1. #1
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    Default Nfpa 1901 Question

    I have a question about 1901. It says mobile cascade systems must be contained. My question is do they have to be completely contained? Meaning, when you fill the bottles do they need to be in a fill station where you need to close it up or can the bottles slide down in a cylinder with the top of it open. The ones with the top open, they are made to prevent the bottle from exploding out, they explode up through the opening. FYI, doign a truck spec and was wondering how that works. Thanks


    Stay safe

    Auk

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    If you're specing apparatus, just spec a cascade system of the appropriate size and with the access options you want (see below) and stop there. You can ask for one of the old-style cascades with frag chutes that are open at the top, but you won't get it.

    The only thing you'll get from any apparatus builder or cascade system manufacturer today is a system where the cylinders being filled are enclosed, top and all sides, by a frag shield, with the potential blast directed downward and inward toward the street under the rig. It'll also have a check valve which prevents you from flowing any air unless the frag shield door is closed. There are different ways of achieveing this setup, some with stationary cylinder chutes and doors, some with revolving cylinder chutes so that you can load/unload cylinders while others are filling, some with chutes on the doors, and probably more, but they will all have full containment.

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    Default DESIGN RECOMMENDATON

    Mr. Barker:

    My recommendation is the same as Bob Snyder. Keep your specificaton referenced to NFPA 1901. LEAVE THE DESIGN AND ENGINEERING TO THE BUILDER. If you make specification to items outside of the current standards, you buy the liability.

    This is true of so much of what goes into the spec of any apparatus. NFPA 1901 is well written and is a MINIMUM standard. When you write your specification, you are welcome to insert items that spell out brands/models of componentry and any enhancement to the minimum listed item as described by NFPA 1901.

    Respectfully submitted,

    Anthony Bulygo

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    I think the fill station, due to the "quick fill" nature used to fill SCBA bottles on scene, is what needs to provide containment. The cascade bottles on the truck, from which the fill station draws air, need not be contained as they are typically filled at a much slower rate from a compressor.

    Going off the topic a bit - the revolving fill station option looks really interesting and very efficient. We have a Sidewinder style fill station on our cascade equipped unit, which was necessary due to the cascade being added to an existing apparatus with space limitations. One thing to consider with that style is that you can not fill SCUBA bottles, as they will not fit in the containment area.

    I don't know if anyone will build you an apparatus with a cascade and no containment unit, though NFPA standards aren't always LAW, so perhaps someone would fulfill this request with the proper liability release. Also, there is nothing saying that a builder couldn't build a compartment or space to hold the cascade bottles, and you install something like this:

    Basic DOT Cascade

    They also sell "Pop Cans" to contain a cylinder rupture.

    Pop Cans

    A lot of suggestions, but the best answer would come from a knowledgeable and honest apparatus salesman. I don't know for a FACT about all of this...

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    Originally posted by npfd801
    I think the fill station, due to the "quick fill" nature used to fill SCBA bottles on scene, is what needs to provide containment. The cascade bottles on the truck, from which the fill station draws air, need not be contained as they are typically filled at a much slower rate from a compressor.
    You're correct. I should have been more precise in what I was writing. The master cylinders do not require containment; it's the fill station that does. Sorry about that.

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    And for what it's worth, most if not all reputable apparatus manufacturers will NOT build a non-complient fill station whether you want it or not. They will politely tell you "I'm sorry, but we can't build this truck for you." Actually, that goes for most of the truck, not just the fill stations. If you spec non-complient anything, they will rework the plans to make it spec or tell you to take a hike.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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    Default

    I think I may have worded my question wrong. I'm not wanting to put a non compliant system on my truck. We are applying for a grant for this vehicle. One of my selling points it the mobile cascade system. Reason I was wondering about the standards is we have a neighboring department that has one on it but the top of the frag is open. Thats why I was wondering if that is compliant.If it is not then I have a good selling point for the system. I'm looking at a 50 mile radius around our department where nobody has a mobile cascade system. I feel this selling point will help me with the higher ups in maybe being rewarded the grant. I appreciate all the feedback from all of you. I have learned a few things from what everyone has posted. Thanks again for all the comments.


    Arthur

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