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  1. #1
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    Default career vs. volunteer

    I'm currently looking for information on how switching from a career FD to a volunteer FD affects a city (economically, socially, insurance costs, etc). any assistance would be appreciated...


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    ROFLMAO! Oh dude, why don't you just ask who believes in God and which religion is best????
    "The more we sweat in training, the less we bleed in battle."

  3. #3
    MembersZone Subscriber firepimp's Avatar
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    My county just went from all volunteer to a combination system , has left a bad taste in a lot of volunteers mouths for theres things the deputy chief has done horribly wrong. But the greatest ting is he mainly hired alot of the volunteers that applied and were qualified.

    The county is very happy about it , better response times , for a while alot of community memebers bitching about response times saying its not the volunteers fault its the systems fault. Theres times where they'll have to triple tone just for a vehicle accident.

    I was on one of the busiest departments in the county around 100 calls a month more or less at times but always around 85 - 130 . And i transfered to the second busiest and moved right behind it , well i stop in my other department from time to time and theyve gone down from 26 members down to 14 and 4 are leaveing because they were just hired by the county from that one department , so theyre going to have a very tuff time getting response out of that station.

    I dont know if this is anything your looking for but I figured I'd type away.
    " We are not extraordinary people , we are people caught in extraordinary situations. " Chapter 1 IFSTA Manual

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    MembersZone Subscriber firepimp's Avatar
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    Also career is better all around , volunteer people do not have the training at all times , people have jobs and families and firefighting is more of a hobbie than a job. I do not look down on volunteer departments because I am one , but its just a lack of things from people at times.
    " We are not extraordinary people , we are people caught in extraordinary situations. " Chapter 1 IFSTA Manual

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    Forum Member DennisTheMenace's Avatar
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    Originally posted by mcleoud151
    ROFLMAO! Oh dude, why don't you just ask who believes in God and which religion is best????
    Be for Peace, but don't be for the Enemy!
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    LOL....dont you people have anything else to do besides b*tch about our b*tching?

  6. #6
    Forum Member DennisTheMenace's Avatar
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    Originally posted by firepimp
    Also career is better all around , volunteer people do not have the training at all times , people have jobs and families and firefighting is more of a hobbie than a job. I do not look down on volunteer departments because I am one , but its just a lack of things from people at times.
    Well that just depends on the departmnet. There are many volunteer departments that train a heck of a lot more then the average career departments. There are career departments who's training sucks compared to the average volly department. A department that has a training night of four hours a week trains as much or more then the average career department that has one hour a duty day set aside for training.
    Be for Peace, but don't be for the Enemy!
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    Learn from the mistakes of others; you won't live long enough to make them all yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    LOL....dont you people have anything else to do besides b*tch about our b*tching?

  7. #7
    Forum Member fftrainer's Avatar
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    Two things........

    Also career is better all around , volunteer people do not have the training at all times , people have jobs and families and firefighting is more of a hobbie than a job.
    With a subject like this, how did I guess it would come to a statement like that?!

    Secondly, this 1 post guy is looking for info on the opposite of most places... unless it is worded wrong the question was regarding going from career to volunteer. Not very familiar with that arrangement or how it would happen but somebody saw a reason to ask.

  8. #8
    MembersZone Subscriber firepimp's Avatar
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    Originally posted by DennisTheMenace
    Well that just depends on the departmnet. There are many volunteer departments that train a heck of a lot more then the average career departments. There are career departments who's training sucks compared to the average volly department. A department that has a training night of four hours a week trains as much or more then the average career department that has one hour a duty day set aside for training.
    very true I guess in my neck of the woods people are just lax , we do alot of training and alot of drills and such I thik its great , but its so hard to get people to show alot of times , and alot of theyre responses at times are what if I dont show what are they gonna do " dock my pay " " fire me ??" cause I guess theyre to that point of been doing it so long and not caring anyways lets get back on track and give this guy some info he can use.
    " We are not extraordinary people , we are people caught in extraordinary situations. " Chapter 1 IFSTA Manual

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    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
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    Default Re: career vs. volunteer

    Originally posted by PTBlaw
    I'm currently looking for information on how switching from a career FD to a volunteer FD affects a city (economically, socially, insurance costs, etc). any assistance would be appreciated...
    Never heard of that actually happening anywhere.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  10. #10
    Forum Member HeavyRescueTech's Avatar
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    me neither.
    If my basic HazMat training has taught me nothing else, it's that if you see a glowing green monkey running away from something, follow that monkey!

    FF/EMT/DBP

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    That makes three of us...

  12. #12
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    Default Re: career vs. volunteer

    Originally posted by PTBlaw
    I'm currently looking for information on how switching from a career FD to a volunteer FD affects a city (economically, socially, insurance costs, etc). any assistance would be appreciated...
    Talk to fieldseng2.. their department is fighting something like that right now. It really seems backasswards to go from Career to Volunteer. Typically if the area is big/busy enough to constitute a full-time career department, switching to a 100% volly would probably create major issues.

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    I would like to request this thread close before this gets completely out of hand.

    For the record, all of the animosity of career firefighters towards the vollies is because of situations like this. Cities see the inexpense of volly dept's in neighboring communities, and figure why not save X millions of dollars a year, and career goes volly. Will it work? Maybe, maybe not. If it doesn't, what is this community left with? If it does, then sobeit. But how many brothers would lose their jobs?

    If you want the issues, you ought to research the logistics of this new volly department (who would be in charge, how would he/she be elected to craft this dept), the effect on the ISO ratings of the town and hence, the spikes in homeowners' taxes, the interest from potential vols, and what would happen to response times, training, and services provided.

    One is no better than the other, except to the brothers losing their jobs

  14. #14
    Forum Member DennisTheMenace's Avatar
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    I have heard of towns dropping their 2-6 paid guys from a psudo-combo department, but never switch to a volunteer department from a fully minimally staffed career department. Well they might have done that in Chernobol.
    Be for Peace, but don't be for the Enemy!
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    Learn from the mistakes of others; you won't live long enough to make them all yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    LOL....dont you people have anything else to do besides b*tch about our b*tching?

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    [QUOTE]
    If you want the issues, you ought to research the logistics of this new volly department (who would be in charge, how would he/she be elected to craft this dept), the effect on the ISO ratings of the town and hence, the spikes in homeowners' taxes, the interest from potential vols, and what would happen to response times, training, and services provided.
    QUOTE]

    I am a law student doing research for a paper and figured it would be best to start gaining information straight from the horse's mouth (mainly firefighters themselves). it's a strange situation for communities to switch from career to volunteer but it does happen. How would I start finding the effect on the ISO ratings of the town and the spikes in homeowners' taxes, etc. from your quote above?

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    HANG ON, SIT DOWN, BUCKLE UP and GO FOR A RIDE !
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  17. #17
    MembersZone Subscriber firepimp's Avatar
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    Every Sssssssssshhhhhhhhhhh hes a lawyer . Damn I knew it was a trap.
    " We are not extraordinary people , we are people caught in extraordinary situations. " Chapter 1 IFSTA Manual

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    MembersZone Subscriber fieldseng2's Avatar
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    Talk to fieldseng2.. their department is fighting something like that right now. It really seems backasswards to go from Career to Volunteer. Typically if the area is big/busy enough to constitute a full-time career department, switching to a 100% volly would probably create major issues


    As soon as I saw this post I thought to myself......"SELF....this has got to be someone from my city administation.......lol"



    I don't know if this person is serious, joking, or what. But, no offense to volunteers anywhere....I was one for 6 years. In this part of the country it is not common for volunteers to man stations around the clock...they usually respond from home. Taking that in consideration, no one can argue that response times would be delayed versus a staffed firehouse.


    PTBlaw.....these are the compromises you have to be willing to sell to your community if you are considering this:

    1) A possibility of higher property damage due to the delay in response, 2in/2out, and the vital operations that MUST be done simulataneously at any fire.

    2) Decreases the chances of survival if a victim is trapped in a structure for the same variables listed in #1

    3) Increases risk of firefighter injuries/deaths. Fewer personnel on the scene would mean those on the scene have double or triple the responsibilities. More stress, quicker fatigue, and the possibilty of someone taking a greater risk than necessary. (read #1)

    4) If you provide EMS...this could decrease the chances of patient survival during a stroke, heart attack, OD, or any other life and death medical emergency.

    #3 could very likely take a big bite out of the community's check book due to the possibilty you could be liable for doing this in the 1st place.

    I don't have the numbers, but insurance rates would most likely increase, if you are a public official...you better pay attention to public opinion....I would think very few communities that have a paid dept. would appreciate you getting rid of a manned firehouse and implementing volunteers....as a tax payer and registered voter in my city... I will definately remember you come election time.

    My city is growing/developing like crazy....demands for service keep going up..and there are no signs of it slowing down..I don't understand why my city officials are considering this.

    If money is an issue..I suggest working with your firefighters. Ask them what could be done to 'supplement resources' without compromising their safety or the public. Alternative sources of revenue might be something you want to explore.

    No matter how you look at it...going from an all paid force to volunteers ....is a reduction in the level of proection you provide to the community...this has nothing to do with the professionalism of the volunteers ...Unless you find fully trained,fit for duty personnel to man the firehouses for free 24hrs/day....this is just an all around bad idea that is doomed to fail and may come back to bite you later.



    fieldseng2
    Last edited by fieldseng2; 03-10-2005 at 03:47 PM.

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    Would be curious if the original poster could mention a few places where this has happened in the past, as I have never heard of it happening either.

    Guess we gots a foursome now .. who's teeing off first ?

  20. #20
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    I have a question...other than saving money at the expense of public safety..

    Why would a community want to do this in the first place?


    PTBlaw..I would be curious to your findings...I'd appreciate it if you could email what you findout...


    fieldseng2

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