1. #26
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    Originally posted by ThNozzleman

    Let's see...I believe it was Kerry who was the decorated veteran that George constantly spit on, while supporting the frat boy dodger who hid out in TX.
    Calling Kerry a decorated war veteran is like calling you Yankee Doodle Dandee.

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    Originally posted by MalahatTwo7


    No Poop on the boots there eh? PLUS! 3 squares a day, a dry bunk... what more could a guy as for? Oh .. and rent is paid by someone else!
    And we are the "lucky" ones who get to pay for his stay.

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    ok ... so I guess we are done talking about the guy who ran away from his duties as a member of the United States Army.......

    Oh, and we need to thank Canada for Red Green while we are thanking em ....

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    Originally posted by LaFireEducator
    Oh, and we need to thank Canada for Red Green while we are thanking em ....
    Thats OK , you can keep him
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    Originally posted by Smoke20286


    Thats OK , you can keep him
    Speak for yourself!!!

    Red Green May well be the only good thing ever to come out of CBC.

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    Originally posted by GeorgeWendtCFI


    Calling Kerry a decorated war veteran is like calling you Yankee Doodle Dandee.
    And calling Bush an accomplished fighter pilot is like calling you Inspector Clouseau.

    Oh wait. You are.

    Three Purple Hearts, the Silver Star and the Bronze Star.


    Yet somehow we're not supposed to believe official military records, or the person who got fished out of the water (a registered Republican btw). We're supposed to believe a group of crackpot conservatives even though their own records contradict their stories.

    The SwiftVets impugned the honor and sacrifice of everyone who has worn the uniform. Honors and decorations are now bogus according to this group.

    And yet they consider themselves patriots. How ironic.
    Last edited by scfire86; 03-29-2005 at 11:17 PM.
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    And Kerry or Bush has what to do with a kid who is not man enough to stand up for what he believes is right and flees to another country leaving his comrades to pick up the slack in combat for his selfishness?

    The political dribble has nothing to do with this pathetic kid.
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    Originally posted by DaSharkie
    And Kerry or Bush has what to do with a kid who is not man enough to stand up for what he believes is right and flees to another country leaving his comrades to pick up the slack in combat for his selfishness?
    It has nothing to do with it. The direction this thread took was the result of conservative individuals who have blind hatred for Kerry, and buy into every crackpot conservative idea. And yet, Kerry did serve his country. He did volunteer for duty to a combat area. The GOP's who did serve their country by going to Vietnam (McCain, Hagel, and others) never attacked Kerry's service or patriotism. Ironically, it was those who hadn't who were the most bombastic.

    How very sad that faction of the GOP has become.
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    The political dribble has nothing to do with this pathetic kid.
    Considering our great leader (who has no problem sending thousands off to die) did pretty much the same thing (hid out while others picked up the slack in combat for his selfishness, including Kerry), I think it's always going to be relevant.
    How very sad that faction of the GOP has become.
    Pathetic is a better choice of words, actually.

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    Originally posted by ThNozzleman

    Considering our great leader (who has no problem sending thousands off to die) did pretty much the same thing (hid out while others picked up the slack in combat for his selfishness, including Kerry), I think it's always going to be relevant.
    Not relevant to this kid's case, nor does it excuse his actions.
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  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI
    Thank you to the Canadian judicial system for dealing appropriately with this coward.

    Canada Denies Refugee Status to American
    Mar 24, 9:28 PM (ET)

    By BETH DUFF-BROWN

    TORONTO (AP) - A U.S. Army paratrooper who fled to Canada to avoid serving in Iraq was denied political asylum Thursday, dealing a blow to other deserters here who argue such duty would force them to commit atrocities against civilians.

    An immigration board ruled that Jeremy Hinzman had not convinced its members he would face persecution or cruel and unusual punishment if returned to the United States.

    Seven other American military personnel have applied for refugee status, and Hinzman's lawyer estimated dozens of others are in hiding in Canada waiting to see how the government ruled. The attorney, Jeffry House, said Hinzman would appeal the ruling.

    House said at a news conference that the Immigration and Refugee Board had not allowed him to argue that the war in Iraq is illegal and would make that complaint before a federal appeals court.

    He said there were many problems with the ruling, describing it as filled with "deference" to the United States.

    Immigration and Refugee Board member Brian Goodman, who wrote the ruling, said Hinzman might face some employment and social discrimination. But "the treatment does not amount to a violation of a fundamental human right, and the harm is not serious," he wrote.

    Canada has long opposed American wars; former Prime Minister Pierre Trudeau declared his homeland "a refuge from militarism" during the Vietnam War and allowed the 30,000 to 50,000 American draft dodgers to settle here. Ottawa also opposed the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq, but is also seeking to ease badly strained relations between the two governments.

    Hinzman could face charges of desertion if sent home and would face up to five years in prison. He and seven other U.S. military deserters are being represented by House, a Wisconsin native who came to Canada in 1970 to avoid the draft during the Vietnam War.

    The Pentagon has urged the deserters to return to the United States and take up their concerns at their respective military bases.

    "We are an Army serving a nation at war," the Army said in a statement after Thursday's ruling. "Each of us volunteered to serve, and the vast majority serve honorably. AWOL and desertion are crimes that go against Army values, degrade unit readiness and, in a time of war, may put the lives of other soldiers at risk."

    Hinzman, 26, lives with his wife and young son in Toronto, where Quakers and the War Resisters coalition of anti-war groups have taken on his cause and provided some shelter.

    Currently a bicycle messenger, Hinzman told an anti-war rally after the announcement that he would continue to fight for his right to remain in Canada, as well as the seven other young men seeking refugee status.

    "Canada has a history for being a haven for people of conscience," he said. "Hopefully that legacy will continue."

    He fled from Fort Bragg, N.C., in January 2004, weeks before his 82nd Airborne Division was due to go to Iraq. He had served three years in the Army, but had applied for conscientious objector status before his unit was sent to Afghanistan in 2002.

    Hinzman argued before the board in December that he would have had to take part in war crimes if he went to Iraq, saying the war there is illegal. He said he would be persecuted if forced to return to the United States.

    Hinzman also testified he had been willing to fulfill his full four-year obligation to the Army, but not to participate in combat.

    "I find Mr. Hinzman's position to be inherently contradictory," Goodman said in the ruling. "Surely an intelligent young man like Mr. Hinzman, who believes the war in Iraq to be illegal, unjust and waged for economic reasons, would be unwilling to participate in any capacity, whether as combatant or noncombatant."

    Hinzman's lawyer estimated as many as 100 American war resisters are hiding in Canada, waiting to see how Hinzman's case is played out before coming forward.

    During the Vietnam era, young American men could be drafted into military service, but now enlistment in U.S. military is voluntary. The military attracts many young recruits with job skills training and programs that help pay for university.

    Five of the eight men publicly seeking asylum in Canada attended an anti-war rally, where two dozen protesters shouted anti-American slogans across from the U.S. Consulate in downtown Toronto. They were Hinzman; Joshua Key, 26, of Oklahoma City; Dave Sanders, 20, a Navy deserter who had been underground in Canada since March of 2003; Cliff Cornell, 24, from Mountain Home, Arkansas; and Darrell Anderson, an Army soldier who served seven months in Iraq last year.

    "I was faced with situations where, if I followed orders, I would have killed innocent people," Anderson, 22, told the crowd. "I refused to do that."


    I have to whole heartedly agree here!

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    Considering our great leader (who has no problem sending thousands off to die) did pretty much the same thing (hid out while others picked up the slack in combat for his selfishness, including Kerry), I think it's always going to be relevant.
    The start of this thread was about a paratrooper, I believe. A voluntary enlistee, who if he was a paratrooper had to volunteer to be trained as a paratrooper, as well. He also opted to go to Canada, on his own. He is a deserter in a time of war, a firing squad offense, if I'm not mistaken.
    The people who attacked Kerry, and his war record were wrong. The people who attacked Bush, and his national guard service are also wrong. Many people avoided the draft by enlisting in the guard, the coast guard and other so call "non-combat" service's. Belittling, and minimizing a guard member's service is disgusting, it is also an insult to many of those members who have served. Who are we to judge what is "adequate" service? Many, though not sent to Vietnam, or other over seas billetts have spent many months, and perhaps years away from family, from friends, creature comforts etc... What designates "adequate" service, or who designates? Are all guardsmen "draft dodgers", or only those who became president? What about presdent's who never served militarily period? Were the other air guardsmen who served with Bush also thwarting the war, and avoiding combat?

    To rip, or pick apart an individual's service record, especially, when those doing th picking have never served is a disgrace. It happens every day in politics, from both sides. I myself am guilty, I have learned from those mistakes, hopefully others will, as well. Running to Canada however, can't be overlooked. It absolutely can not it be tolerated, and those who are caught in Canada need to be extradited, in order to face the prosecution they deserve.
    Last edited by jasper45; 09-03-2005 at 11:59 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jasper45
    The start of this thread was about a paratrooper, I believe. A voluntary enlistee, who if he was a paratrooper had to volunteer to be trained as a paratrooper, as well. He also opted to go to Canada, on his own. He is a deserter in a time of war, a firing squad offense, if I'm not mistaken.
    I agree with jasper, This guy vollunteered for everything. The only problem is that for years (since gulf war I) the US armed forces have not been deployed in this large of a scale. You of course cannot count a few thousand in bosnia or where ever(although, I am sure they saw combat). The problem lies here...men and woman that are joining the services are thinking that they are getting a 4 year payed and secure job where they can go to college and now get to check that little veteran status box in there job applications. They were never expecting to have to goto a war that many of them do not agree with. And had they known that they were going over fight an illigitimate war they would not of joined. Or so I think!!!!So there, my rant is done
    Now I can go a few months without posting anything to extensive!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by manofire2
    Speak for yourself!!!

    Red Green May well be the only good thing ever to come out of CBC.
    What about Mr.Dressup and the friendly giant?

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    Very funny joke. Even funnier considering that Cambridge isn't in the Ivy League. It's not even in the U.S. It's in ENGLAND!!!
    Wrong. Cambridge is less than 15 miles from me and I am in Illinois! They don't have ivy there, but the folks there are nuts about cucumbers and tomatoes.
    Another vacancy just opened up on the Supreme Court.
    I smell a conservative court coming! You know the kind. They're the kind that won't hear the case of a military deserter. They will leave THAT for the military courts.
    Yea!
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefReason
    Another vacancy just opened up on the Supreme Court.
    I smell a conservative court coming! You know the kind. They're the kind that won't hear the case of a military deserter. They will leave THAT for the military courts.
    Yea!
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    Quote Originally Posted by hwoods
    Shal we begin to espouse your kind and gentle judicial qualities to everyone inside the Beltway here? I mean, Mr. Justice CR does have a certain ring to it........
    But harve, there's one thing in his name that would kill his opportunity for any such appointment....wanna guess what it is? REASON!
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI
    Those who went to Canada during Viet Nam were also cowards. Gutless cowards. They spit in the face of the tens of thousands of men and women who gave their lives so their snivelling little butts had the freedoms they enjoyed.

    Im sorry George, but what part of that war had anything to do with protecting our freedoms? My bad, I must have missed the part about the VC planning an invasion of the U.S. .





    And now he will call me names...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave1983
    Im sorry George, but what part of that war had anything to do with protecting our freedoms? My bad, I must have missed the part about the VC planning an invasion of the U.S. .





    And now he will call me names...

    When were we ever in danger of being invaded by Germany, or Japan for that matter? How about Korea?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jasper45
    When were we ever in danger of being invaded by Germany, or Japan for that matter? How about Korea?
    I must admit, I wasnt around then, but I seem to recall reading that there was a genuine concern that the Jap's were going to invade the west coast. They certainly had the capability (unlike the VC). And I do belive they attacked us first. I also think the Germans were their allies and the way it worked back then was, if one attacks you in essence they all did. Matter of fact, I dont have the time line in front of me, but I belive Germany declared war on us first, in support of their allies.

    The Veitnam war had absolutly nothing to do with protecting our freedoms. Just like Korea, or Kosavo, or Angola, or Lebanon, or (here it comes) Iraq. The last war this country was in that had anything to do with protecting our freedoms was WWII (I dont consider Afganastan a war in the true sense).

    Its just more of the blind, patriotic dribble that you hear anytime the U.S. millitary is sent into another country, no matter the reason (save evacuating U.S. citizens). And no, Im not bassing anyone for being patriotic. Just stop letting your patriatism be a blinder when it comes to the actions of our government.
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    I wouldn't call it "patriotic dribble".
    What I see is that a call for help from a people who needs and the United States answers the call.
    If we don't, who will?
    We create or at least fashion an environment where a country's people can insert themselves into a government who has a history of killing people who oppose it. Kind of the way this country was under English rule in the 1700s.
    We don't force our will on other countries. Name me one country that we have taken over for the sheer folly of it?
    These aren't table top exercises. These are real people in real trouble who need the assistance of a country strong enough to level the playing field for them.
    When you break it down to that level, I hardly believe that politics drive the policies.
    Naive? Maybe; but I am not so full of cynicism that I can't still believe that we went because it was the RIGHT THING TO DO!
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    We don't force our will on other countries. Name me one country that we have taken over for the sheer folly of it?
    Chief, this is the key argument that the left can never answer honestly. The second one is "If Iraq is a war for oil, where is the oil"?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefReason
    I wouldn't call it "patriotic dribble".
    What I see is that a call for help from a people who needs and the United States answers the call.
    If we don't, who will?
    We create or at least fashion an environment where a country's people can insert themselves into a government who has a history of killing people who oppose it. Kind of the way this country was under English rule in the 1700s.
    We don't force our will on other countries. Name me one country that we have taken over for the sheer folly of it?
    These aren't table top exercises. These are real people in real trouble who need the assistance of a country strong enough to level the playing field for them.
    When you break it down to that level, I hardly believe that politics drive the policies.
    Naive? Maybe; but I am not so full of cynicism that I can't still believe that we went because it was the RIGHT THING TO DO!
    CR
    Perhaps a poor choice of words.

    But lets be honest, the U.S. isnt as inocent as some people tend to belive. They just cant see it through that flag they wrap themselves in.

    Hey, Im as patriotic as the next guy. I have Old Glory stickers on my pov's. I fly it proudly at my home. I was one of the guys who pushed to have flags on our helmets at work. I joined the Marines right out of high school (didnt make it due to an injury).

    I just look at things with an open mind, and dont let my feelings for this country (or politics) cloud my vision.
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    When were we ever in danger of being invaded by Germany, or Japan for that matter? How about Korea?
    Little known facts is that a Japense Submarine fired shells at a Military Base in Oregon in 1942 I think, not quite sure of the year. Also, the japs set several acres on fire using Ballons fited with explosives that would drop in the US. And the Japs even captured several of the Islands off the Coast of Alaska but they were too small of much importance. I just wanted to say that because I wanted to be a a-hole.

    The deal with Iraq is that while they have supplied terrorists with weapons in the past a la Abu Nidal, Saddam and Osama would never work hand in hand together because they hate each other.

    Now while Germany never attacked the US directly on American Soil, through WW2, America was supplying German enemies with supplies. Lend-Lease program, etc, etc.

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