1. #1
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    Default Vehicle Exhaust Systems

    Is there anyone out there who has information on what fema is looking for when evaluating a grant proposal for a station vehicle exhaust system? Has anyone been succesfull and willing to share their success? Looking for some help.

    Thanks.

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    We recieved a grant in 2003 to install a vehicle exhaust system at the department's 2 stations. We had the Plymovent system installed.

    If you look at page 20, paragraph 2 of the 2005 program guidance, it will give you info on what's required for the vehicle exhaust system.

    I'll e-mail a copy of the narrative to you.

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    Would appreciate a copy also.

    We applied for it in 2003 but got turned down. I don't think it was a big priority that year but after reading this year's program it looks like it has moved up the list.

    Thanx.
    Steve Dragon
    FFII, Fire Instructor II, Fire Officer I, Fire Appartus Driver Operator Certified
    Volunteers are never "off duty".
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    onebugle, I am also interested in vehicle exhast system. Can you e-mail me a copy of your narrative for reference. Thanks

    MLFR@frontiernet.net

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    A big portion of the consideration regarding exhaust systems depends on your fire department's classification and useage of your station.

    If you are a volunteer department whose station is only staffed during calls and training, you will score lower than a department who staffs their station on a more consistent basis (i.e. full-time department, part-time department, etc). Not saying you won't receive a grant, but you will probably not be as high up on the list.

    It is the same, but reversed, for fire alarm and sprinkler systems. Full-time staffed departments will not receive as much points in lieu of part-time or less staffed stations. It is assumed that full-time stations are staffed more than part-time and less stations and that they would be able to detect a fire sooner.

    HOWEVER, it all ultimately comes down to how you justify your grant and your narrative. You may be a volunteer department who only staffs the station a few times a month, but if you do your research and write your narrative well enough, you would possibly have a good shot. Don't just give the narrative to your chief or fellow department member's to read...give it to people who are not associated with your department (I recommend, however, sticking with people who are affiliate with the fire service).

    Good luck!

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    Question Exhaust System

    Onbugle could your send me the narritive we tried in 2004 for the Plymovent and got the Dear John email Thanks

    Maurie Worthen Capt
    Hampstead Fire & Rescue NH
    nuke911@comcast.net

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    Originally posted by onebugle
    We recieved a grant in 2003 to install a vehicle exhaust system at the department's 2 stations. We had the Plymovent system installed.

    If you look at page 20, paragraph 2 of the 2005 program guidance, it will give you info on what's required for the vehicle exhaust system.

    I'll e-mail a copy of the narrative to you.

    Could you please email me a copy also.

    swampbox@hotmail.com

    Thanks

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    Pshh, wish we could get an exhaust system, our building is only 10 foot heigh, and the doors only open to 9'8'. So we're trying to get the Ward Diesel Apparatus Mounted system.

    E-mail me at Asst.Chief292@comcast.net

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    One thing to remember, often the location of your sleeping quarters in stations that are manned w/ paid staff is key as well. Less consideration if your quarters are not to the rear of the bay or directly overhead.

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    So we're trying to get the Ward Diesel Apparatus Mounted system.
    Having experience with the Ward Diesel No-Smoke I wouldn't recommend wasting your money on it.

    http://cms.firehouse.com/forums2/sho...786#post408786

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    ^^Gee thanks man. We have a 79' FDNY Mack refurbed in 91 but it smokes like a mother, ha, but seriously it smokes the ENTIRE STATION even though it's 2nd out, anyone know of any other systems? We have a 10Ft building so yea, we need a small system.

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    We are asking for a AirMation ceiling mounted unit for our bays. It seems to be the alternative to the hose system, and from what I've been able to find out, meets all of the required standards They are at airtechnologysoultions.net May work for those short bays.

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    Cool

    We recived an AFG for a venting system in 2003 we used Plymovent, the Plymovent people were very helpfull they came to our station and gave us a lay out and a price to install. The fast that we share our station with PD and it is used for girl scouts, boy scouts, old folks card games, asd well as some selectmens meetings. I feel this was a huge help to gaining the grant. We are a combination dept (only the chief is full time). This same system was rejected @ town meeting the year before. We are very greatfull FEMA awarded this to us , It has cut down on airborne diesel fumes so everybody breathes easier!

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    For those of you looking into the exhaust systems and especially those of you that have gotten them previously what kind of prices are you being quoted or what did you pay for the system. I've been quoted in the $40,000 range for a 4 vehicle system from what are probably the "big 2" manufacturers. That's a lot higher than I ever imagined.

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    Best way to estimate is $10,000 per bay thats whats i have heard.

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    Question

    We recieved a grant in 2004 for an Exhaust system. No particular brand, because it will go to bid. A few things to really check though: Our understanding was that FEMA wants an NFPA compliant "Total Capture System" which we've taken to mean that it must have collection hoses that follow the apparatus out to the edge of the foors and can be connected before backing in. We had a ceiling mounted system in place and still recieved the grant (we did divulge it in our narrative). The ceiling system didn't do crap and the filter had to be changed much more often than the installer said. It is also our understanding that the apparatus mounted filters (Ward Diesel type) are not considered total capture and are acctually harmful to your apparatus engines. Evidentally, even early versions of the Plymovent type hose systems were not designed for apparatus to run any amount of time while connected and the change in exhaust pressures mess with the engine. This is the case we've heard on Ward systems.
    How did we get the grant? Combination Paid/Call department with 5 personnel sleeping in the station and alot of fianancial need data. Remember not only does your grant have to benefit as many firefighters and civilians as possible, but you must show why your community can't buy it on its own.If anyone really wants our narrative give me the email address, but it may be a little late with onlt 5 days to go.


    Except for ending Slavery, Fascism, Nazism and Communism, WAR HAS NEVER SOLVED ANYTHING!

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    Default Narrative - Vehichle Exhaust System

    onebugle,

    Please email your narrative to me. Thank you in advance!
    nccfire@nccfd.net

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    NCCFIRE,

    Is the posted e-mail address correct? I tried e-mailing you a copy of the narrative, but it came back undeliverable.

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    Default nccfire@nccn.net

    Typo...It should be nccfire@nccn.net. Thanks for following up!

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    Default I need information fast

    Will someone please email me the information that is being talked abouit in this thread on diesel exhaust systems. Thank you

    FireFleitz@adelphia.net

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    Any more info on the No Smoke systems causing engine damage? We're considering such a system for many reasons, and the Ward product seems the simplest and probably smartest route for us.

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    Default Ward Diesel

    I also am interested in some information on the ward diesel damaging engines. We also wrote for an exhaust system and recieve our questions last week.

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    I also would like some information on the exhaust systems. I requested a exhaust system and received our "10" questions about a month and a half ago. I wrote our narrative specifically for the plymo-vent system. The representative for this area came to our station and measured and sent me a quote. He is now telling me that the price he quoted, which is the amount that I requested in the grant, does not include shipping or taxes. I got an estimate from Airvac911 for the ceiling mounted system and they were $27,000 cheaper. Has anyone used this system or does anyone know if this system will work as well and can I change to this type once the grant is awarded? Thanks in advance for any input.
    Last edited by hfdfiremedic32; 08-03-2005 at 03:56 PM.

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    hfd, that is something I preach in my seminars to always look for the hidden costs n your quotes and ask for them in the grant application. After the fact is too late. Lesson learned here.

    Having sleeping quarters in the station is a major considertion, as is the actual physical location of the sleeping quarters in relationship to the apparatus bay ( ie, above the bay, behind the bay). I also recommend that you take actual measurements of the levels of hydrocarbon emissions in the bay with doors closed, and open, after 5 minutes and 10 minutes with the trucks running. Then quote those figures against the OSHA /EPA recommended levels.
    Kurt Bradley
    Fire/EMS/EMA Grant Consultant
    " Never Trade Skill for Luck"

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    Here is page 20 of 2005 guidelines for those interested.Pay close attentiomn to the paragraphs # 2 and the last one which I have seperated as they contain the most pertinent information:

    Measures eligible for funding in this area are the installation of sprinkler systems, installation of vehicle exhaust extraction systems, the installation of smoke and/or fire alarm notification systems, and the installation of emergency facility generators. We will NOT fund any other requests for modifications than the initiatives listed herein.

    Any vehicle exhaust extraction system obtained should be either extensive enough to extract all toxic vapors and particulates emitted from internal combustion engines and meet all applicable Federal, State, and local standards or part of a larger comprehensive system that does.

    Some exhaust extraction systems may meet standards for removal of certain carcinogens, but not others; therefore, it may be necessary to utilize more than one system to fully protect your firefighters. The grant funds are to be used to retrofit existing structures that do not have the eligible safety features or to upgrade facilities whose features are dated. The funds may not to be used to supplement new construction. Many of these modifications may require environmental review, which may delay an award. We believe that more benefit would be derived from modifying fire stations than would be realized by modifying fire-training facilities or other fire department facilities.

    Requests involving facilities that would be open for broad usage and have a high occupancy capacity would receive a higher competitive rating than those involving facilities that have limited use and/or low occupancy capacity. The frequency of use would also have a bearing on the benefits to be derived from grant funds. The frequency and duration of a facility’s occupancy have a direct relationship to the benefits to be realized from funding in this activity. As such, facilities that are occupied or otherwise in use 24-hours-per-day, 7-days-per-week will receive a higher competitive rating than facilities used on an irregular or part-time basis.
    Kurt Bradley
    Fire/EMS/EMA Grant Consultant
    " Never Trade Skill for Luck"

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