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  1. #1
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    Default FDNY & pre-piped waterways

    Why do FDNY trucks (rear mounts) not have pre-piped waterways? Is this due to tight space in the firehouses, tradition, or extra cost? Maybe something else? How many dept's still order trucks without this feature. Why does your dept. do it(besides what the FDNY guys have to say)? Just wondering.....


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    Default Re: FDNY & pre-piped waterways

    Originally posted by ehs7554
    Why do FDNY trucks (rear mounts) not have pre-piped waterways? Is this due to tight space in the firehouses, tradition, or extra cost? Maybe something else? How many dept's still order trucks without this feature. Why does your dept. do it(besides what the FDNY guys have to say)? Just wondering.....
    Because they generally don't use their aerial trucks for elevated master streams. From what I've seen they use tower ladders almost exclusively.

  3. #3
    Permanently Removed AsstEngineer292's Avatar
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    ^^Yes this is true they use the Tower Ladders for master streams, they use the aerials,ladder trucks for rescue/search and well, using them to get into higher places in short period of time.

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    While the rear mounts are equipped with removable master streams, very rarely are they used. Almost exclusively the Tower Ladder is used for master stream operations. Through experience, it is tougher to position and get on and off the aerial with the waterway due to the fact that you have to clear the objective enough so the waterway doesn't touch the roof line or sill. This in turn increases the height at which the ladder is at making quick egress difficult, especially for the vertically challenged. It takes 2 minutes to set up the removable pipe, and unless you go ugly early, there really isn't a need for a pre-piped stick.
    "I have no ambition in this world but one, and that is to be a fireman. The position may, in the eyes of some, appear to be a lowly one; but we know the work which a fireman has to do believe that his is a noble calling."

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  5. #5
    Senior Member Dalmatian90's Avatar
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    Like the others said

    FDNY uses the ladders primarily as rescue & rapid access devices.

    Out in my neck of the woods, any urgent rescues would be made from the inside and/or over a 14'/28'/35' ground ladder before the aerial would have it's outriggers in position (<-- not that big of an exageration...well, maybe the 35' since we don't carry one on the first due Engine-Tank anymore and would have to wait for the Ladder to arrive to pull it's 35.)

    In our case, the aerial is used primarily as an big-flow & safer access device -- where we've spent 10-15 minutes working the aerial into place and establishing the water supply for it...or yes, we could put out the chimney fire without it, but since we have it, it is safer working tethered off the aerial than just standing on a roof ladder.

    In either case the pre-pipe doesn't bother us 'cause we're dealing with plays that take 10-20 minutes to setup, not the 1-2 minute range of doing a high-pickoff or gaining access to a high roof to vent it to allow the hose monkeys to move forward.
    IACOJ Canine Officer
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    We have plenty of tower ladders, we have ladder pipes with 3 1/2" hose on the rig, and the guys to put it in operation within about 5 min. in the rare case its used.
    We use the aerial for roof access and window access, and also for venting windows on upper floors (extend ladder through upper pane and lower into the window )
    So in a nut shell; we dont need them, so the city shouldnt pay for them.

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    wouldn't a pinnable waterway work...I mean you can pin it to the second fly when not needed and in a matter of minutes pin it to the third (or whatever the last one is) when you need big water.

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    wouldn't a pinnable waterway work...I mean you can pin it to the second fly when not needed and in a matter of minutes pin it to the third (or whatever the last one is) when you need big water.
    No a pinable waterway really wouldn't work and this photo is one reason why not.

    Guess where the waterway would be if there were one on this ladder. It would be boken and bent along with the parapet.

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  9. #9
    MembersZone Subscriber jfTL41's Avatar
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    The PRIMARY reason we do not spec aerials with prepiped waterways is overall height. Our aerial apparatus must have an overall height of not more than 130 inches, due to firehouse door height in some of the older houses as well as low overpasses on parkways.
    And we operate 62 tower ladders.

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    One of the departments in my county recently got a ALF w/o a waterway. They took heat for the idea but they have there reasons and I think it suiets there needs well.
    Bucks County, PA.

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    Arrow

    I seem to remember our few tillers at one time had a single section of pipe with a nozzle.

    I'm not sure perhaps jfTL41 knows but I think the idea was that if a Tiller was required to get into the block a Tower Ladder probably couldn't. The last time I saw one of the tillers I don't recall seeing them.

    As for other people...I recall an article a few years back were a dept in think in the Northwest figured out the cost of the pre-plumbed pipe wasn't worth the few times a year they needed it and used the hose method instead.

    Would it be good for everyone..no, some yes.

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  12. #12
    Forum Member fftrainer's Avatar
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    We do not have pre-piped on our stick however we recently added a remote controlled nozzle to the tip and drag hose up to it, so we are now officially screwed with regard to getting close to certain facilities and we lose the clear the window technique. I really did like the look on peoples faces when, as the aerial operator you had the whole second floor clear of glass before the rookies even got the ground ladder off the rig.

    However, we weighed out what we do more and based on call volume and the nature of the calls, we found that we go mutual aid for master stream, etc more than we do for rescue or anything else. Probably not a valid comparison to NY or any other city, but its another opinion to address your questions.

    FYI - with our community growing (or should I say multiplying) over the next few years we are looking at adding a tower ladder to our fleet and the nozzle mentioned earlier will be coming of the ladder thereby putting the truck back to being strictly the aerial device it really wants to be.

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