1. #1
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    Default What PPE precautions would you take???

    your fire dept is paged and told to respond to someone at home who is not breathing and not responding. when you arrive you walk into the house and the smell hits you. From the look and smell the person has been down for atleast 4-6 days. What PPE would you wear to bag the body? I am interested to see what body substance isolation you would use.

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    None.

    The ME / AME will take care of the body bag. We'll let them deal with it.
    Quote Originally Posted by ThNozzleMan
    Why? Because we are firemen. We are decent human beings. We would be compelled by the overwhelming impulse to save an innocent child from a tragic, painful death because in the end, we are MEN.

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    I thought you might say that. the medical examiner stayed on scene for about 5 minutes. the ambulance had returned back to the hospital and told us to call when the ME was done. a Paramedic and an EMT-I show up when we call back the EMT-I could not help as she was nearly ill with the smell. now what should happen? I had to help the paramedic bag the body as others did not want to do it.

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    Well, this is what has happened in the past with a case like this..

    Tyvec painters suit with SCBA. Works great.

    Edit: The spelling police are after me
    Last edited by Res343cue; 03-14-2005 at 03:23 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by ThNozzleMan
    Why? Because we are firemen. We are decent human beings. We would be compelled by the overwhelming impulse to save an innocent child from a tragic, painful death because in the end, we are MEN.

    I A C O J
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    Honorary Disclaimer: While I am a manufacturer representative, I am not here to sell my product. Any advice or knowledge shared is for informational purposes only. I do not use Firehouse.Com for promotional purposes.

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    OK since i have been waiting for turnout gear for over a year seems we do not have the money to get any and we keep getting grant applications rejected my PPE consisted of jeans, jacket and 2 pairs of latex free medical gloves doubled up. no heppa mask or SCBA. To make matters worse i ended up with blood and body fluids on my jacket.

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    As far as I know, the ME is responsible here. But for the most part, if it is an obvious death, there shouldn't be any reason to be touching the body, so PPE shouldn't really be needed.

    Also, in any situation involving a db, it should be handled as a crime scene. The body should not be moved until it is documented (via pictures taken by the ME's office or PD).
    -Bozz

    Air Force Medic

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    As i said the ME was on scene for all of 5 minutes took some pictures decided there was no foul play involved and informed us the body could be transported to the morgue.

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    I always thought it was the ME's job to do that...
    -Bozz

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    I also always thought it was the ME's job too. My main concern is getting in contact with bodily fluids and having no protection whatsoever. I keep asking at every meeting when we should be getting turnout gear and keep getting the same reply. I was going to buy my own but as all my money is tied up in going to school to become a Paramedic that is not an option. I also tried to find a company that will let me buy this stuff on credit but it seems the only finance available is to government agencies and not to individual members of a department. has anyone got any ideas?

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    In NJ, the ME would release that body and it would be up to the family to secure the services of a funeral home for transportation.

    Despite what the ME said, why would you put a quite completely dead body in an ambulance?

    BTW, it may be suggested to put two good gobs of Vicks Vapo-rub under your nostrils to kill the smell. Don't. It only absorbs the smell and it will be with you longer. I have been on the scene of a bunch of decomps. Nothing short of an SCBA will protect you from the smell. Better off to man-up and just deal with it.

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    WE do not "Bag Bodies" WE may provide SCBA for the cops to use to investigate and assist them by ventilating the house with fans.... In fact....We have done that before!
    09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
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    Originally posted by captstanm1
    WE do not "Bag Bodies" WE may provide SCBA for the cops to use to investigate and assist them by ventilating the house with fans.... In fact....We have done that before!
    Thats how we do it
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    Default In our area...

    Technically, the job belongs to the funeral home or DFS (State Forensic Science) if there was any need for further investigation.

    Real world, the funeral home crew is likely to consist of one or two guys so we end up helping. In that case, SCBA all the way.

    Knock on wood, but we haven't had one of these in years....

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    Originally posted by pengman
    I also always thought it was the ME's job too. My main concern is getting in contact with bodily fluids and having no protection whatsoever. I keep asking at every meeting when we should be getting turnout gear and keep getting the same reply. I was going to buy my own but as all my money is tied up in going to school to become a Paramedic that is not an option. I also tried to find a company that will let me buy this stuff on credit but it seems the only finance available is to government agencies and not to individual members of a department. has anyone got any ideas?
    Sounds like your not getting any support from your agency. Do any of your members feel the same way? If so, and this may not be popular, but next time dont do it. You shouldnt have to perform any task with out proper PPE. And Im sure you would get support from OSHA if it has to go that far to make your point.
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    Originally posted by pengman
    OK since i have been waiting for turnout gear for over a year seems we do not have the money to get any and we keep getting grant applications rejected my PPE consisted of jeans, jacket and 2 pairs of latex free medical gloves doubled up. no heppa mask or SCBA. To make matters worse i ended up with blood and body fluids on my jacket.
    ARE YOU FOR REAL??? SIMPLE SOLUTION FOR YOU - REFUSE TO RENDER THE SERVICE UNTIL OUTFITTED WITH APPROPRIATE GEAR! IT IS A BASIC IN ALL LABOUR CODES THAT THE EMPLOYER PROVIDE - HERES THE IRONIC PART - SAFE WORK ENVIRONMENT AND OR THE EQUIPMENT TO WORK SAFELY. STEP AWAY AND GET THE PROPER GEAR - THIS IS MUNDANE B.S. STAND UP FOR YOUR RIGHTS TO BE SAFE AT YOUR JOB - AND IF YOUR A VOLUNTEER - IT IS STILL NO EXCUSE, EVEN MORE SO!

    Rant off!
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    Ooops forgot to add - body removal is the ME's job, suggest you make them do it - that or stock up on vicks vapo rub to smear in your nose!
    -I have learned people will forget what you said,
    -People will forget what you did,
    -But people will never forget how you made them feel!

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    Well, if they're dead they're dead. Nothing I"m doing for 'em. I would probably take a quick look and then get the heck out. Now if we ended up having to help (i.e, extraordinarly obese person, etc), I probably still wouldn't...at least no more than my usual goggles and gloves. I'm not saying that's right, but it's probably the ttruth.
    "The more we sweat in training, the less we bleed in battle."

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    [i]
    I have been on the scene of a bunch of decomps. Nothing short of an SCBA will protect you from the smell. Better off to man-up and just deal with it. [/B]
    Ha ha, and then it'll still hit you when you pull off the pack!!!!
    "The more we sweat in training, the less we bleed in battle."

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    Soooooooooooo that's why we bought the tyvek coveralls.

    Yhe way it's done varies around here, somehow we end up helping with the removal process. Thankfully we've never had any that bad!
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    In my neck of the woods, TLC, a company that has a wheel chair van division and an ALS ambulance division also has "stiff taxi" division which picks up the bodies of this nature. They use an unmarked ambulance for this. It's their problem if they can't stand the smell, not ours.
    Chris Shields
    Lieutenant / EMT
    Haz-Mat Technician
    East Syracuse Fire Dept
    Onondaga County, NY

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    As soon as the ME is there, I'd be gone. Better yet around here, if it's a DAS or DOA or whatever you wanna call it PD is called for. As soon as PD gets there, we give them a report and we leave.
    NREMT-P\ Reserve Volunteer Firefighter\Reserve Police Officer
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    Unhappy ppe

    in my community the yellow canarys(PD)are always on scene first! they would already have made an acessment and treat it as a crime scene until otherwise determined. the med ex. would do removal. if i had to ? ty-vek suit and booties,double gloves(nitril)eye shield,cartridge resperator. would do topside body rap/roll and then bag,hoping the body doesn't come apart. had the misfortune of bagging a burned beyond rec. it's hard to discribe! i hope never again!!!!!

    helping people,
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    capt.Dennis

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