Thread: Turnout Gear

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    Default Turnout Gear

    I am not a frequent reader of the fourms so I apologize if this topic has been brought up before. I searched the threads breifly and was unable to find a related topic. With that said, my Department is a small suburban Department that was just awarded a Fire Act Grant. Included is funds for turnout gear. We met with several manufacturer's, some good and some bad. We have narrowed the search to Morning Pride and Globe and specifically the Globe G-Extreme. In trying to be as informed as possible and sift through the "Free" information from the vendors and manufacturers, I'd like to hear goods and bads of both. I know everyone has personal preference for their own reasons, but how has the wearability and durability been. Fit and feel, how receptive was the manufacturer to any problems. We are going to make a very substaintial investment in this and we want to be sure we are as educated in that decision as possible. Thanks for the time and comments.

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    Default Globe X-treme

    We just got the gear - best gear we have had !!!

    That would be my choice. But also some surrounding departments have the morning pride and they like that. Morning Pride I believe is alittle more expensive.

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    I love fire dex I dont know how anyone else feels about it but I love it , Ive ripped and torn up many globe pants , never had the problem with fire dex and Ive never tried morning pride but fire dex for me please.
    " We are not extraordinary people , we are people caught in extraordinary situations. " Chapter 1 IFSTA Manual

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    My Dept went to the Morning Pride about a year ago. Decent gear, wears well for most of us. We did have a few issues getting the coats to fit correctly on some of our larger members, something about all the weight balanced at the neckline. Mine are very comfortable and fit correctly. Morning pride also fixed them in less than a week (including shipping time) after I burned a few holes in em when a roof came in on my crew and I. Good luck!


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    FDOBSTN29 - use the search button to the left and type in TURNOUT GEAR. You will be amazed at the number of times this has been hashed.

    Globe and Morning pride are both excellent!
    Dave
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    thanks Dave !
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    A search will work well....Laughing...

    I prefer and recommend Quaker........

    Not impressed with Globe
    Do not like Securitex or Fire Dex at all
    Morning Pride is way too pricey...you pay for the name

    Bottom line is that all gear is made to NFPA 1971, 2000 Edition. Each manufacturer has their own way to do it. Each also has their little gimmicks such as MPs "inspection panel" for the vapor barrier.

    I have talked to the experts that do repair work on Vapor Barriers and they say that someone who does not do this type of work can not see any delamination or degradation unless it is extreme. By that time someone has most likely already been burned. So the MP inspection panel is a gimmick to make you think you got something that you did not.

    Who wants to accepted the liability for looking at my vapor barrier through this little gimmick and certify it as ok? Can I get that in writing?
    09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
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    I dont know Captstan - I think i would rather eat my cereal than wear it!! That or go for Kellogs - at least it would bring out the tiger in me roar - ohhhhhh - way to early in the morning!!!
    -I have learned people will forget what you said,
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    -But people will never forget how you made them feel!

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    FDOBStation29

    I am in the process of submitting our grant for the '05 cycle on TOG.

    Based on my own research (and I am far from an expert on the matter) here are my thoughts on the subject.

    There are 3 basic things to compare different Mfg's (and even different styles from the same mfg) TOG.

    1) Material
    All TOG material is designed to the same standards and *almost* all the Mfg's get their material from the same mills (Dupont, Southern Mills, etc.) so make sure you compare apples to apples.

    Brand X may offer you a 60/40 Kevlar/Nomex shell while MP offers you "Advance" - guess what. . . "Advance" is the trade name of Southern Mills brand of 60/40 Kevlar/Nomex (And the number of example like this go on and on). Bottom line - don't let a fancy name fool you it's still the same stuff.

    2) Cut, Construction, and Fit
    Cut & fit go hand in hand. Even within the same Mfg. a different cut/style of gear may fit you better than another. Test fit EVERY Brand/Style/Material combination that you are interested in to make sure they move & give where you need them to.

    Construction - just like cars - each Mfg. can take the same raw material and using different construction processes turn out a substantially different product. Pay attention to the details - how are seams joined/stitched, how are pockets attached, etc.

    3) Service
    Just like anything else - how easily accessible is the sales rep going to be if you have a problem 2 years down the road.


    That all being said - please note that NFPA 1971 (Standard on Structural TOG) is currently under review for a new version to be released in 2006.

    Also there are other newer *standards* such as Project Fire & Project Hero that are much more stringent than the NFPA 1971 *standard* that you may want to check into as well.

    Best of luck with whatever gear you end up with - hope it serves you well.
    Take Care - Stay Safe - God Bless
    Stephen
    FF/Paramedic
    Instructor

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    I've looked a bit, finding only some references, but where in the heck can I find the Project Fires and Heroes "guidelines"? I've yet to find a complete document indicating what they recommend.

    FWIW - we now use the Project Fires striping pattern on our coats with the addition of a vertical stripe down the outer trouser leg. Our guys glow like they're radioactive, so they're easier to see. Whether that makes them easier targets or not for the drunks, we'll have to see. They'll have to try pretty dog gone hard to get past the engine blocking the road. Then again, I watched at a medical call while a drunk got in his car and backed straight into a police cruiser (one of four or so) that had been sitting there for a good half hour, warning lights flashing away.
    Last edited by npfd801; 03-11-2005 at 11:43 AM.

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    Default Project Fire and Project hero's

    I'm going to plead my ignorance......but what is Project Fire and Project Hero? I'm not familiar with them...could someone point me in the direction please?

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    As a rural dept we don't get enough traffic have any really strong preferances, just don't spend that much time in turnout gear. But.

    In 2004 Dept got me a new set of Morning Pride. I wrote/we received a FY04 Fire Grant for turnout gear, just received Lion for everyone. So I have 2 new sets. Both measured by the sales rep.

    I find the Lion to be much more comfortable, greater range of movement, just fits my 6'5" 200lb much better. I'm just not particularily impress by the Morning Pride, was expecting a "Lincoln/Cadillac" experince and hohum.

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    Project fires is a group of folks that came together and agreed on certain types of trim and fabrics I beleive. Each manufacturer will place Project Fuires Trim on your gear as specified. It is the pattern that had the vertical lines down the back of the coat and the trim down the leg. That is the description in a nut shell. Someone else please jump right in here and help me out.
    09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
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    ------------------------------
    The comments, opinions, and positions expressed here are mine. They are expressed respectfully, in the spirit of safety and progress. They do not reflect the opinions or positions of my employer or my department.

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    Jumping in but for other reasons - there have been burn patterns associated with trim, most severe are the vertical strips. If they are not constructed of a breathable material they will absorb and retain heat. In a flashover the stripping can ignite and cause more serious burns.

    Sorry just had to throw that one in - I believe Dallas has had the laest incident of these types of burns.
    -I have learned people will forget what you said,
    -People will forget what you did,
    -But people will never forget how you made them feel!

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    Figure out what you want in gear, shell fabric, liners, pockets... buy one set of each and have a couple of members beat the snot out of it on runs and in training. Decide what you like better and go with it. I have four sets of M.P. and I'd get the Globe if it were up to me, the new stuff is great, M.P. says globe copied the improvments from them, so what. The Morning Pride I wear at home and at work does not hold up as well as some of the Globe Products I've had Previously. M.P. is getting by on people doing what FDNY and some other Major Depts do. People are buying a look not necessarliy quality, when our gear gets messed up we go to the quartermaster and get new stuff, if you are buying for a small dept especially a volly outfit where you need to seek approval for everything you need to ensure you are buying the best quality you can afford.

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    I'm investigating the trim with the "pinholes" to eliminate steam burns for our next gear order, but I'll say this - every class and lecture I've attended, given by folks with far more experience than myself have said that I'll have bigger problems than my trim igniting if I'm caught in a flashover. I just don't think that's a real concern, as everything you're wearing will be on fire within a second or two...

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    NPFD its not about the trim igniting - as we all know if you reach ignition temps you are pretty much toast. What I am talking about is the trim absorbing and trapping radiant heat, thus burning the wearer. In a flashover you can survive - many have (good way to get new gear.....well gauranteed anyway ) but if the trim started to burn it will burn up along the verticle and get your neck, especially if you are one of those none believers in the hood. Thats the nuts im getting at with the trim.
    -I have learned people will forget what you said,
    -People will forget what you did,
    -But people will never forget how you made them feel!

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    Howdy gents - just did some more research on the mesh type reflective tape. The one they are saying will relieve steam burns Well as I have previously stated the burns from the trim are not steam burns but burns caused by the buildup of absorbed heat in the material itself. These burns continue to happen even with the mesh material. Back to the drawing board for some I geuss!

    Stay safe!
    -I have learned people will forget what you said,
    -People will forget what you did,
    -But people will never forget how you made them feel!

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