To Quint or not to Quint, whats the deal?

[BC79er_OLDDELETE]

C'mon Larry, there's always Ferrara to make fun of. All those homing pigeons that are about to be delivered to HFD ought to make for some fodder.

$5.5 million for 11 basic pumpers with no foam? Man, and y'all say Pierce is overpriced? Sheesh. I hope that report on pricing was wrong, or someone is going to be walking funny after getting that bill.

On subject: again, I'm not arguing that quints should replace an engine and a ladder. Completely the opposite. My argument is that what's the difference if it has a pump if it's going to be used as a truck no matter what? And if it is first in, isn't it better to have some water than be waiting on an engine that's 5 minutes out? Happened several times around here, first 6 units on location were 2 chiefs, 2 ambulances, and 2 ladders. No water, no hose for 6 minutes after the other units arrived because the closest 2 pumpers were on other calls. The public expects the firemen to come put the fire out when they arrive, kinda bad PR to have to tell them that this $500K+ truck doesn't have water, we need to wait for another one. Yeah I know, search, ventilation, etc, etc, but might that kill a few more firefighters? Searching without handline protection?

So I say leave the quint as a truck unless absolutely necessary. And if your local powers that be see it as two units in one, better get out your sharpened pencil and let them know that's not how it is. Don't judge the truck by it's pump.

For the sake of Larry's head let's not get into comparing pumps on ladders to EMS equipment on fire trucks. Talk about tons of training to stay sharp on both.

[FFFRED]

On subject: again, I'm not arguing that quints should replace an engine and a ladder. Completely the opposite. My argument is that what's the difference if it has a pump if it's going to be used as a truck no matter what? And if it is first in, isn't it better to have some water than be waiting on an engine that's 5 minutes out? Happened several times around here, first 6 units on location were 2 chiefs, 2 ambulances, and 2 ladders. No water, no hose for 6 minutes after the other units arrived because the closest 2 pumpers were on other calls. The public expects the firemen to come put the fire out when they arrive, kinda bad PR to have to tell them that this $500K+ truck doesn't have water, we need to wait for another one. Yeah I know, search, ventilation, etc, etc, but might that kill a few more firefighters? Searching without handline protection?

Just out of curocity what percentage does this type of senario occur in your jurisdiction? Or are we just playing the "What if game?"

The question then presents two conclusions:

1. It is rare- Therefore this situation only occurs less than 1% of the time... you should have little concern as you probably don't staff your city or apparatus with enough manpower to meet 100% of your calls...as in you might still have to call 2nd alarms, mutual aid, recall personel. I imagnine that it is even less than 99%. You can't and probably don't plan for or staff for EVERY LAST plausible senario.

2. This has become common in your community to be without Engines and the Fire Chief could find himself being portrayed as a incompetant fool as he didn't bring this critical situation to the city council's attention.

If the avaiablity of the Engines has dropped to a level where there are no Engines available in a certain neghborhood wouldn't it make sense to either relocate companies temporairily, organize more Engine Co's or modify certain response procedures during low availablity..such as a tiered system of EMS runs like only cardiac arrests and chokings when you don't have enough Engines in service.

The ARMY doesn't make tanks to carry 14 addtional troops if they find themselves short of personell carriers. They get more personell carriers.

The public expects the firemen to come put the fire out when they arrive,

They also expect the proffesionals they hired to look at the big picture and realize that overall the FD as a whole operates effiecently.

As for

Yeah I know, search, ventilation, etc, etc, but might that kill a few more firefighters? Searching without handline protection?

You are kidding right? You want someone to hold their hand? Well trained Truck companies should be capable of evaluating a specific situation and taking appropriate precautions while conducting business. If you are operating without the benefit of a handline take the can and see what you can do to isolate the fire...perhaps to the room of origin or even knock it down entirely. If a Truckie can't operate without a handline...he belongs in the Engine.

My expereince with Quints hasn't been to give tools to Trucks...it was used to avoid opening new Truck companies. How lower staffing and fewer companies benefits anyone other than politicans with pet projects I'll never know???

FTM-PTB

[Dave1983]

Good ahead, say what you want about how we operate and all the "problems" with it, bash it till the cows come home. Nobdy seems to be understanding what Ive said anyway, as they continue to say things like "you need SOGs" (we have them).

But the simple fact remains that the number one priority with our SOG's is FF safety, and our operations are based on that. We have, what I would consider, an above average save rate for buildings, very few serious FF injuries and a LODD about once every 30 yeas (or more). Maybe some dont see that as important, but we do.

Our fires, big and little, go out (usualy with 4 walls and roof still inplace) and 99% of the time EVERYBODY goes home. So go ahead, bash away

[STATION2]

Dave, No matter what we disagree on and how we operate differently, I agree 110%. As long as everyone goes home, that is all that matters.

[ranahan]

Originally posted by STATION2
As long as everyone goes home, that is all that matters.

Ding-ding...we have the correct answer.

Dave, didn't mean to give you a headache.
I think you and I just had some communication issues; didn't mean to bash or anything.
No hard feelings, right?

And thanks to FFFRED for the support.

[Dave1983]

Originally posted by ranahan


Ding-ding...we have the correct answer.

Dave, didn't mean to give you a headache.
I think you and I just had some communication issues; didn't mean to bash or anything.
No hard feelings, right?

And thanks to FFFRED for the support.

Na, life's too short for hard feelings

[fyredog648]

We currently staff (3-4) a 75' quint. We have been very unhappy with the performance and space on the unit. We are ready to upgrade and go to something with more reach, a lot more comp. space, and (not my call) a pump. I have seen some quint tillers out there, anyone have any feedback on this concept?

Thanks for your help.

[STATION2]

You run a quint now? But your new proposed one will have a pump? Not meaning to be difficult, but I'm confused. Does your current ladder truck have a pump, booster tank and hosebed?

[osh599]

Our dept is part-paid with four full time members and the reason we purchased our newest quint was for quicker set up times. We have two quints; 1982 Pierce 85' Snorkel with a 1500 pump and 200 gallons of water ( problem here is it takes one person about six minutes to set the aerial up ), our newest one is an American LaFrance Eagle 75' Telesqurt with a 1500 pump and 500 tank. This truck is sweet, in two minutes I can have the ladder in the air. It is also first out for fires in our southern district. We only staff two of our three houses with one firefighter around the clock, so when there is a fire, we know that we have a ladder enroute even though it is not officially called an aerial ladder.
The snorkel pulls second out on fire responses but having a split LDH hose bed does make the operator pay attention when laying in. If you don't count the couplings coming off, you stand to not connect to the other hose bed.
We carry 1,000' of LDH on both quints. The ALF has the same compartment sizes of our 1,000 gallon engines do.