1. #1
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    Angry Mayor of San Francisco has lost it- he wants to use fire trucks to help battle crime

    SAN FRANCISCO
    Newsom wants to use fire trucks to help battle crime
    He would plant firefighters in their rigs on street corners
    Rachel Gordon, Jaxon Van Derbeken, Chronicle Staff Writers

    Tuesday, March 8, 2005

    San Francisco Mayor Gavin Newsom suggested Monday that the city park fire trucks and their crews on streets in violence-prone neighborhoods to deter crime.

    A thug, he suggested, would be less likely to shoot someone in front of a firefighter.

    "I'm throwing this out there,'' Newsom said at a City Hall meeting attended by the police and fire chiefs and top aides in his administration. "I just think it may be a good thing.''

    His idea is to pull the firefighters out of their firehouses, where they're stationed when not responding to fires and medical emergencies, and plant them in their rigs nearby -- visible to the public. There are 43 fire stations in San Francisco.

    Newsom floated the idea in response to a recent surge in homicides in the city. There have been 19 so far this year, compared with 13 by this time in 2004.

    But unlike last year, when the killings were concentrated in and around the public housing projects in the southeast part of the city, this year's have been spread out in different neighborhoods.

    Deputy Chief Morris Tabak, who is in charge of investigations for the Police Department, described the recent increase as "a blip.''

    He said the killings stemmed mainly from personal spats rather than gang disputes, which accounted for many of the homicides in early 2004. Last year's homicide rate eased in the second half of the year as police focused on hot- spot areas and chronic criminals.

    Police Department statistics show that reported crime is down slightly in the public housing developments in Potrero Hill, Hunters Point and Sunnydale. In January 2004, there were 131 reported offenses. In January 2005, there were 113.

    For the most part, Tabak said, the slayings this year have been incidents "that no amount of proactive police work can prevent, unless you have a police officer on every corner.''

    And with resources limited, that's not going to happen. "We can't be everywhere at once,'' said Newsom, who added he is not satisfied that enough is being done to quell the violence. "I think the homicide rate is outrageous. This is my biggest burden.''

    He said the city needs to look beyond traditional policing and consider creative tactics, such as putting fire trucks on the streets. There already are plans in the works to park city ambulances in outlying neighborhoods later this year so they can respond to calls faster.

    Fire Chief Joanne Hayes-White said the mayor's idea for the firefighters might have merit, but she stopped short of endorsing it.

    "I agree there may be some deterrent to having apparatus deployed out there,'' Hayes-White said.

    Firefighters union chief John Hanley agreed but raised a number of concerns, with the safety of his members topping the list.

    "We're firefighters. We're not armed. My guys don't have bulletproof vests,'' Hanley said.

    And the one weapon firefighters do have readily available isn't an option, Hanley said. "We don't train fire hoses on people in San Francisco,'' he said.

    Police Capt. Rick Bruce of the Bayview Station said that while the district does have high-crime spots such as Third and Newcomb streets, he wasn't sure the plan was workable.

    "Unless we are going to place people there for 24 hours, you have no guarantee they are going to be present when the crime occurs,'' Bruce said.

    Deputy Police Chief Greg Suhr said putting a city vehicle on the streets, even a non-police car such as an ambulance, has a deterrent effect.

    "It does give people pause -- maybe somebody who is wondering about a particular area might think, 'This area gets a little crazy, so we'll go someplace a little quieter,' '' Suhr said.

    But Police Chief Heather Fong is concerned that stationing fire trucks at potential crime scenes could mean crews would be tied up as crime witnesses rather than being available to respond to an emergency, Suhr said.

    "She intends to have further dialogue with Hayes-White about the feasibility of the proposal,'' Suhr said.

    Firefighters at Station 17 at Shafter Avenue and Ingalls Street, a few blocks from several southeastern housing projects, were cool to the idea.

    One firefighter, who didn't want his name used for fear of retribution, said his job is to put out fires, not fight crime. Fire engine companies won't respond to shootings or stabbings until police tell them the scene is secure, the firefighter said.

    "Nobody signed up for this job to sit on the corner and play security guard," he said.

    Police said Monday there was little chance that stepped-up official presence on the streets would have headed off the city's latest killing.

    Eric Broussard, 28, was shot to death at Palou Avenue and Rankin Street in the Bayview around 4 a.m., authorities said.

    He and friends had been drinking and heckled two men as they walked by, apparently mistaking them for women, authorities said. One of the men opened fire, killing Broussard and wounding a 25-year-old man.

    Chronicle staff writer Wyatt Buchanan contributed to this report.E-mail the writers at rgordon@sfchronicle.com and jvanderbeken@sfchronicle.com.

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    Not good...not good at all.
    May we never forget our fallen, worldwide.

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    Thumbs down

    Idiot.

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    *Malahat pushes his way through the media crowd*:

    'Suse me... 'suse me.... pardon me... Excuse me Sir, but may I have some of whatever it is you are sniffing? I think it must be even better than BC Bud, cuz WOW MAN...... I think you are ONE CAARRRRAAAZZZZYYYYYYY DUDE!
    If you don't do it RIGHT today, when will you have time to do it over? (Hall of Fame basketball player/coach John Wooden)

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    I think you are ONE CAARRRRAAAZZZZYYYYYYY DUDE!

    Not the word I was thinking of for this mayor.


    Tanker
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    Is this guy for real????
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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    Angry Cold hearted rant on!

    Firefighters should NOT be used to fight crime. How about the cops get off there arse and fight crime! I didnt see any plan by the mayor to expand or utilize the police department.

    A SCUMBAG will not think twice about shooting someone wether there is a firetruck, police car,dump truck or whatever!!!!!!! He's going to shoot that person. The only real deterrent is to make these low life's gets jobs and off welfare or kill each other! Not needlessly risk firefighters lives doing someone else's job.

    RANT OFF!

    Cheffie, just curious.........is the police department or fire departments contract up for renewal?
    I dont suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.

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    As soon as my anger at the sheer stupdity of this calms down, I do believe it is time for another letter to Mayor Newsom. There have been enough stories posted here about firefighters being shot at and having rocks etc thrown at them.

    I know what we can do. Let's pull the politicians out of their offices when they are not responding and park them on the corners. Who would shoot a politician?

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    Tanker, you are correct, that really isnt the proper word to use, but the words I did have dont translate well here....
    If you don't do it RIGHT today, when will you have time to do it over? (Hall of Fame basketball player/coach John Wooden)

    "I may be slow, but my work is poor." Chief Dave Balding, MVFD

    "Its not Rocket Science. Just use a LITTLE imagination." (Me)

    Get it up. Get it on. Get it done!

    impossible solved cotidie. miracles postulo viginti - quattuor hora animadverto

    IACOJ member: Cheers, Play safe y'all.

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    Never bring a Axe to a gunfight son.
    -Brotherhood: I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
    -Mistakes: It could be that the purpose of you life is to serve as a warning to others.

    -Adversity: That which does not kill me postpones the inevitable.

    -Despair: Its always darkest before it goes Pitch Black.

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    Default Re: Mayor of San Francisco has lost it- he wants to use fire trucks to help battle crime

    Originally posted by superchef
    A thug, he suggested, would be less likely to shoot someone in front of a firefighter.
    Or just shoot the firefighter too.

    "I'm throwing this out there,'' Newsom said at a City Hall meeting attended by the police and fire chiefs and top aides in his administration. "I just think it may be a good thing.''
    Throw him out there.

    His idea is to pull the firefighters out of their firehouses, where they're stationed when not responding to fires and medical emergencies, and plant them in their rigs nearby -- visible to the public. There are 43 fire stations in San Francisco.

    Newsom floated the idea in response to a recent surge in homicides in the city. There have been 19 so far this year, compared with 13 by this time in 2004.

    But unlike last year, when the killings were concentrated in and around the public housing projects in the southeast part of the city, this year's have been spread out in different neighborhoods.

    Deputy Chief Morris Tabak, who is in charge of investigations for the Police Department, described the recent increase as "a blip.''

    He said the killings stemmed mainly from personal spats rather than gang disputes, which accounted for many of the homicides in early 2004. Last year's homicide rate eased in the second half of the year as police focused on hot- spot areas and chronic criminals.
    Sounds to me like a (half-assed) band-aid for the problem of not enough cops. Here's a novel idea...maybe it's indiciative of a largely ineffective if not failed court system.

    For the most part, Tabak said, the slayings this year have been incidents "that no amount of proactive police work can prevent, unless you have a police officer on every corner.''

    And with resources limited, that's not going to happen. "We can't be everywhere at once,'' said Newsom, who added he is not satisfied that enough is being done to quell the violence. "I think the homicide rate is outrageous. This is my biggest burden.''
    So in lieu of a sufficient number of patroling police officers who are trained and equipped for this stuff, I'll ease my "burden" by putting firefighters out there to "distract" these potential perpetrators for committing their bad acts.

    He said the city needs to look beyond traditional policing and consider creative tactics, such as putting fire trucks on the streets. There already are plans in the works to park city ambulances in outlying neighborhoods later this year so they can respond to calls faster.

    So this is just a recycled stupid idea. Now I can rest easy.

    Fire Chief Joanne Hayes-White said the mayor's idea for the firefighters might have merit, but she stopped short of endorsing it. "I agree there may be some deterrent to having apparatus deployed out there,'' Hayes-White said.
    I'll keep my mouth shut on this statement because I just can't really express my thoughts without a bunch of asterisks strung together, so I'll just say my initial impression of this "chief" isn't positve.

    "We're firefighters. We're not armed. My guys don't have bulletproof vests,'' Hanley said.
    Careful, John. They'll take that as an endorsement as long as you have vests.

    Police Capt. Rick Bruce of the Bayview Station said that while the district does have high-crime spots such as Third and Newcomb streets, he wasn't sure the plan was workable.

    "Unless we are going to place people there for 24 hours, you have no guarantee they are going to be present when the crime occurs,'' Bruce said.
    At least someone seems capable of some degree of critical thought.

    Deputy Police Chief Greg Suhr said putting a city vehicle on the streets, even a non-police car such as an ambulance, has a deterrent effect.
    Ok, so let's put the Mayor and some of the other government officials out there as a "listening" post in a marked vehicle. Perhaps that might help to "ease his burden."

    "It does give people pause -- maybe somebody who is wondering about a particular area might think, 'This area gets a little crazy, so we'll go someplace a little quieter,' '' Suhr said.

    So, it's ok to hang the firefighters out there as scarecrows, knowing that it's only likely to cause these people to go someplace else to kill someone, or just kill the firefighters to eliminate potential witnesses.[/quote][/b]
    But Police Chief Heather Fong is concerned that stationing fire trucks at potential crime scenes could mean crews would be tied up as crime witnesses rather than being available to respond to an emergency, Suhr said.

    Good conclusion, even if the reasoning goes way beyond that. It's a start though.

    "She intends to have further dialogue with Hayes-White about the feasibility of the proposal,'' Suhr said.
    I should hope to hell so! Maybe she'll help the fire chief get some backbone and stand up for her people. The first question for the fire chief should be something along the line of, "What the hell are you thinking?!"

    Firefighters at Station 17 at Shafter Avenue and Ingalls Street, a few blocks from several southeastern housing projects, were cool to the idea.
    I'm shocked! Forevermore, why?

    One firefighter, who didn't want his name used for fear of retribution, said his job is to put out fires, not fight crime. Fire engine companies won't respond to shootings or stabbings until police tell them the scene is secure, the firefighter said.

    "Nobody signed up for this job to sit on the corner and play security guard," he said.
    Good suggestion! Take everybody out of the trucks, and make the crews stand up and down the streets so they can hear screams and gunshots. It only stands to reason that you can't hear anything or see very far away from the safety of your truck. (I'm being facitious here in case anyone's wondering)

    This whole thing is nonsense that they would even consider this proposal. I'm beginning to think that this might be another good example of the problems with Chief officers that are political appointees, regardless of your qualifications. I certainly hope it is shown that this fire chief applied for her position by using a resume, and not a pedigree. Right now, I've got my own ideas of which was used.
    Last edited by Steamer; 03-08-2005 at 01:36 PM.
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    Exclamation

    This was probably a combination idea from the mayor and the fire chief. I know "she said" that it has "merit" but hasn't yet endorse it. Both thinks that the firefighters don't do anything any way, so lets put them on the street to sit at a corner and the ones who was thinking about committing a shooting, drug buy or something else, will think twice when seeing the big red fire truck, will make them go away! Vests are on the way for firefighters!

    Well, I have some land up in the mountains, that if I sugar coated it well, I could convince the mayor and the chief that it is prime beach front property and a steal if they would like to buy it!!

    A better idea!!! Why don't the mayor and chief go out and sit around the corners and maybe the crime will just go away!!


    Stay Safe and Well Out There....

    Always remembering 9-11-2001 and 343+ Brothers

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    If you want to park something on the street corner to act as a deterrent, this would be a better choice:
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    ullrichk
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    but the words I did have dont translate well here....

    Rick, I think those words will translate just fine, but the use of them will jeopardize your continued participation on these boards.


    Tanker
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    Mayor, pull over now and let the ludes wear off...
    "I am permaprobie, and I approve this message."

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    I know its been said already, but that mayor is a f**king idiot; in more ways than one. Hope he gets publicly ridiculed for such a stupid f**king idea. What a complete and hopeless moron.

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    I dont think that it would be cost effective to place high dollar fire assests on street corners to deter crime.

    I think they should go with the Tetra-Vaal Robotic Policing System.

    http://www.compfused.com/directlink/670/

    Robotic crime deterents. They have deployed robots in Iraq already, The Special Weapons Observation Reconnaissance Detection System, or SWORDS. This Tetra-Vaal system is even more advanced. The initial purchase cost would be high, but the long run costs are very afordable when you consider there are no wadges, benefits, etc... to deal with.

    A picture of the SWORDS Robot currently serving in Iraq.



    The Tetra-Vaal Robot.



    Put those guys on the street and watch crime vaporize in a hail of high velocity lead.

    Beats taking your fire hose to a gunfight IMO.
    -Brotherhood: I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
    -Mistakes: It could be that the purpose of you life is to serve as a warning to others.

    -Adversity: That which does not kill me postpones the inevitable.

    -Despair: Its always darkest before it goes Pitch Black.

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    Default Why?

    This would be lame mainly because fire stations are usually
    placed strategicly thought out a city or district.

    So now, move them around do disrupt response times, etc?

    THEN- You will have re-write every Fireifghter's job
    desciptionand give them more pay for hazardous duties?
    Thats gonna save money too?

    Give me a break Gavin, you moron.
    Last edited by CALFFBOU; 03-08-2005 at 02:15 PM.

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    Default Its time...

    Its time to bring back the man, the REAL crime fighter
    and American Hero...



    "Dead or alive, youre coming with me."

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    Thumbs down

    As if enough Brothers don't die from preventable situations! What a frickin fool. To much medicinal wacky tobacky mayor? Maybe The Gouvenator needs to slap him around.

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    WOW, NY isn't the only City with the Village (City) idiot playing Mayor. It appears these two are in a race to see who's the bigger one. I think the SF Mayor is in the lead.

    Maybe they should create a new reality series about and featuring stupid politicians with stupid ideas. The show could run forever, they’d have an endless supply of material.

    How do we elect these tools into public office?

    Stay Safe ---- especially you guys in SF

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    Is there an International school of Political ***** that these people go to?...It sounds just like the type of crazy idea that some politician over here would dream up...

    Anyone got an uninhabited Island they can sell to me... I'm gonna go live there on my own!!!
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    Originally posted by SteveDude
    Anyone got an uninhabited Island they can sell to me... I'm gonna go live there on my own!!!


    Yep we sure do! The whole westcoast of Canada is chocker block with em!
    If you don't do it RIGHT today, when will you have time to do it over? (Hall of Fame basketball player/coach John Wooden)

    "I may be slow, but my work is poor." Chief Dave Balding, MVFD

    "Its not Rocket Science. Just use a LITTLE imagination." (Me)

    Get it up. Get it on. Get it done!

    impossible solved cotidie. miracles postulo viginti - quattuor hora animadverto

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    Another Picture of the cop robot, SWORD.



    Put those on every steet corner and just blow the criminals to hell.

    -Brotherhood: I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
    -Mistakes: It could be that the purpose of you life is to serve as a warning to others.

    -Adversity: That which does not kill me postpones the inevitable.

    -Despair: Its always darkest before it goes Pitch Black.

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    Default wow

    I sent a letter to the editor of the Chronicle addressed to the Mayor. The newspaper just called me and they are publishing it tomorrow.

    As for the SWORD, I know where we can aim it Sampson. That is very cool toy.

    If I see any more updates, I'll post them. Someone asked me about police and firefighters contracts. That I do not know.

    Cheffie

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