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  1. #1
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    Arrow Size up factor from new technology

    What on this house tells the arriving company that there might be more than one occupancy in this dwelling?

    I thought it was interesting enough to pass on.

    FTM-PTB
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  2. #2
    Forum Member SpartanGuy's Avatar
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    Satellite dishes...You used to have to have two to get reception for more than one TV, or to get local channels.

    However, technology has progressed to the point that you only need one for an entire household PLUS local channels. I just recently installed a dish on my new house, and on my old one I had to have two...

    That what you were looking for Fred?

    PS: That cat looks like it's stuck behind the bars. Someone better call the ESU....
    "Captain 1 to control, retone this as a structure and notify the fire chief...."

    Safety is no accident.

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    Forum Member HeavyRescueTech's Avatar
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    two satatlie dishes for TV. if it's only one family, they can use 1 dish and two receivers. however, if you have two accounts, you need 2 dishes.
    If my basic HazMat training has taught me nothing else, it's that if you see a glowing green monkey running away from something, follow that monkey!

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    unrepentant fool ranahan's Avatar
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    And if you didn't see the two dishes, check out those two mailboxes.

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    Great thread - sometimes it is the small things that are overlooked in an initial size up that can prove crucial.
    Busy polishing the stacked tips on the deckgun of I.A.C.O.J. Engine#1

    ...and before you ask - YES I have done a Bloody SEARCH!

  6. #6
    Permanently Removed AsstEngineer292's Avatar
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    Also ther is a sticker in the highest window, may be a child in room sticker or somehting else, just my comment.

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    Good thread

    Others...

    1. # Cars in the driveway
    2. # Garbage cans on the street or beside the house.

    BUT...

    In certain areas, "stacking" is a significant problem. Stacking involves taking a SFD and whacking it up into a SRO. I do not want to atart a race war here, but this problem is particularly acute in hispanic and asian populations.

    I have investigated fires where such extreme conditions as two sets of bunk beds in the kitchen and the residents sleeping in shifts were found.

    During primary search, if you see conditions like padlocks on the bedroom doors, refrigerators with padlocks (unless its Kirstie Alley's house) and other forms of privacy assurances, you may have stacking problems. These SRO's will often extend into attics (even if they are not converted to living spaces) and basements.

  8. #8
    Forum Member DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
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    Originally posted by GeorgeWendtCFI
    Good thread

    Others...

    1. # Cars in the driveway
    2. # Garbage cans on the street or beside the house.

    BUT...

    In certain areas, "stacking" is a significant problem. Stacking involves taking a SFD and whacking it up into a SRO. I do not want to atart a race war here, but this problem is particularly acute in hispanic and asian populations.

    I have investigated fires where such extreme conditions as two sets of bunk beds in the kitchen and the residents sleeping in shifts were found.

    During primary search, if you see conditions like padlocks on the bedroom doors, refrigerators with padlocks (unless its Kirstie Alley's house) and other forms of privacy assurances, you may have stacking problems. These SRO's will often extend into attics (even if they are not converted to living spaces) and basements.
    George is 100% correct. We have done a few "task force" inspections with the PD, Building Department and Board of Health on this very issue. A lot of this happens with absentee landlords, who don't give a hoot about what's going on on their property as long as the rent checks keep coming in.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
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  9. #9
    Forum Member SpartanGuy's Avatar
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    Default Similar, but different

    George, Gonzo:


    We used to have similar problems with people staying where they weren't supposed to, but not in any sort of residence chocked full of the entire clan from Vietnam. Our problem was certain groups of shop owners(I'm not going to opine as to which group) liked to convert areas in the backs of their quickie marts and dollar stores into living areas without informing anyone.

    We encountered a fire in a dollar store on a Sunday night at roughly 9:30, so we didn't expect any occupancy. First in hose team found a male halfway out of the store passed out on the floor, coming from his little living area in the back... We now do random and unannounced fire inspections on some of these 'problem' properties.

    Just something to watch for
    "Captain 1 to control, retone this as a structure and notify the fire chief...."

    Safety is no accident.

  10. #10
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    Legally if these occupancies are not MDs...As in a duplex or two family residence... and everyone is related. OR you can't prove they aren't. Then you can't really do much as most codes I know of only regulate Multiple Dwellings as far as how many "unrelated" residents can live in a building.

    There are certain cultures and societies where it is common for all the family (extended) to live together under the same roof. Some Hispanics, West Indians, Vietnamese, Jews and many others where they all live in the same house because of tradition/ecconomics.

    Also you have to understand the reality that some of these people who are often far below the poverty line are doing jobs and tasks that you wouldn't do otherwise there wouldn't be a demand. The cities need these workers to build new houses, landscape your nice neighborhoods work in new resturants and clean office buildings...etc. They need a place to live that they can afford...otherwise they will be on the streets and living in vaccants which causes many more problems.

    Now and SRO is one issue in itself...however if they are related there is little you can do to keep them from living together in a private dwelling.

    FTM-PTB

  11. #11
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  12. #12
    Forum Member Squad1LT's Avatar
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    The two mailboxes is the main give away that there are multiple occupancies in the house. The two satelitte dishes are also another probable indicator. Knowing your response territory is the main factor of knowing if it has multiple occupancies. In my city in the inner city portion. Most if not all 2 1/2 houses will be cut up into multiple apartments or have a larger number of occupants if it isn't cut up, So that is my initial assumption pulling up at a house like that.

  13. #13
    MembersZone Subscriber ullrichk's Avatar
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    Originally posted by FFFRED

    Now and SRO is one issue in itself...however if they are related there is little you can do to keep them from living together in a private dwelling.

    FTM-PTB
    I ran into some trouble with the "unrelated persons" part of a municipal code several years back.

    Apparently an AG had given an opinion that these laws would be discriminatory if it could be shown that they had an impact on certain groups of individuals. The case in question was an attempt by a municipality to restrict (through zoning) halfway houses for mentally handicapped citizens, but it wouldn't be much of a stretch to show adverse impact on hispanics, asians, etc., depending on where you are or how the law was applied/enforced.

    I don't know if there have been any developments in the matter since I'm not involved in zoning any more, but it's an interesting perspective.
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  14. #14
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    I interpreted this thread as being a fire suppression issue, but it is equally a code enforcement issue.

    You guys are right about the legal issues. They are sometimes more complex than we are prepared for. For example, I had a fire in a certain type of restaurant that specializes in serving feline. Good fire, arson job (someone fired a molotov through the front window at 0400). Search of the two floors above the restaurant showed what used to be about 6 apts. All of the doors had been taken off the hinges and there were about 30 people living up there. They were all employees of the restaurant.

    Also correct is that there are social issues involved. We could go to the off-duty forum and discuss these social issues until we get the thread closed. But the reality is that we rescue people whether they are poor or rich, legal or illegal. However, as a fire service, we cannot and should not condone or endorse the circumvention of codes that are in place to insure life safety.

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