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  1. #21
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    Just out of curiousity, if you're going 100' tower, aren't you already at the largest motor and tranny available on the chassis? That used to be the easy part of aerials, you spec 500HP Detroit and 5000 series Allison, and now 515HP on most manufacturers. Unless I missed something, adding a pump wouldn't change that since you can't increase those two past that anyway. We didn't even think to go 500HP when the 515HP came out, and we're in the flatlands. I can't imagine dropping below 500HP in an area with hills.

    We hit on the same cons, but they were kinda simple to de-con (pro-pro?) in our case
    1) We got a full ISO ladder complement on ours, replacing the 45' with a 35' as allowed in ISO equivalency charts, since we wanted a 400 gallon tank instead of the 300 or smaller. If you're a fully hydranted area we're not), don't need more than 200-300 gallons on board in which case you can squeeze a 45' on. 45' is a lot of ground ladder and too manpower intensive, and we don't have any spots where we can't get the truck that we'd even need the 35' let alone the extra 10'.
    2) 5 minutes after getting on scene, with or without being anchored to a hydrant directly, you're going to have to move pumpers, chief's cars, cop cars, etc, and disconnect hoses to relocate the aerial anyway.
    3) If the pump doesn't pump, spec a valve on the waterway so that it can still be supplied by another pumper independent on the on board pump. Water pump doesn't impact truck company ops, the stick still goes up and down.
    4) See above
    5) 6 on aerials, pump or not. Less overall fires and less multi-alarm fires make this dang near impossible to sell to the check writers. I don't know of any career depts running more than 4 offhand. Further proof of better marketing needed in the fire service, the public is too ignorant of how fireground ops are supposed to work.


  2. #22
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    Question

    Well taking those I take exception to in order:
    1. No spots for a 35'. How many aerials does the truck have. I'll bet even yours can't be in two places at once. Our old Maxim tried by going around corners.
    2.I don't know how you operate but we do not shut down hose line operations to move our aerial. It's kinda hard to pull ffer's from the building to shutdown. I didn't just mean anchor the quint to a hydrant, how about a line going inside?
    3. If the pump doesn't pump you've got to get it fixed. If the aerial has to leave town for pump work, you've got no aerial. More stuff to break = more that will break. The pump does affect truck co. ops the minute someone pulls a line.
    4. While we did opt for a larger motr thatn the minimum, we've been given many options for both motor and tranny, with a pump the options were few.
    5. Great go ahead and prove to the bean counters you can do more with less. Every day we take cuts and staffing shortages and still do the job, being the ingenious folks we are we get it done. Next thing you know you'll have a snow plow on the front. A truck is a truck. Some departments may benefits from quints, but it is rare to see them successful unless they can decide which type of ops their going to do and stick with them. And of course train on true truck co. stuff, as well as engine work, RIT, Haz-Mat, extrications and EMS duties. The more we become Jack of all trades, the more we become Masters of none.

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  3. #23
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    Originally posted by RFDACM
    We've been developing our specs for a new tower. As a rule I've been a strict Truck is a Truck man. Here are some of the reasons:
    Quint Cons:
    1. Cannot carry full ground ladder and truck co. tools without being huge.
    2. Once a hose has been strectched it anchored there, which takes away the ability to re-position the aerial.
    3. If you have a pump problem your out an aerial and vice versa.
    4. Bigger motor and transmission needed = $$$
    5. Inadequate staff to do both operations.
    1. Incorrect. We have full NFPA ladders (including a 35')and tools
    on our quint, which is less then 40' OAL.

    2. If you spot the rig corecttly in the first place, this isnt an
    issue.

    3. OK, I'll give you that one.

    4. Really dont see why. A truck, quint or not, should have the
    biggest motor/trans anyway.

    5. Huh? If you have 4 FF's on your quint and you need it as an
    engine co., you have a 4 FF engine co. If you have 4 FF's and
    you use it as a truck co., you have a 4 FF truck co. Just
    because a quint can do both, doesnt mean you try and do both at
    the same time. Its one or the other.
    Last edited by Dave1983; 04-04-2005 at 07:20 PM.
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  4. #24
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    Curious on one thing though....what about the small to midsize community that was a sleepy little farming community that has begun to see urban sprawl, growing with alot of residential two/three stroy homes and unsure how to handle it with little manpower? It seems as though there is a bit of a trend for departments that never owned an aerial at all, now wanting a pumper with "ladder" capabilites. This is usually due to manpwer shortages of the timely second unit or aerial response. This may be a regional thing, but there seems to be alot of people tryign top accomplish this of late.

    The minimal wishes we see a bunch lately in our area is and a thumbnail below of one:

    6 person cab
    525 hp
    med cabinet inside crew area
    85' three section
    2000 pump
    frt bumper hydraulic and electric reels
    three 250' xlays
    rear "suction" with 2 rear slide in 6" x 15' suctions hose
    1200' of 5"
    500' of 2.5"
    1000' of 1" forestry hose on a reel
    145' of ground ladders
    800 water (yes 800)
    50 foam
    two positon aerial and monitor controls
    air and 120 power to the tip
    lots of compartmentation

    Does this make any sense or can someone explain to me the downsides? Yes, I am trying to learn from this question, not promoting or selling a darn thing. Just curious of anyones experience with something like this? Please share.

    Stay safe and good luck.

    GUY
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  5. #25
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    Default same thing but mid mount

    although, personally, I am not a big midmount fan, here is the same thing, same specs, 85', 800 water, 135 ish ground ladders, 50 foam, 2000 pump, yada yada...it "seems" to make a little sense for that smaller ruralish department that cannot ensure timely responses. Does this have any validity or is it totally crazy?

    I am trying to be humble and learn a little from you "quint guys"...

    Thanks in advance for the insight.

    Stay safe and good luck.

    GUY.
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  6. #26
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    Originally posted by FYRTRUCKGUY2
    Curious on one thing though....what about the small to midsize community that was a sleepy little farming community that has begun to see urban sprawl, growing with alot of residential two/three stroy homes and unsure how to handle it with little manpower? It seems as though there is a bit of a trend for departments that never owned an aerial at all, now wanting a pumper with "ladder" capabilites. This is usually due to manpwer shortages of the timely second unit or aerial response. This may be a regional thing, but there seems to be alot of people tryign top accomplish this of late.
    There is definitely a trend toward deployment of aerial apparatus in places that never considered them before, and I doubt that's just regional. If I looked back 20 years in West Central Berks, I'd have seen 18 volunteer fire companies with a total aerial complement of (1) snorkel, (1) ladder-quint and (1) telesquirt. Today (after some consolidations), I see the same area covered by 14 fire companies/departments, most volunteer and a few combo, with a total aerial complement of (2) ladder-quints, (1) ladder-quad, (1) tower/ladder-quint, (1) tower/ladder and (1) telesquirt. At the same time, the number of engines in that same area has dropped from 29 to 23, and one or two more may go soon.


    Originally posted by FYRTRUCKGUY2
    The minimal wishes we see a bunch lately in our area is and a thumbnail below of one:

    6 person cab
    525 hp
    med cabinet inside crew area
    85' three section
    2000 pump
    frt bumper hydraulic and electric reels
    three 250' xlays
    rear "suction" with 2 rear slide in 6" x 15' suctions hose
    1200' of 5"
    500' of 2.5"
    1000' of 1" forestry hose on a reel
    145' of ground ladders
    800 water (yes 800)
    50 foam
    two positon aerial and monitor controls
    air and 120 power to the tip
    lots of compartmentation

    Does this make any sense or can someone explain to me the downsides? Yes, I am trying to learn from this question, not promoting or selling a darn thing. Just curious of anyones experience with something like this? Please share.
    Although I run with an engine/tanker company now, I was with a truck company for years and I helped spec the ladder-quad listed above. In general, as I said in a post earlier in this thread, the best-utilized quints & quads are those that are trucks first and engines only in a pinch. I'd also add that they are not "over-spec'ed" in the sense that the companies don't try to do too much with them. A lot of the things on your list look just fine to me, but here are some thoughts on the others:

    Hard suction hose - I'm not a fan of setting up quints to draft. Whatever they are, they are either trucks or attack engines, but not supply pieces. My feeling has always been this...if you don't set the aerial up to draft, nobody is tempted to send it to a dry hydrant or a pond where it doesn't belong anyway. The only way I would put hard sleeve on a quint is if I covered an area where buildings comonly have dry hydrants on cisterns for fire department use. Otherwise, nada.

    800 water/50 foam - If this is class B foam, my question is, "Why?" Unless the budget is incredibly tight, find an engine (or even a tanker) that you can set up for class B foam operations. Remember...if you're really going to use this quint as a multifunction piece, then you can have a one or two man engine coming behind it to set up a water supply. That engine can carry less conventional tools and more specialized equipment, such as foam, now that you have the quint. If this is CAFS, then my question is, "Why so much water?" I love the idea of a CAFS quint...with a 250 gal water tank, a 10 gal. Class A foam tank, and a CAFS system, you're in business with the typical residential structure fire. And, you'll have bought yourself space for ladders, deeper compartments, or something else by getting rid of some of that water.

    1000' of forestry hose - this isn't a brush truck, and you shouldn't use it as one. Sorry, but this is a classic example of over-spec'ing, unless I'm missing something.

    med cabinet - please, please, please run a brush, a car, an engine, a tanker...anything but a $500K quint for QRS. With all due respect to the folks who think every unit designation starts with "medic" (e.g. "medic-engine," "medic-tower," etc.) that's the most insane thing I've ever heard of.

    Rear suction - make that a rear direct intake to the ladder, not the pump, and you've got yourself a deal. Set up the aerial so it can be supplied either through the pump or externally by an engine. You'll thank me later.

    That's about it. Hope this helps.
    Last edited by bobsnyder; 04-05-2005 at 12:23 PM.

  7. #27
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    [QUOTE]. Incorrect. We have full NFPA ladders (including a 35')and tools
    on our quint, which is less then 40' OAL.

    2. If you spot the rig corecttly in the first place, this isnt an
    issue.

    3. OK, I'll give you that one.

    4. Really dont see why. A truck, quint or not, should have the
    biggest motor/trans anyway.

    5. Huh? If you have 4 FF's on your quint and you need it as an
    engine co., you have a 4 FF engine co. If you have 4 FF's and
    you use it as a truck co., you have a 4 FF truck co. Just
    because a quint can do both, doesnt mean you try and do both at
    the same time. Its one or the other.

    Lets see:

    1. NFPA ladder compliment is 117' now right? Certainly not what I'd consider a Truck Co. compliment. Sure it meets but how about having enough tools in the chest to actually do the job? NFPA is a minimum requirement, actually ISO requires more.
    2. If you spot the truck correctly every time, how do you limit firefighters from appearing at windows too far away? How about potential victims. Did you park it correctly for Engine Ops or did you atleast place it for Truck Ops and stretch hoses? Did you spot it for a rescue and then later need a vent? Too many variables to spot perfectly everytime. matbe you have enough aerials or mutaul aid co.s to not have to worry about this. We don't.
    3. O.K.
    4. All comes down to dollars and sense. Why go smaller with motor? Personnaly, I agree but when its making the price cut into critical equipment you have to cut where theres fat.
    5. Exactly my point, only enough to do one function and even then how well? Are the firefighters assigned to the quint as good at Engine Ops as true engineonly personnel, how about truck ops. In a time when most would agree good Truck work is lacking we should focus on that task not the Jack of all, master of none. How much time does a paramedic riding a quint in a dept. that does Haz-mat, tech. rescue and extrication get to work on true Truck Co. work?

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  8. #28
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    Question

    FYRTRUCKGUY2:

    Why are you not a big fan of mid-mounts? I'm interested because we could not find any tactical benefit from a rear-mounts. In fact all issue we found with the MM's were training issues. Unless you have station length issues but not height problems.



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  9. #29
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    Originally posted by RFDACM
    Exactly my point, only enough to do one function and even then how well? Are the firefighters assigned to the quint as good at Engine Ops as true engine only personnel, how about truck ops...How much time does a paramedic riding a quint in a dept. that does Haz-mat, tech. rescue and extrication get to work on true Truck Co. work?
    Overall, this is a major issue when choosing to use or not to use a quint in the career/combo world, but it's barely a passing consideration in most of the volunteer world. In most volly fire companies (not all...note I didn't say "all"), everyone who possibly can be trained will be cross-trained on whatever functions that volly station performs, staffing is a variable, and the exact complement of apparatus making it to the scene, as well as the order they arrive, are all variables, too. Nobody is strictly assigned to anything in these environments until they show up, roll out the door and get their assignments on route from the IC, and how good they are at whatever they get assigned to is a function of the company's training program and their level of participation in it, not what rig they are on at the time. In this kind of environment, why not have multifunction apparatus available to you, especially when you don't really know whether that dispatch for three engines, a truck and a rescue will really get you those five rigs, or just two or three of them at any given time?? (or whatever, pick your specific example...the situation is the same no matter how big or small you make the assignment)

    Originally posted by RFDACM
    In a time when most would agree good Truck work is lacking we should focus on that task not the Jack of all, master of none.
    This I agree with wholeheartedly, no matter what the type of department, although it's probably a bigger problem in the volly world than the paid world. Even so, the choice of a quint or a pure aerial isn't going to make or break truck ops training in most volly departments, because of the reasons I mentioned above.

    I really think that the issue of the use of quints and quads is an entirely different discussion in the career world than in the volunteer world. While the two can certainly learn from each other, some key elements, such as staffing, work so differently in practice that it's really impossible to get apples-to-apples comparisons between the two on this issue. This isn't an attempt to get a volly-career debate going, it's just a reality of the differences between these two settings, at least in my experience.

  10. #30
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    I think Guy's ideas overall have merit, but again - what works for one department will certainly not work for another. In my department's case, a quint with 800 gallons of water could be overkill, but our neighboring district, if minimally staffed, could do a lot of damage with a quint with that kind of water, where much of their district could use an aerial on some of the enormous homes they cover, and virtually the entire area is without hydrants.

    It goes to the 55 foot aerial argument on the list elsewhere. FINE. It won't work for you, but don't tell someone else what will work for them. But I digress, Guy was looking for comments and ideas.

    Reduce the tank size to 400-500 for us, minimal complement of ground ladders is fine, ditch the forestry line, and we could use a quint as a first out engine at one of our stations. We've had a truck (R.I.P.), and with our staffing (volunteer) challenges, it rarely got out the door due to limited folks trained on it, it was a truck with only a pump (no hose, tank) so it was never a useful first out piece, etc. Of course training is another argument, but when you make your first out piece carry that aerial to every fire, I suspect it will be placed correctly on a regular basis, the main will get up more often, and it will fit our needs better than a conventional dry truck. That station also runs a squad with extrication equipment, so that would be even less that would have to stuffed into a quint. Our response area really doesn't dictate the truck ops that say a city like Boston or Chicago does, where loads of ground ladders are a way of life. We just don't have the buildings that require that style of operation, and I'll be darned if we build a quint for someone else's needs a district or two over.

    The large city nearby runs three quints as engines in their first due stills, trucks or engines where they're second due, and seems to do okay with it. This is in addition to two "straight" trucks, and eight engines. Staffing is five per quint, so they aren't stripped, but they can hardly perform both functions. My argument against them is that they run everything for that station - service calls, medical runs, etc. They are tearing the heck out of 105' quints doing this stuff daily. I'll bet every week you hear of requests for maintenance due to another tire failing (they eat tires on the rear end). Ladder tenders would work wonders here, or even light squads with two guys jumping off of the quint for med runs.

    You know though, I drove by a quint just yesterday coming back from lunch dealing with a grass fire on a bike path, under a bridge. I bet those guys would have given anything for that 1000' of forestry line.

  11. #31
    Forum Member Dave1983's Avatar
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    1. NFPA ladder compliment is 117' now right? Certainly not what I'd consider a Truck Co. compliment. Sure it meets but how about having enough tools in the chest to actually do the job? NFPA is a minimum requirement, actually ISO requires more.
    How many ground ladders do you really need on one rig? And why cant you include the ground ladders you have on the engines that are on scene? We get a quint and 3 engines on first alarm. Thats over 250' of ground ladders on scene. Sounds like plenty too me.


    2. If you spot the truck correctly every time, how do you limit firefighters from appearing at windows too far away? How about potential victims.
    If its spotted correctly, this shouldnt be an issue. Unless your talking a hi-rise and if so I would hope you have more then one aerial on scene. If your talking a two story house, ground ladders should take care of all the windows so firefighters can use these. That is why we carry so many, right?

    How about potential victims.
    See above.

    Did you park it correctly for Engine Ops or did you atleast place it for Truck Ops and stretch hoses?
    A quint is a truck first, regardless if it happens too be first in and you pull an attack line off. Spotting should be as for a truck.

    Did you spot it for a rescue and then later need a vent?
    Again, on most 2 story houses, you are going to be able to do an aerial rescue from the front, which is most likely the same place you would set up for roof vent. On a hi-rise, you dont need to do roof vent, so its not an issue.

    4. All comes down to dollars and sense. Why go smaller with motor? Personnaly, I agree but when its making the price cut into critical equipment you have to cut where theres fat.
    In no way do I consider the engine/transmission to be budget "fat".

    Exactly my point, only enough to do one function and even then how well? Are the firefighters assigned to the quint as good at Engine Ops as true engineonly personnel, how about truck ops. In a time when most would agree good Truck work is lacking we should focus on that task not the Jack of all, master of none. How much time does a paramedic riding a quint in a dept. that does Haz-mat, tech. rescue and extrication get to work on true Truck Co. work?
    They are here. I see this argument all the time and with all do respect, dont get. Perhaps its that I have always worked in a department were everyone is crossed trained, in a county were all departments do the same. Its the way we do it here. Every FF is expected to be proficiant at truck and engine co opps. We train A LOT.

    Last shift, I was ridding jumpseat on the truck. This shift, Im back at more normal position driving the engine. Next shift, I could easily be sent to the squad. Its the norm here. We dont have any of the "I got sent to the truck when I got hired and 15 years later Im still a truckie". Doesnt work that way here. And Im talking county wide (62 stations). Oh, and thats paid stations in a densly populated, urban area. So lets drop the "quints only work for volly or small rural departments" argument.

    Please understand, Im not busting on how anybody operates. Im just responding to more of the constant negatives I read here about quints. Its always the same. Consider that all the negatives you bring up about quints, I can bring up about straight ladders. A straight ladder makes absolutly no sense to me. Again, its probably because I come from an all quint county and after 22 years, its all I know.
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  12. #32
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    Default Clarification

    FIRST- Awesome comments by all! Thank you. Very productive and open minded coorespondance here....I am appreciative to all.

    To clarify the "ruralish" aerial / quint description I there out. I must agree whole heartedly with npfd801, no departments have mirrored oprating conditions and/or SOP's, so the configuration is no a solve all, nationwide solution.

    Couple clarifications. For those who do not know our area, it is very "hilly" (to flatlanders, it would be "mountainous" - LOL!) as have significant valleys that form and area called the Fingers Lakes region. The lakes vary from 20-50 miles long and pose a significant issue. The lake banks are incredibly steep and narrow onalmost all the finger lakes that span accross a vast majority of the central part of the state. What has happened, is that vinyards, and lake properies have exploded. Where the majority of these previously had summer "camps", we find people wrecking or burning them to put up 3-15,000 sq. ft. homes on these remote roads with limited access. the inhabitance of the rural wooded areas alone. creates lots of woods fires, hence the forestry reels going on almost every truck, along a lake, as it is easy to deploy and easy to pickup. It is alos a heck of alot easy to use on some long lays, that sometimes can be 500ish feet! So, that item is kind of particualr to our geography.

    The foam is paralleled to the forestry lines, 1.75" lines and is used in Class A application only. The 50 gallons is strictly Class A, no B foam at all.

    The overall intent is kind of two fold. One is a secondary engine during concurrent multiple calls. The quint being first out on second calls, when the primary engine is out on the first run (hence the 800 water, as a first out engine on second calls, or if the engine is OOS). The second scenario is ladder operations on big stuff, doing ventilation, elevated master stream, etc.

    I do not know if we are trying to put too much crap in one piece, but it seems to be the wave here of late. One thing that is nice though, these units are remaing in control size wise, for instance the OAL of the midmount is 41ish' with a 235 WB", not bad for whats on it.

    So, maybe its a "if it works for you thing", but your comments make a bunch of sense, are helpful, insightful and more important, appreciated.

    Stay safe and good luck.

    GUY

    PS---- I could not agree more on the "suction hose" on a ladder thing!!! YIKES! Next it will be a ladder/quint tanker with side and rear Newton dumps valves, cab controlled of course!

  13. #33
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    PS---- I could not agree more on the "suction hose" on a ladder thing!!! YIKES! Next it will be a ladder/quint tanker with side and rear Newton dumps valves, cab controlled of course!
    With ground sweep nozzles, a light tower and an SCBA refill system
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  14. #34
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    Originally posted by Dave1983


    With ground sweep nozzles, a light tower and an SCBA refill system
    Starting to sound like a LHS special.


  15. #35
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    Default Re: Clarification

    Originally posted by FYRTRUCKGUY2
    PS---- I could not agree more on the "suction hose" on a ladder thing!!! YIKES! Next it will be a ladder/quint tanker with side and rear Newton dumps valves, cab controlled of course!
    I disagree. If you plan on even INFREQUENTLY pulling a handline, especially in a rural area, equip the truck so that it could draft from portable dump tanks if you ever need to.

    Obviously it would be silly to plan on sending the only ladder in an area to a draft site, dry hydrant, cistern, etc IF there are better options.

    However, if you're running mutual aid and your quint has the biggest pump on it (and there is another ladder responding), it might make sense to at least CONSIDER the option of placing the biggest pump at the water source, especially on a long lay.

    Suction hose isn't ungodly expensive, it can be thrown up and out of the way, so I say, "WHY NOT?" We don't always need dedicated vehicles for every task. Some departments might, but not all do.
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    Default Re: Clarification

    Originally posted by FYRTRUCKGUY2
    Couple clarifications. For those who do not know our area, it is very "hilly" (to flatlanders, it would be "mountainous" - LOL!) as have significant valleys that form and area called the Fingers Lakes region. The lakes vary from 20-50 miles long and pose a significant issue. The lake banks are incredibly steep and narrow onalmost all the finger lakes that span accross a vast majority of the central part of the state. What has happened, is that vinyards, and lake properies have exploded. Where the majority of these previously had summer "camps", we find people wrecking or burning them to put up 3-15,000 sq. ft. homes on these remote roads with limited access.
    Your area has some very unique features, but most of your issues are similar to issues we face.

    Originally posted by FYRTRUCKGUY2
    The inhabitance of the rural wooded areas alone. creates lots of woods fires, hence the forestry reels going on almost every truck, along a lake, as it is easy to deploy and easy to pickup. It is alos a heck of alot easy to use on some long lays, that sometimes can be 500ish feet! So, that item is kind of particualr to our geography.

    The foam is paralleled to the forestry lines, 1.75" lines and is used in Class A application only. The 50 gallons is strictly Class A, no B foam at all.
    I still don't know if I'd do the forestry hose thing on a quint, but now I understand why you would be seriously considering it. However, if you're setting this up as a CAFS rig, with the intent of using compressed air foam for both the wildland and structural attack modes, this will significantly reduce the amount of water you need on board.

    Originally posted by FYRTRUCKGUY2
    I do not know if we are trying to put too much crap in one piece, but it seems to be the wave here of late.
    That doesn't mean you have to give in to temptation. The winner isn't the one with the biggest, shiniest rig (although lots of people think that's the way it works); it's the one who can efficiently and effectively rescue the victims and extinguish the fire.

    Originally posted by FYRTRUCKGUY2
    One thing that is nice though, these units are remaing in control size wise, for instance the OAL of the midmount is 41ish' with a 235 WB", not bad for whats on it.
    Actually, in the kind of area you have you would probably be better off with a mid-mount. If you're talking long lanes, you're also talking about situations where you may not have much choice on placement. In that case, a mid-mount gives you more flexibility in how you use the aerial device, especially if you're stuck in a situation where the only access you have leaves you nose-to-the-fire.

    Originally posted by FYRTRUCKGUY2
    I could not agree more on the "suction hose" on a ladder thing!!! YIKES! Next it will be a ladder/quint tanker with side and rear Newton dumps valves, cab controlled of course!
    They're out there. Fallon-Churchill in Nevada custom designed a fleet of quint-tanker-rescue-etc combo rigs to get their ISO Class 1 rating. I think it's a bit excessive (or obsessive, I'm not sure which), but to each their own, I guess. I stand by my earlier position...no suction hose on quints.

  17. #37
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    My definition of quints in most large departments is simply:

    Quints: Manpower limiting devices used by weak fire department administrators to please their political handlers by reducing manpower and decreasing budgets at the expense of the personnel on the rigs.

    Both my career and volunteer departments have them. In my career department they (All 3 of them out of 36) are used as a Truck Co. In my volunteer department they (We have 2) are used depending on how they arrive on the scene and they perform the functions of one or the other, not both.

    Things to remember about quint apparatus:

    1) Quints are designed and built to perform 2 functions on the fireground simultaniously. They can only do this if staffed correctly. The MINIMUM staffing needed to perfrom even the most basic engine and truck work, at the same time, is 8:

    1 - Pump Operator
    1 - Officer
    1 - FF for the line (Nozzle)
    1 - FF for the line (Back-up)
    1 - FF for Forcible Entry/Ventilation
    1 - FF for Forcible Entry/Ventialtion
    1 - FF for Search
    1 - FF for Search

    And this only allows the basic bases to be covered. How many departments have this staffing? Few if any.

    2) Spot it as a Truck Co. for the aerial everytime. You can stretch hose, but not the main aerial.

    3) If you use reverse lays, remember not to send your quint to the plug with the line or else your aerial is going to be tied to the plug for the duration.

    4) Someone mentioned that the 117' of ground ladders was inadequate. Actually its 88' for a quint to meet NFPA. Even more pathetic.

    5) If you buy one, run it as a Truck Co. that is capable of generating its own water supply for its master streams or run it as an Engine Co. that has its own aerial master stream, not both.

    6) Ever laid a LDH supply line with a quint around a corner? LOL. Avoid it if possible unless you have spare parts readily available in your station or a side stacker body which means no compartment space.

    Just my thoughts.

    Stay low and move it in.
    Last edited by STATION2; 04-10-2005 at 12:11 AM.
    Stay low and move it in.

    Be safe.


    Larry

  18. #38
    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
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    I see it pretty simple as far as staffing it.

    Quint comes in first, positions as a truck. Engine comes in after it, drops its crew, lays line from Quint to water supply. There's your two crews to run the truck. Why is this such a hard thing for people to figure out?
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  19. #39
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    Bones, you'll never get anywhere in life making sense like that.

  20. #40
    Forum Member Dave1983's Avatar
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    Quints: Manpower limiting devices used by weak fire department administrators to please their political handlers by reducing manpower and decreasing budgets at the expense of the personnel on the rigs.
    Same old tired argument

    1) Quints are designed and built to perform 2 functions on the fireground simultaniously. They can only do this if staffed correctly. The MINIMUM staffing needed to perfrom even the most basic engine and truck work, at the same time, is 8:
    Quints are desinged to function as a ladder co OR engine co. Only an idiot would try and do both at the same time. We have 4 on our quint. So we either have a 4 FF engine co or a 4 FF ladder co.

    6) Ever laid a LDH supply line with a quint around a corner? LOL. Avoid it if possible unless you have spare parts readily available in your station or a side stacker body which means no compartment space.
    Yes, many times. Never had a problem. And we dont have a side stacker.

    Quint comes in first, positions as a truck. Engine comes in after it, drops its crew, lays line from Quint to water supply. There's your two crews to run the truck. Why is this such a hard thing for people to figure out?
    BINGO

    Or, as we do it, engine lays from the hydrant to the quint. Its not rocket science folks
    Fire Marshal/Safety Officer

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