Thread: Help

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    Hey guys I need a little bit of help finding some information. there was an interesting thread on here a while back that had a link about a sub during the civil war that was manned by a group of volunteer firefighters. I cant remember exactly what it was or the name of it. I need a topic for a research paper in my english class, and i think this would be interesting. Any help on finding this is greatly appreciated. thanks in advance.
    "I truly believe that tradition is important to the long-term survival of the fire service."-Lt. Andrew Fredricks, FDNY,9-11-01

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    I've been thinking about it and i think the thread had something to do with the history of the fire service uniform or something of that nature.
    "I truly believe that tradition is important to the long-term survival of the fire service."-Lt. Andrew Fredricks, FDNY,9-11-01

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    Can you remember which army it was for.
    Thanks
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    The only submarine in the Civil war was the CSS ( Confederate,ship, submersible.) Hunley. It was a miserable failure and sank.
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    go to NUMA founded by Clive Cussler (the Author).

    They are the people that raised the Hunley.
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    Originally posted by stm4710
    It was a miserable failure and sank.
    I don't know about "miserable failure" considering the technology of the time. It was the first submarine in history to successfully sink an enemy boat. It was hand powered, and the interior was lighted with candles. The hatch was bolted closed and could not be opened from the inside. It was armed with an explosive charge mounted on a "spear" on the front of the craft. Considering it sank more than once, killing its crew each time, the men who nonetheless rode in the Hunley for its last mission had balls of steel-plated granite, the kind of which you don't see much anymore, even amongst us.

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    Originally posted by stm4710
    The only submarine in the Civil war was the CSS ( Confederate,ship, submersible.) Hunley. It was a miserable failure and sank.
    Man, I love these posts...

    History lesson time.

    Horace Hunley, James McClintock and Baxter Watson developed three true submarines during the war, the first, the Pioneer was built and successfully tested in New Orleans in 1862. She was destroyed to prevent capture by the Union when they took the city.

    The second, named American Diver, was built in Mobile in late 1862. She also was successfully tested. They didn't consider her fast enough to be used operationally and was lost in a storm while being towed out of Mobile Bay.

    The third was the HL Hunley. She was slightly larger than the diver, but was similar in design.

    The designers of these boats were way, way ahead of their time. During the design of the diver, they tried to fit an electric motor and steam engine - very similar to modern diesel/electric boats. The Hunley also had:

    Diving planes
    An internal depth gauge
    A snorkel (not seen again until WWII on u-boats)
    The ability to stay submerged for 2 hours even w/o the snorkel
    Compartmented ballast tanks

    The Hunley sank three times, the first time she had just got underway to attack the Union fleet when and the CO accidentily dove the boat with the hatches still open. Half the crew, including the CO survived. She was recovered but sank a second time while undergoing a routine dive. Hunley himself was at the helm when this accident occured. The whole crew perished, so the exact cause isn't known but the forward sea valve was broken when she was recovered. These losses aren't shameful. The nuclear attack submarine USS Thresher sank with all hands due to a failed valve.

    On February 17, 1864 the Hunley attacked and sank the USS Housatonic. She never returned to port. For years, the story was told that she was dragged to the bottom by her victim. The tale persisted even though confederate lookouts clearly reported seening her signal that she had conducted a successful attack (Union observers also reported the signal, they just didn't know what it meant at the time). When the Hunley was located, it was obvious from her location that she didn't go down with her victim. She was observed and fired on with small arms during her run-in to the target and may have been damaged. There was also a storm shortly after her attack that may have caused her loss. Clive Cussler (the author and man that found the Hunley) has even speculated in one of his books that she may have been lost in a collision with a ship coming to the aid of the Housatonic.

    A miserable failure? Not at all - actually the first successful attack submarine.

    The Union navy also had a submarine named the Alligator. She was oar-powered and used operationally to attack a bridge on the Appomattox river. The mission was aborted because the water was too shallow. She sank under tow in 1863 - she was being towed south to be used in an attack on Charleston SC.

    The confederate navy also had a class of boats called "Davids" that submerged until only a few inches were above water. Not true submarines but very close.

    Once again, a little fact checking before we post please.
    Last edited by EFD840; 03-23-2005 at 05:32 PM.

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    2 men survived the second sinking. She had a crew of 8.
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    A miserable failure? Not by at all - actually the first successful attack submarine
    I wouldnt consider a submarine that kills its crew and sinks 3 times a success.
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    Friends of the Hunley site

    Here's the ultimate source about the Hunley.

    I wouldnt consider a submarine that kills its crew and sinks 3 times a success.
    Ask the crew of the Housatanic what they think. Better yet, head down the road to Groton, CT and take a peek at the boats. Everything that makes them work was pioneered in the Hunley.

    To the original poster, sorry for the hijack. I've never heard about any FF-crewed submarine. The crews of the Hunley were all volunteer submariners but their civilian occupations were diverse (or unknown).

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    Boomer,

    There are only two units that I can find that have anything to do with firemen.

    One was the 72nd Pennsylvania Volunteer Infantry (also known as the Fire Zouaves)http://philazou.home.mindspring.com/index.html

    There is a statue of a fireman in a cornfield in Gettysburg - it was the 73rd New York Infantry (Second Fire Zouaves)
    http://www.nps.gov/gett/gettregts/nyi73.htm

    I don't recall any navy units that were made up of firemen.
    Last edited by Ladder8; 03-23-2005 at 04:11 PM.
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    Originally posted by stm4710
    I wouldnt consider a submarine that kills its crew and sinks 3 times a success.
    Thomas Edison created over 1000 failed lightbulbs before arriving at a design that could be marketed. Maybe the Hunley wasn't a huge success by military standards, but those men were pioneers, and as important to todays submariners as Edison was to industry.
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    Originally posted by mcaldwell


    Thomas Edison created over 1000 failed lightbulbs before arriving at a design that could be marketed. Maybe the Hunley wasn't a huge success by military standards, but those men were pioneers, and as important to todays submariners as Edison was to industry.
    Sorry Mcaldwell, have to disagree with you on this one....I dont think edison killed any one making light bulbs
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    Originally posted by Dave404

    Sorry Mcaldwell, have to disagree with you on this one....I dont think edison killed any one making light bulbs
    OK, maybe it wasn't the best comparison.

    But think of how many hundreds or thousands of pioneer pilots and test pilots have died in the advancement of aeronautical technology. How about astronauts. Is the space shuttle a success? It has killed two crews in 20 years. Sometimes we learn the most from a disaster.
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    hey guys thanks for the help this is some pretty interesting stuff. I think I'm going to go with the role volunteer firefighters played in the civil war. Also wasnt there another sub called the merrimack in the civil war that's crew was mainly made up of volunteer firemen. I finally found the thread i saw this on

    http://cms.firehouse.com/forums2/sho...f+blue+uniform

    thanks for the help
    "I truly believe that tradition is important to the long-term survival of the fire service."-Lt. Andrew Fredricks, FDNY,9-11-01

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    Originally posted by FF41230
    hey guys thanks for the help this is some pretty interesting stuff. I think I'm going to go with the role volunteer firefighters played in the civil war. Also wasnt there another sub called the merrimack in the civil war that's crew was mainly made up of volunteer firemen. I finally found the thread i saw this on

    http://cms.firehouse.com/forums2/sho...f+blue+uniform

    thanks for the help
    The Merrimack wasnt a submarine. The Hunley was it for subs that did anything. The Merrimack was a captured ship that was rebuilt into a type of ship that sat very low in the water. But the Merrimack could not submerese and rise.

    http://www.cyberessays.com/History/140.htm
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    The "Merrimack" wasn't a submarine. It was an ironclad that was originally a US Navy frigate that had been scuttled. Confederate naval engineers salvaged the ship and converted it to an ironclad, renaming it the CSS Virginia.

    Do a search on the battle of Hampton Roads, it will give you the information.
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