Why register? ...To Enhance Your Experience
+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 21

Thread: rescue breaths

  1. #1
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    88

    Default rescue breaths

    A question for all EMTs.. I heard in the rumor mill that rescue breaths are no longer req'd for CPR and that compressions were sufficient in getting air into the lungs... am i correct?


  2. #2
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    218

    Default

    They are still required, what they are saying is if you are in the mall and someone goes down and you don't feel comfortable doing mouth to mouth that 15 compressions are enough. It is still highly recommended that you do ventilations but the 15 comp. will move enough oxygenated blood until backup arrives. This day and age you never know. I hope that helps

  3. #3
    Forum Member nmfire's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Maryland (DC Suburb)
    Posts
    5,738

    Default

    Medical Control for your area will tell you what you should and shouldn't do. Don't take the word of what someone halfway across the continent says because it has no bearing on your locality.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

  4. #4
    Forum Member Weruj1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    NW Ohio
    Posts
    7,857

    Default

    We just had some dispatch training on this for the LAYPERSON who calls 911. We have a criteria to choose between regular CPR, and going right to compressions. Also there are directions on what to do if the person refuses mouth to mount breathing. For recuers with gear in an offical capacity, NOTHING HAS CHANGED.........
    IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
    Pardon me sir.. .....but I believe we are all over here !
    ATTENTION ALL SHOPPERS: Will the dead horse please report to the forums.(thanks Motown)
    RAY WAS HERE 08/28/05
    LETHA' FOREVA' ! 010607
    I'm sorry, I haven't been paying much attention for the last 3 hours.....what were we discussing?
    "but I guarentee you I will FF your arse off" from>
    http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...60#post1137060post 115

  5. #5
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Wheaton IL
    Posts
    1,765

    Default

    This was blow way out of context back when the news reported it, 8 or 9 months ago I think.
    The media said that rescue breathing wasn't needed. The real story is that if a layperson doesn't have a barrier device and is uncomfortable with locking lips, their is evidence that compressions only are better then standing their doing nothing. It isn't the best for the patient but the rescuer is first then the patient.
    That's why I carry a pocket barrier device. http://www.laerdal.com/document.asp?subnodeid=8695265

  6. #6
    Forum Member maximumflow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Matawan nj
    Posts
    92

    Question rescue breaths

    interesting question. when i became an emt my instructor told us if you can't get an airway you might as well go home! compressions do not suck air into the lungs,therefor you must ventilate. but if you can't because of obstruction then compressions must be done to keep the blood flowing/moving until als arrives. fire/ems march 2005 from the editor, whats more important ,the ab or c of cpr and the concencus is the c, compressions! but this is not the rule we follow!!!!! as long as there are lawyers i will always try to ventilate ! i carry in my pov, collars,trauma bag with bvm, airway kit,pocket mask,but the most important i believe, i also carry a manuel suction unit! what good is an AED if their stomic contents are in their mouth. on my person,mask and gloves.

    helping people,
    it's what we do!
    capt.Dennis

  7. #7
    Forum Member Weruj1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    NW Ohio
    Posts
    7,857

    Default

    Max............this is for laypeople only who dont have any equipment .........
    IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
    Pardon me sir.. .....but I believe we are all over here !
    ATTENTION ALL SHOPPERS: Will the dead horse please report to the forums.(thanks Motown)
    RAY WAS HERE 08/28/05
    LETHA' FOREVA' ! 010607
    I'm sorry, I haven't been paying much attention for the last 3 hours.....what were we discussing?
    "but I guarentee you I will FF your arse off" from>
    http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...60#post1137060post 115

  8. #8
    medic123
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Default

    Originally posted by nmfire
    Medical Control for your area will tell you what you should and shouldn't do. Don't take the word of what someone halfway across the continent says because it has no bearing on your locality.

    Not really, med control does not cover lay person, as stated by others this is an AHA/EMD recommendation not for professional rescuers. Also the recommendation for lay rescuers now states donít check for pulse for unconscious unresponsive now the recommendation states go from breaths to compressions. This protocol is also what 911 dispatchers will instruct callers as it relates to chest compressions as opposed to breaths; it is believed something is better then nothing. Again only for lay person.

  9. #9
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    236

    Default

    It is suggested that ARC Instructors not include Mouth to Mouth resuscitation in their public CPR classes due to the risk of disease, etc.

    That does not include Family First Aid & CPR Classes, or classes for Infant and Child CPR or classes where masks are pre-purchased.

    Mouth to Mouth is still demonstrated, as is Mouth to Mask; but not as much as before. It is thought that compressions alone create enough air transfer and M2M goes against BSI. You are not isolating yourself against diseases.

  10. #10
    Forum Member fireguy919's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    eastern Ohio
    Posts
    952

    Default

    this is for the people with out ems back round. something else to go along with that. the red cross is alson teaching them not to check for a pulse either. if someone goes down see if they are breathing. if not start cpr. hope the victom just doesnt have shallow breaths.

  11. #11
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Upstate NY
    Posts
    487

    Default

    I did hear through the rumor mill that the rate of compressions to breaths will change, something along the lines of 30 compressions to 2 breaths. According our department medical adviser (doc) 15 compressions are not effective enough to move oxygenated blood through out, you need about 20-30 compressions to move the oxygenated blood. Again just a rumor I heard.

  12. #12
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 1999
    Location
    Fort Worth, Tx
    Posts
    7

    Default

    Actually there is a study that has been floating around for a couple of years that states exactly this. Dr Paul Pepe' (IIRC he's the medical director of Biotel at Parkland in Dallas) started this study. I saw him speak on it 2 years ago and the theory is that while doing compressions you build up the systemic pressure, but when you stop to give a breath the pressure drops back down. By maintaining this pressure with continious compressions instead of stopping for a breath, you could potentially have a greater probability of a save. Of course when you're dealing with save percentages of 5% or less, every little bit might help.

    Of course, this is all from memory. This was at a conference where we were imbibing quite a few spirits, and this was an early morning talk. If I can find any info on it, I'll try to post it.

  13. #13
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 1999
    Location
    Fort Worth, Tx
    Posts
    7

    Default

    Here's an article on compression only CPR (aimed at the layperson, but interesting):

    http://www.heartinfo.org/ms/news/519176/main.html

  14. #14
    Forum Member MetalMedic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    The Home of Smucker's Jelly
    Posts
    1,266

    Default

    From what I have been reading in various places.. this could become the new standard of CPR for everyone. As was pointed out, the "pulse check" is no longer the primary indicator of circulation. It is just one of the "signs of circulation" that you look for. You also no longer search for "landmarks" by walking the rib cage to the zyphoid process. Now, you simply look for mid-nipple line and compress there.

    You also no longer use an abdominal thrust to clear an airway for an unconscious victim with FBAO. So, it stands to reason that if chest compressions move sufficient air to clear the airway, it would move a reasonable amount of air to supply oxygen to the lungs.

    However, to answer the question, the American Safety & Health Institute (ASHI) still teaches rescue breaths with CPR with the emphasis on using breathing barriers. That is the current "standard of care", so your rumor mill is incorrect (for now).
    Richard Nester
    Orrville (OH) Fire Dept.

    "People don't care what you know... until they know that you care." - Scott Bolleter

  15. #15
    medic123
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Default

    As an instructor, the reason why we teach lay rescuers chest thrust for everything on the ground is so they donít have to tell the difference between an arrest and a chocking victim. If an EMT or Medic canít check for a pulse and get it right please give up your card. Use of monitor will assist as well, but all the recommendations talked about are purely for lay rescue folks. On another note once pt. tubed you donít stop for breaths so the whole thing becomes irrelevant once ALS is present. The basic principal in all CPR calls is the compress at the rate of around 100 a min for an adult. And with withholding Breathing for more then 2 min all you accomplish is pushing around un Oxygenated blood thus pt. still goes to anaerobic and will not make out to well.

    But back to basic's AED's save lives CPR becomes exerise if it goes on for more then 5 min without AED or better.

  16. #16
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    3

    Default

    I find it hard to believe that they (dispatch) are telling people to begin CPR with out checking for a pulse. How hard is it to check for a pulse?
    I know itís our protocol that we must have BSI in place before touching a pt. Some sort of barrier or BVM is need for us to begin working on a pt. I carry a personal mask on key chain so if I am out and about and duty calls I am safe.

  17. #17
    Forum Member firenresq77's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    Northwest Ohio
    Posts
    5,213

    Default

    Originally posted by USSFF198
    I find it hard to believe that they (dispatch) are telling people to begin CPR with out checking for a pulse. How hard is it to check for a pulse?
    Believe it........

    Through studies they have found that most people can't differentiate between a pt. having a pulse or feeling their own pulse......... If the person is breathing, they either don't have a pulse or if they do it won't be there for long........
    The comments made by me are my opinions only. They DO NOT reflect the opinions of my employer(s). If you have an issue with something I may say, take it up with me, either by posting in the forums, emailing me through my profile, or PMing me through my profile.
    We are all adults so there is no need to act like a child........
    IACOJ

  18. #18
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    88

    Default

    Well dang! i myself think that people should tough up and go ahead with breaths, but hey its only some ones life... and for not checking the pulse, if im not mistaken that could kill someone if they still have vitals...

  19. #19
    Forum Member Weruj1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    NW Ohio
    Posts
    7,857

    Default

    Goofball ..........it isnt about toughin it out ....its about catching some disease from someone you dont know that could KILL YOU !
    Again you have to remember these are lay people who in a moment of crisis could find their Adams Apple with both hands.
    IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
    Pardon me sir.. .....but I believe we are all over here !
    ATTENTION ALL SHOPPERS: Will the dead horse please report to the forums.(thanks Motown)
    RAY WAS HERE 08/28/05
    LETHA' FOREVA' ! 010607
    I'm sorry, I haven't been paying much attention for the last 3 hours.....what were we discussing?
    "but I guarentee you I will FF your arse off" from>
    http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...60#post1137060post 115

  20. #20
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    88

    Default

    you got a point... i didnt think about the disease thing, i carry a barrier device so that never crosses my mind...

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts