137060post 115

  9. #9
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    16

    Post He comes the flack.

    Volunteer or career. It comes to down to training, and the level of proficiency of those trainers. I have seen career firefighters that are "professionals" do this same thing. I have seen volunteer firefighters work better than career. I have seen differences in pholosophy between East/West coast. East coast seems to be more lax in its safety application.

    In my department we train like we "play" so it becomes second nature. I work in a combination department that the same standard is mandated through all ranks.

    Not bad flack, but

    Keeping it real.

  10. #10
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Covington, La
    Posts
    28

    Default Re: He comes the flack.

    Originally posted by FyrTrukee
    Volunteer or career. It comes to down to training, and the level of proficiency of those trainers. I have seen career firefighters that are "professionals" do this same thing. I have seen volunteer firefighters work better than career. I have seen differences in pholosophy between East/West coast. East coast seems to be more lax in its safety application.

    In my department we train like we "play" so it becomes second nature. I work in a combination department that the same standard is mandated through all ranks.

    Not bad flack, but

    Keeping it real.
    I'm sure it all depends on where you are in the world too....I know up north in maryland there are some volunteer depts that opperate on a professional level; however, i'd have to say the majority of volunteer depts are not....at least around here. With today's hectic schedules and busy lives, its increasingly harder for volunteers to make the time to obtain the necessary training. This forces the volunteer department to either go professional, run with only one or two qualified personel, disband, or lower the standards. Where I am from, though....I work for a small volunteer department as a part timer when i'm not on duty at my full time department, it amazes me every time I work a call there. Perhaps i'm just jaded from working at my second job.
    Last edited by sexauer; 03-06-2005 at 11:11 PM.

  11. #11
    unrepentant fool
    ranahan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    back home for the first time in MANY years
    Posts
    199

    Default Re: He comes the flack.

    Originally posted by FyrTrukee
    In my department we train like we "play" so it becomes second nature. I work in a combination department that the same standard is mandated through all ranks.
    Who says this department wasn't training as they play?
    Scary, I know.

    For every case of fireground stupidity that we see exhibited in pics, talked about in forums or articles, I wonder how many more go on without being mentioned.
    I know that we ALL make mistakes. I've been an idiot in the past too. But I got reprimanded (sometimes by myself), and I've learned. Until everyone starts learning, whether by experience or by having it drilled into heads, we are still going to see big numbers on the LODD and injury stats each year.

    What more can I do to stop it? What more can you do? That's worth thinking about, I believe.

  12. #12
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    California
    Posts
    584

    Default

    Not to defend a very unsafe practice but I've noticed on many of these threads people attacking pictures of stuff like this. Yes it does come down to training but there are many departments in the US whose best structure rig is a 40 year old brush truck, and whose training library consists of a coverless 1st ed IFSTA essentials. Sure there are grants out there but people need to know how to get them and that is something many paid Chiefs don't know how to do.

    Sorry to jump in like this but after seeing so many of these threads I just had to say something. I'm not sure whether is is better to have a bad fire department or no fire department.

  13. #13
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Covington, La
    Posts
    28

    Default Re: Re: He comes the flack.

    Originally posted by ranahan


    Who says this department wasn't training as they play?
    Scary, I know.
    Check out some of their photos from training (I like the practice burn best myself)

    http://www.main.nc.us/grahamcoems/photo_album.html

  14. #14
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    959

    Default Understandable...

    Originally posted by NonSurfinCaFF
    Not to defend a very unsafe practice but I've noticed on many of these threads people attacking pictures of stuff like this. Yes it does come down to training but there are many departments in the US whose best structure rig is a 40 year old brush truck, and whose training library consists of a coverless 1st ed IFSTA essentials. Sure there are grants out there but people need to know how to get them and that is something many paid Chiefs don't know how to do.

    Sorry to jump in like this but after seeing so many of these threads I just had to say something. I'm not sure whether is is better to have a bad fire department or no fire department.
    I understand where you are coming from.. but, I wasn't posting this to bash/attack this department/people. I was simply wanting to show how everything that we do on the scene is watched, and how important it is to always remember safety. I'm sure (I hope) this department had other members wearing full PPE, etc. but that wasn't the picture that was posted in the paper. For all we know, these guys were out of sight either in the back or at the side of the house.. but one photographer got a picture of them, and it just so happened to be the one that went in the paper. This post was mainly just to highlight the imporatance of using the media to work for your image.. not against it. A picture like this in the paper could turn the public's perception (and surrounding departments perception) of a professional department sour. There is an important lesson behind posting this picture... not just the lack of PPE...
    Last edited by FTMPTB15; 03-07-2005 at 03:00 AM.

  15. #15
    Forum Member
    firefightergtp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Chester, NY (Orange County)
    Posts
    294

    Default

    Originally posted by t13one12
    Fighting fire is like hunting...you can't let the enemy see you. (Hence the camo hat) It's an exterior attack guys, you aren't in any DANGER or anything.

    Good time for OSHA to read the paper...


    This kind of practice has to stop, but will it?? I doubt it. The problem is you have your invisible members, u know, the ones who are alot tougher than everyone else, we all know them, and we all know they are capable of this kind of foolishness.

  16. #16
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    California
    Posts
    584

    Default Re: Understandable...

    Originally posted by FTMPTB15


    I understand where you are coming from.. but, I wasn't posting this to bash/attack this department/people. I was simply wanting to show how everything that we do on the scene is watched, and how important it is to always remember safety.
    I'm sorry I didn't mean to single you out, or slam others comments, its just when I see these kind of things it makes me mad that there are many places in the US that this is the best they can expect, some don't even have a FD that performs at this level, yet we continue to pour money into other parts of the world before taking care of our own. Off my soap box.

  17. #17
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    959

    Default

    What's even more frustrating is those departments that have the equipment, which unfortunately not everyone can acquire (sp?), but choose not to use it... which is the case in this photo/post. The picture below is from a training burn.. if they'd only play like they practice they would've prevented major negative publicity.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  18. #18
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    216

    Default

    The Fact is that several departments have it in the SOP / SOG for gear. But getting them to were it on a vollie department is sometimes hard. Today we had a car fire, something a garden hose can put out. I was the only one in gear other then a Jr
    Thanks
    DM
    ___________
    "I am telling the truth, I was driving through the warehouse and the wall jumped in front of my fork lift. I honked the horn and it never listened."

  19. #19
    MembersZone Subscriber
    SteveDude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    London, England
    Posts
    1,254

    Default

    This is why we still kill 100 firefighters a year in this country.
    That is true...but look at the global condemantions these photos have caused on this forum and on the others....no one is supporting what went on at this job. And who are you? You are the US Fire Service and the condemnation on here shows why that 100 each year will begin to drop and why (Tragic unavoidable accident aside) no one here will ever become one of those Statistics.

    We went through the same thing 50/60 years ago...after the Blitz, the firemen who survived that thought they were bomb proof. Nothing ever again could throw at them what the Blitz did. Then after many many silly unavoidable Deaths the culture began to change, and the UK reduced Ff Fatalities down to about 1 per year by the late 90's...(However cutbacks and an explosion of fires/arson in the past few years is seeing this trend go up again!!!)
    Steve Dude
    IACOJ member
    www.fireservice.co.uk

    London Fire Brigade...."Can Do"


    'Irony'... It's a British thing.

  20. #20
    MembersZone Subscriber
    dmleblanc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Not the end of the earth but I can see it from here...
    Posts
    2,318

    Default

    Fighting fire is like hunting...you can't let the enemy see you.
    ...like photographers.....
    Chief Dwayne LeBlanc
    Paincourtville Volunteer Fire Department
    Paincourtville, LA

    "I have a dream. It's not a big dream, it's just a little dream. My dream and I hope you don't find this too crazy is that I would like the people of this community to feel that if, God forbid, there were a fire, calling the fire department would actually be a wise thing to do. You can't have people, if their houses are burning down, saying, 'Whatever you do, don't call the fire department!' That would be bad."
    C.D. Bales, "Roxanne"

  21. #21
    Junior Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    2

    Question kind of like this one?



    kind of like these fools?

  22. #22
    District Chief
    distchief60b's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    6,413

    Default

    I am thinking that it is not really smoke, but steam from a crack in the window of a steam room! Therefore....perhaps they don't need PPE!
    09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
    ------------------------------
    IACOJ Minister of Southern Comfort
    "Purple Hydrant" Recipient (3 Times)
    BMI Investigator
    ------------------------------
    The comments, opinions, and positions expressed here are mine. They are expressed respectfully, in the spirit of safety and progress. They do not reflect the opinions or positions of my employer or my department.

  23. #23
    MembersZone Subscriber
    SamsonFCDES's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    1,708

    Default

    This has been mentioned before.

    One of the factors that contribute to the high number of LODDs is that we are counting things as LODDs that would have never been coutned before.

    Going home after a fire and haveing a heart attack or car crash, etc...

    There seem to be far less fire ground deaths and I do belive IIRC there are less injuries with the new PPE standards.

    People still will manage to have heart attacks, car crashes, and freak accidents though. Like falling off a fire truck at a parade, etc...

    It realy POs me to see even the most poorly trained VFDs going to battle without proper PPE. That should be a no brainger even if you dont know which end the water comes out of the hose.

    Yes a VFD can be on the same level as a good paid department, but as was mentioned that is not easy. People these days are finding less and less time to devote to such things as volunteering for a FD. There is absolutly no way the entire nation could be a paid fire service, but that is the only way to realy enforce performance standards.

    A more realistic approach would be the give a major boost to the training service nation wide. Get more trainers out to these folks and SHOW THEM a better way. Complain about it all you want, the reality is that a lot of places in the US do not have access to adequate training resources.

    On the equipment issues, same thing. If the nation realy cared about this stuff, if the nation realy wanted a high level of fire services, then there would be no 50 year old apparatus or lack of PPE.

    The problem is I dont belive that Joe Citizen gives a crap.
    -Brotherhood: I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
    -Mistakes: It could be that the purpose of you life is to serve as a warning to others.

    -Adversity: That which does not kill me postpones the inevitable.

    -Despair: Its always darkest before it goes Pitch Black.

  24. #24
    Forum Member
    fftrainer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 1999
    Location
    Northern, NJ
    Posts
    889

    Default

    First thing first.... sexauer...

    I'm sure i'll catch flack for saying this...but..... volunteer department...you get what you pay for.
    take your 9 posts and a long hike if that's the best you can offer. As with the million other vol/career ****ing matches, there's no place for it. Fire kills firefighters regardless of whether or not you collect a paycheck and STUPID fireground activity like what is portrayed in the attached photo only helps to increase the potential of injury or death.

    The sad part here is that although this is only one incident and one picture, combine it with all of the ones posted on firefighterclosecalls.com and the number of occurances of this type of behavior is astounding.

    About the only thing positive I can come up with in this picture is that their gear(those who are actually wearing it) doesn't have their FD name on it.

    As with most anything else in the fire service, the only corrective action to this scenario will probably be a reactive one AFTER someone gets hurt or god forbid killed(or if OSHA does get a hold of the pic and show up for a visit)! We continue to operate as a reactive agency rather that a pro-active one. We give millions upon millions to fire fighting vehicles and equipment but scrounge for pennies when it comes to Fire Prevention activities.

    I guess it's the same old story that we all know, but its monday morning and this one forced me up on my soapbox.

    Stay Safe!

  25. #25
    the 4-1-4
    Jasper 45's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    ...A great place, on a Great Lake
    Posts
    2,784

    Default

    Take this statement as a fact, I am not condoning the events portrayed in this picture one bit.
    Now having said that, anybody who has ever been to a fire scene knows that at any given time your department is not operating 100% safe. You say that you are and I'll call you a liar. There is absolutely no way any department follows 100% of any NFPA standard, OSHA law, or any alphabet organization who writes laws and guidelines. It's just plain impossible to have happen.
    There are too many variables on a fireground, too many sudden changes in whatever scenario you could imagine.
    Please don't take this post as my defending of the 'camo' hat over helmet depiction.
    Last edited by jasper45; 03-07-2005 at 03:06 PM.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Log in

Click here to log in or register