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Thread: Fdny 05' pysch test, updates, etc.

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    Post Fdny 05' pysch test, updates, etc.

    Hey new guy here, early 1400's, got my pysch test in april, anyone have any idea if we might be gettin into the may class? im pumped, also a personal trainer, so if any of you guys have any questions about any tips feel free to ask. Good luck guys!

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    Default Be Prepared!

    Yes, the psych test is another area you want to prepare for before you show up. I talked to a candidate two days ago who was creating all kinds of sea monsters in his head because he had to take a poly, psych test and an oral all on the same day; a week away!

    Psych test:

    You have been testing for three, five, or seven years to get a firefighter job, or you are testing for a promotional position in another department. You are finally in the hiring process. Youíve made it through the background check. Then, youíre conditionally offered the job pending the medical which includes a psychological test. You take the test, no big deal right? Then the phone stops ringing. You are out of the process. You are told that you didnít meet the profile. What profile?

    What do you mean I didnít meet the profile? Iíve got training, experience, education, every degree, certificate, merit badge, and a paramedic certification. Iíve been a volunteer, paid member of another department for 10 years, and lived and breathed this job. And, I donít meet the profile?

    The Personnel Department wonít talk to you. They say it was the psychological who passed judgment. The psychological wonít talk to you. You canít see the results of the test. You are devastated!

    The test is changing the fire service. Sure there are some folks who have a lot of baggage and shouldnít be hired. But most of the red-hotís, the backbone of the fire service, canít make it through the process. Surprisingly, the evaluations are based on the performance of those already in the fire service.

    If the psych test is so important, why donít they use it in Canada?

    More and more agencies are using the psychological test in their hiring process. Psychologists are competing for this lucrative business and agencies feel they need this service to hire the right candidates. In one large department forty-percent of candidates were eliminated from the hiring process through the psychological tests. Fire administrations feel theirs hands are tied and get frustrated when they see that a high percentage of their superior candidates who were eliminated by their physiological test are being hired by other agencies.

    ďPsychologists are given more power than they should,Ē says Robert Thomas Flint, Ph.D., who sometimes does re-evaluations of potential peace officers and firefighters who have failed psychological tests. Although he tends to agree 40-50% of the original decisions were valid, he finds that another 30-50% of the rejected candidates are acceptable and can handle the job.

    Dr. Flint feels that the PhD has been watered down, i.e., many of graduates in the last ten years, and the psychologist too often paint by the numbers and disqualify a person because they might have an unusual background. These psychologists do not have an adequate background in the statistics and the research necessary to be fully competent in the use of tests with unusual populations. That is, they are trained in identifying problems in the general population but are less skilled in the identifying the strengths in special groups such as firefighters. They also tend to have difficulty incorporating unusual backgrounds into their reports. But, donít a higher percentage of those with a burning desire for this job fall into these categories?

    Much of the problem falls on the cities themselves for not having control of the guidelines that the psychologists are using. Left on their own, psychologists will use their own devises to decide what to do, and this is not always related to the departmentís needs. If the guidelines are not well defined by the agency, then the psychologist might wash the candidate out for reasons not job relevant.

    Fire Administrations need to control the process by knowing the target they are trying to hit, what are the traits they are looking for. Then set those guidelines for the psychological test. Some obvious ones are being able to operate in a living environment, conflict resolution, being able to follow instructions, and functioning during emergency calls. Also, if problems of discipline or any other current problems are occurring within the department, those areas of concern should be address in the psychological test.

    According to Dr. Flint, too much emphasis is placed on the paper and pencil test. He feels strongly that unusual test scores should be evaluated in the light of the candidateís history. Very young candidates 21-25 often do not have enough history to refute problems suggested on the test. All candidates believe of course that they can handle the job, that they can meet any challenges, that they will hold up well at emergencies. The psychologistís job is to determine, as closely as possible whether those beliefs are sound. To give someone the benefit of the doubt maybe endangering them or someone else.

    If a candidate can demonstrate that he has overcome areas of conflict that the written test reveals and his early history demonstrates, then the test interpretation should reflect that fact. The paper score then should be thrown out, not the candidate.

    A case in point is a candidate that had been a smoke-jumper paramedic for the forest service. There is no doubt that this person could do the job. He scored high in the initiative category but Dr. Flint wanted to make sure his score on the conformity scale was high enough to balance out his high initiative score. Otherwise he might not be able to follow orders, wanting to do it his way.

    This type of situation became apparent when problems were created by ambulance paramedics, who were not aware that they were burning out on ambulance duty and were switching to the fire service. There were serious problems because the seasoned medics became discipline problems when they wanted to do things their way instead of following the chain of command.

    The candidate who had to take all his tests in one day came, passed, came out number 3 and they hired 2 so far.

    More in the Psych Interview Section here: http://eatstress.com/faq.htm

    You can find more on testing secrets in the Career Article section from the Jobs drop down menu just above this posting.

    "Nothing counts 'til you have the badge . . . Nothing!"

    Fire "Captain Bob" Author, Becoming A Firefighter and
    Conquer Fire Department Oral Boards

    www.eatstress.com

    888-238-3959

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    is your pshch in early or late april? Did you finish your medical?

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    Default hey

    my medical and pysch are two days apart. early april.

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    To answer your original question - if the May class is 250 as a couple people have said, then you should have a decent chance of getting in. From my understanding, they're in the 900s now, and with a 2:1 ratio, they should get into the 1400s. Good luck!
    IAFF
    PFANJ

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    Mattderose - congrats man on the awesome number and good luck with the psych's and medicals. From what I've heard the psych's aren't that big a deal (unless you're a raving lunatic)

    Where are you a physical trainer?

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    scarsdale, equinox. from the bx though, no scarsdale person.

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    Hey Mattderose when did you get your letter for your medical. I am sitting at 1548 and just wondering if I should place a call to my investigator.

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    hey shamus, well goodluck calling, anytime i try to contact my investigator they are never there, i recieved a couple weeks ago. they originally had me in for april 8th medical, now they sent a second letter sayin i have my med on the 4th and my pysch on 8th so i dont know really know what goes from there. Goodluck tryin to call buddy,.

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    Thats funny matterdose I called my investigator this morning and there was no answer then i tried a little later and some lady called and said to try next week sometime. The city sucks

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    i just spoke with my investigator and she said they wont be making it up to my # round 1400, so maybe the next class in august or sept. but she didnt say exactly when the next class was. but she also said anything could happen in gettin in may or whatever, to tell you the truth if i get in anytime this year ill be happy.

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    Matterdose, I hear you anything this year would be amazing. I never thought that this would be happening as fast as it has. I just got my medical letter and pych letter today. The nerves are really starting now. I tell you though we can't totally lose hope yet for May. If the past ratio holds up then you never know. Also I dont think that the city would be pushing our stuff so quickly if it wasn't a possibility all these test cost money. Good luck to everyone.

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    Hi.I got leter to show up for psych only yesterday.I am due on april 12.no medical though yet.How many weeks after psych is your medical?
    thanks

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    My medical is actually before my psych.

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    haha, Yeah my med is on the 4th of april and pysch is on the 8th. like i said before they sent me my medical letter and said it was on the 8th and sent another two letters stating it was a mistake and that my pysch is the 8th and med is actually the 4th. so just be patient. I am not even going to worry about it, I dont want to let it bother me and get all stressed out.
    FFwnt2b likes this.

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    Default Psych

    Please don't think this psych is a day at the beach! This is one of the reasons for the decline rate. Up to 40% of firefighter candidates fail the psych. That's right! How would you feel after investing all this time and energy in getting to this point and you go in and step on a few land mines and you're out of the process?

    I've talked to a lot of candidates that this has already happened to. Educating yourself before you show up is the key.

    You're Not Bullet Proof!

    I was speaking at a college fire technology program recently. The candidates seemed to sluff off their attention when I touched on the psych test. Yea, yea, yea this does not apply to me was the reaction. Until they couldnít believe their ears when a candidate said, you had better pay attention to Captain Bob because he is right on target. He said, ďHey Iím not a bad guy, but I recently took a psych test as the last step in getting hired. By the time they got done, they made me look like Charles Manson. There was dead silence and full attention as he revealed his story.

    This opened a flood gate of questions that seemed would never end. Just because you have passed the written, physical, oral, background and medical, please donít get the illusion that you are bullet proof, on a roll, and the psych test is going to be a day at the beach. I get the feeling that candidates who have already taken the psych written, are waiting for their oral interview with the psychologist are not acknowledging the possible land mines they could encounter, and somehow have if already figured in the four inches between their ears they will magically pass.

    Once recent candidateís dad was a captain at the department where his last step was the psych. He called devastated that he was out of the process.

    A large city fire department called in twelve candidates for the psychological interview. Some of these candidates were making postings on bulletin boards that if they couldn't pass the psych they didn't deserve the job. Only three passed. They sent in six more, only two passed. Another six more were tested. Again, only two passed. All those who passed were our people. They got our special report to prepare, to let them know where the land mines were before they went in. There were loud screams and how the test wasn't fair from those that failed. In a flash, their career for this premium class one department vanished. Ask those that passed if it was worth knowing the inside secrets?

    I talked to a candidate this week who had our psych report but said he didn't have enough time to read it before his psych and knew he could just pass it. Well, he failed. Let me get this right, you had our report and didn't take the time to prepare. Please. At some point it's completely up to you.

    Scroll back up and read the info on the psych because I don't want anymore calls asking what do I do now when you get the letter.

    Captain Bob

    www.eatstress.com
    Last edited by CaptBob; 03-27-2005 at 02:31 PM.

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    Default Shove it!

    Hey Capt. Bob, Quit trying to scare people into buying your product! The psych exams are not a meat grinder, I have taken a couple and passed them all. Its not something to study for. Take the test and use common sense on your answers. It's as simple as that. Go peddle your product elsewear!

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    Default Everyone is an Expert!

    Its not something to study for. Take the test and use common sense on your answers. It's as simple as that.
    Congratulations on your success. You must have already been hired? Unfortunetly not everyone has had your success. I believe in preparing for every step in the hiring process; BEFORE YOU SHOW UP!

    I guess the guy that called this week devestated when he failed didn't follow your advice. Too many great candidates are failing by not being prepared.

    Maybe you can leave your e-mail address and phone number so those who fail can call you.

    As always the candidates have a choice.

    "There is no free lunch . . . There are however better places to eat."

    Captain Bob

    www.eatstress.com
    Last edited by CaptBob; 03-27-2005 at 06:46 PM.

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    Post ridiculous

    I know many firefighters, nyc ones and westchester ones. THey say just be consistent with the answers and youll do fine. Hey capm crunch I just gave advice to people for free. uh ohhhhhh.
    good luck guys

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    Default Everyone is an Expert!

    Mattderose so how has this worked for you? Often firefighters who have never taken a psych test pass on the advice. Let us know it you get to this point and pass.

    Again add your e=mail address and phone number so when candidates fail they can call you for what to do NEXT!

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    when you draw the tree, dont draw a hole in the middle....when you draw the house, make sure you have a good amount of windows, sunshine, and dont put a chimney....and when you draw yourself, make it how you percieve yourself (in a good way)...as for the rest of the exam, its the same 40 questions asked 1400 times in different ways, just answer as honest as you can and your answers should be consistent...there you go, free advice, and no you cant have my email


    p.s.- capt bob, FDNY does not hire like most depts. there is no secondary interview (or its rare if there is), there is no resume, or any other kind of interview for this job. its all written scantron graded tests. though your advice may have helped others through out the country, it isnt going to work the same here.

    for everyone else, if you want it bad enough, youll get it.

    Fro

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    Default Yep!

    FRO516BMX

    Yes, I'm aware of the NYC testing process. But they do give a psych and that's what I'm concentrating on here.
    Last edited by CaptBob; 03-28-2005 at 05:17 AM.

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    Post hey fro

    you really have to draw in the psych test?

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    Mattderose,

    They ask you to draw some pictures of your house, you a tree etc...

    Don't draw the house on fire with a plane crashing in the background crack pipes in the yard and graffitti all over it...if you get my point.

    Just draw it as it looks. Draw the sun. Draw it as a picture would look. And he will ask you what it means...I suggest you just state you drew what he wanted and there isn't any meaning behind it. You were just following his request for the drawing and that is it. Thats what I told him as I wasn't thinking there was any meaning behind it at all...the test asked me to draw my house and I followed the simple request.

    The reason he is asking is to see if there is some deeper meaning or reresentation in what you drew...as in "I drew my house at night because I feel it appropriately represents my childhood growing up being molested by my uncle...."

    I think you catch my drift. This isn't a gallery showing in SOHO this is the doctors attempt to see if you are nutso! So as had been said don't overthink or try to outwit the test.

    He will also ask about any odd ball responses that stickout such as when I accidentaly marked the wrong circle on a question, he asked me about it. It was something like (I feel pain when I think of sex-True) or something like that. I told him I must have mismarked it because it wasn't true for me anyhow.

    Don't worry about it too much this isn't like what CAPT BOB portrays it as. We need bodies and we aren't as subjectively selective as the places he is more familiar with. We don't fail 40% of the canidates...we need bodies. The Doctor that reviewed me I'm sure no longer works in Metro Tech however he was "nuttier than a pecan log" and if he declares anyone unfit for this job then they should be committed to Bellevue! These are city doctors and if they were any good they'd have a private practice and not some low paying city job.

    Best of Luck-

    FTM-PTB

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    Guys, for FDNY there is no more mandatory psych evaluation with the doctor. The only time you get called to see him is if you say you hate your mother or you hear voices on the written. The evaluation was done away with for the most part.

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