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  1. #1
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    Default Big Thank You to Canada

    Thank you to the Canadian judicial system for dealing appropriately with this coward.

    Canada Denies Refugee Status to American
    Mar 24, 9:28 PM (ET)

    By BETH DUFF-BROWN

    TORONTO (AP) - A U.S. Army paratrooper who fled to Canada to avoid serving in Iraq was denied political asylum Thursday, dealing a blow to other deserters here who argue such duty would force them to commit atrocities against civilians.

    An immigration board ruled that Jeremy Hinzman had not convinced its members he would face persecution or cruel and unusual punishment if returned to the United States.

    Seven other American military personnel have applied for refugee status, and Hinzman's lawyer estimated dozens of others are in hiding in Canada waiting to see how the government ruled. The attorney, Jeffry House, said Hinzman would appeal the ruling.

    House said at a news conference that the Immigration and Refugee Board had not allowed him to argue that the war in Iraq is illegal and would make that complaint before a federal appeals court.

    He said there were many problems with the ruling, describing it as filled with "deference" to the United States.

    Immigration and Refugee Board member Brian Goodman, who wrote the ruling, said Hinzman might face some employment and social discrimination. But "the treatment does not amount to a violation of a fundamental human right, and the harm is not serious," he wrote.

    Canada has long opposed American wars; former Prime Minister Pierre Trudeau declared his homeland "a refuge from militarism" during the Vietnam War and allowed the 30,000 to 50,000 American draft dodgers to settle here. Ottawa also opposed the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq, but is also seeking to ease badly strained relations between the two governments.

    Hinzman could face charges of desertion if sent home and would face up to five years in prison. He and seven other U.S. military deserters are being represented by House, a Wisconsin native who came to Canada in 1970 to avoid the draft during the Vietnam War.

    The Pentagon has urged the deserters to return to the United States and take up their concerns at their respective military bases.

    "We are an Army serving a nation at war," the Army said in a statement after Thursday's ruling. "Each of us volunteered to serve, and the vast majority serve honorably. AWOL and desertion are crimes that go against Army values, degrade unit readiness and, in a time of war, may put the lives of other soldiers at risk."

    Hinzman, 26, lives with his wife and young son in Toronto, where Quakers and the War Resisters coalition of anti-war groups have taken on his cause and provided some shelter.

    Currently a bicycle messenger, Hinzman told an anti-war rally after the announcement that he would continue to fight for his right to remain in Canada, as well as the seven other young men seeking refugee status.

    "Canada has a history for being a haven for people of conscience," he said. "Hopefully that legacy will continue."

    He fled from Fort Bragg, N.C., in January 2004, weeks before his 82nd Airborne Division was due to go to Iraq. He had served three years in the Army, but had applied for conscientious objector status before his unit was sent to Afghanistan in 2002.

    Hinzman argued before the board in December that he would have had to take part in war crimes if he went to Iraq, saying the war there is illegal. He said he would be persecuted if forced to return to the United States.

    Hinzman also testified he had been willing to fulfill his full four-year obligation to the Army, but not to participate in combat.

    "I find Mr. Hinzman's position to be inherently contradictory," Goodman said in the ruling. "Surely an intelligent young man like Mr. Hinzman, who believes the war in Iraq to be illegal, unjust and waged for economic reasons, would be unwilling to participate in any capacity, whether as combatant or noncombatant."

    Hinzman's lawyer estimated as many as 100 American war resisters are hiding in Canada, waiting to see how Hinzman's case is played out before coming forward.

    During the Vietnam era, young American men could be drafted into military service, but now enlistment in U.S. military is voluntary. The military attracts many young recruits with job skills training and programs that help pay for university.

    Five of the eight men publicly seeking asylum in Canada attended an anti-war rally, where two dozen protesters shouted anti-American slogans across from the U.S. Consulate in downtown Toronto. They were Hinzman; Joshua Key, 26, of Oklahoma City; Dave Sanders, 20, a Navy deserter who had been underground in Canada since March of 2003; Cliff Cornell, 24, from Mountain Home, Arkansas; and Darrell Anderson, an Army soldier who served seven months in Iraq last year.

    "I was faced with situations where, if I followed orders, I would have killed innocent people," Anderson, 22, told the crowd. "I refused to do that."



  2. #2
    Forum Member Smoke20286's Avatar
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    I have to agree. Vietnam was a completely different situation, where the draft was employed. The US Army is now all volunteer, if you dont want to fight for your country, don't join. You dont get to just fight in the wars you agree with.

    It would be like a firefighter taking the job for the pay check, and then refusing to go to any fires because they are too dangerous.
    A'int No Rocket Scientist's in The Firehall

  3. #3
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    Those who went to Canada during Viet Nam were also cowards. Gutless cowards. They spit in the face of the tens of thousands of men and women who gave their lives so their snivelling little butts had the freedoms they enjoyed.

  4. #4
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Originally posted by GeorgeWendtCFI
    Those who went to Canada during Viet Nam were also cowards. Gutless cowards. They spit in the face of the tens of thousands of men and women who gave their lives so their snivelling little butts had the freedoms they enjoyed.
    You're right. Instead of running to Canada, they should have done what Cheney, Ashcroft, Limbaugh or Gingrich did. Get numerous deferments.

    Or got their daddy to get them into the National Guard like Bush and then not show up.

    Who spit in whose face? I forget.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  5. #5
    Forum Member ThNozzleman's Avatar
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    Who spit in whose face? I forget.
    Let's see...I believe it was Kerry who was the decorated veteran that George constantly spit on, while supporting the frat boy dodger who hid out in TX.

  6. #6
    Forum Member SPIPER's Avatar
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    Your new home mutt.
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Steve
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    SUA SPONTE
    "I've got no respect for any young man who won't join the colors."
    ~Gen. Nathan Bedford Forrest, CSA

  7. #7
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Originally posted by SPIPER
    Your new home mutt.
    No one's shooting at them there.

    Doesn't sound like such a bad deal.

    Gotta love the motto on the monument.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  8. #8
    MembersZone Subscriber MalahatTwo7's Avatar
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    Originally posted by scfire86


    Gotta love the motto on the monument.
    No Poop on the boots there eh? PLUS! 3 squares a day, a dry bunk... what more could a guy as for? Oh .. and rent is paid by someone else!
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    John Kerry was a decortated veteran that came home and threw is medals - no wait - somebody elses medals in the garbage. Although I do respect his service in the war, that was just about the ultimate insult to war vets all over the country. That man is just a disgusting worthless puke.

  10. #10
    Forum Member SPIPER's Avatar
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    Kerry's Job Application





    JOB APPLICATION
    NAME: John Kerry
    RESIDENCE: 7 mansions, including Washington, DC, worth multimillions.

    EDUCATION AND EXPERIENCE:

    Law Enforcement. I voted to cut every law enforcement, CIA and defense bill in my career as a US Senator. I ordered Boston to remove a fire hydrant which I considered unsightly, in front of my mansion, thereby endangering my neighbors in the event of fire.

    MILITARY:
    I used three minor injuries to get an early discharge from the military and service in Vietnam. I then returned to the US, joined Jane Fonda in protesting the war, and insulted returning Vietnam vets, claiming they committed atrocities and were baby killers. I threw my medals, ribbons, or something away in protest. Or did I? My book; Vietnam Veterans Against the War: The New Soldier shows how I truly feel about the military. I deplore the military!

    COLLEGE:
    I graduated from Yale University with a low C average. Unlike my counterpart George Bush, I have no higher education and did not get admitted to Harvard nor graduate with an M.B.A

    PAST WORK EXPERIENCE:
    I ran for U.S. Congress and have been there ever since. I have no real world experience except that of a gigolo, by marrying rich women and running HJ Heinz vicariously through my wife Teresa.

    ACCOMPLISHMENTS:
    As a US Senator I set the record for the most liberal voting record, exceeding even Ted Kennedy and Hillary Clinton. I have consistently failed to support our military and CIA by voting against budgets, thus gutting our country's ability to defend itself. Although I voted for the Iraq War, now I am against it and refuse to admit that I voted for it. I voted for every liberal piece of legislation. I have no plan to help this country but I intend to raise taxes significantly if I am elected.

    My wealth so far exceeds that of my counterpart, George Bush, that he will never catch up. I make no or little charitable contributions and have never agreed to pay any voluntary excess taxes in MA, despite family wealth in excess of $700 million.

    I (we) own 28 manufacturing plants (Heinz) outside of the U.S. in places like Asia, Mexico and Europe. We can make more profit from the cheaper cost of labor in those Countries, although blame George Bush for sending all of the jobs out of Country.

    Although I claim to be in favor of alternative energy sources, Ted Kennedy and I oppose windmills off Nantucket and Martha's Vineyard as it might spoil our view of the ocean as we cruise on our yachts.

    RECORDS AND REFERENCES:
    None.

    PERSONAL
    I ride a Serotta Bike.

    My Gulfstream V Jet I call The Flying Squirrel.

    I call my $850,000 42-foot Hinckley twin diesel yacht the "Scarmouche."

    I am fascinated by rap and hip-hop and feel it reflects our real culture.

    I own several "Large" SUVs including one parked at my Nantucket summer mansion, though I am against large polluting inefficient vehicles and blame George Bush for the energy problems.

    PLEASE CONSIDER MY EXPERIENCE
    Steve
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    ~Gen. Nathan Bedford Forrest, CSA

  11. #11
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    GEORGE W. BUSH RESUME
    The White House, USA

    * ACCOMPLISHMENTS AS PRESIDENT:
    * I attacked and took over two countries.
    * I spent the U.S. surplus and bankrupted the Treasury.
    * I shattered the record for biggest annual deficit in history.
    * I set an economic record for most private bankruptcies filed in any 12-month period.
    * I set all-time record for biggest drop in the history of the stock market.
    * I am the first president in decades to execute a federal prisoner.
    * I am the first president in US history to enter office with a criminal record.
    * In my first year in office I set the all-time record for most days on vacation by any president in US history.
    * After taking the entire month of August off for vacation, I presided over the worst security failure in US history.
    * I set the record for most campaign fund raising trips by any president in US history.
    * In my first two years in office over 2 million Americans lost their job.
    * I cut unemployment benefits for more out-of-work Americans than any other president in US history.
    * I set the all-time record for most foreclosures in a 12-month period.
    * I appointed more convicted criminals to administration positions than any president in US history.
    * I set the record for the fewest press conferences of any president since the advent of TV.
    * I signed more laws and executive orders amending the Constitution than any other president in US history.
    * I presided over the biggest energy crises in US history and refused to intervene when corruption was revealed.
    * I presided over the highest gasoline prices in US history and refused to use the national reserves as past presidents have.
    * I cut health care benefits for war veterans.
    * I set the all-time record for most people worldwide to simultaneously take to the streets to protest me (15 million people), shattering the record for protest against any person in the history of mankind.
    * I dissolved more international treaties than any president in US history.
    * I've made my presidency the most secretive and unaccountable of any in US history.
    * Members of my cabinet are the richest of any administration in US history. (The 'poorest' multimillionaire, Condoleeza Rice, has a Chevron oil tanker named after her).
    * I am the first president in US history to have all 50 states of the Union simultaneously go bankrupt.
    * I presided over the biggest corporate stock market fraud in any market in any country in the history of the world.
    * I am the first president in US history to order a US attack and military occupation of a sovereign nation, and I did so against the will of the United Nations and the world community.
    * I have created the largest government department bureaucracy in the history of the United States.
    * I set the all-time record for biggest annual budget spending increases, more than any other president in US history.
    * I am the first president in US history to have the United Nations remove the US from the Human Rights Commission.
    * I am the first president in US history to have the United Nations remove the US from the Elections Monitoring Board.
    * I removed more checks and balances, and have the least amount of congressional oversight than any presidential administration in US history.
    * I rendered the entire United Nations irrelevant.
    * I withdrew from the World Court of Law.
    * I refused to allow inspectors access to US prisoners of war and by default no longer abide by the Geneva Conventions.
    * I am the first president in US history to refuse United Nations election inspectors access during the 2002 US elections.
    * I am the all-time US (and world) record holder for most corporate campaign donations.
    * The biggest lifetime contributor to my campaign, who is also one of my best friends, presided over one of the largest corporate bankruptcy frauds in world history (Kenneth Lay, former CEO of Enron Corporation).
    * I spent more money on polls and focus groups than any president in US history.
    * I am the first president to run and hide when the US came under attack (and then lied, saying the enemy had the code to Air Force 1)
    * I am the first US president to establish a secret shadow government.
    * I took the world's sympathy for the US after 911, and in less than a year made the US the most resented country in the world (possibly the biggest diplomatic failure in US and world history).
    * I am the first US president in history to have a majority of the people of Europe (71%) view my presidency as the biggest threat to world peace and stability.
    * I am the first US president in history to have the people of South Korea more threatened by the US than by their immediate neighbor, North Korea.
    * I changed US policy to allow convicted criminals to be awarded government contracts.
    * I set the all-time record for number of administration appointees who violated US law by not selling their huge investments in corporations bidding for gov't contracts.
    * I have removed more freedoms and civil liberties for Americans than any other president in US history. In a little over two years I have created the most divided country in decades, possibly the most divided that the US has been since the civil war.
    * I entered office with the strongest economy in US history and in less than two years turned every single economic category heading straight down.


    * RECORDS AND REFERENCES:
    * I have at least one conviction for drunk driving in Maine (Texas driving record has been erased and is not available).
    * I was AWOL from the National Guard and deserted the military during a time of war.
    * I refuse to take a drug test or even answer any questions about drug use.
    * All records of my tenure as governor of Texas have been spirited away to my fatherĻs library, sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public view.
    * All records of any SEC investigations into my insider trading or bankrupt companies are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public view.
    * All minutes of meetings of any public corporation for which I served on the board are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public view.
    * Any records or minutes from meetings I (or my VP) attended regarding public energy policy are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public review.

    * PERSONAL REFERENCES:
    * For personal references, please speak to my dad or uncle James Baker (They can be reached in their offices at the Carlyle Group where they are helping to divide up the spoils of the US-Iraq war and plan for the next one.)
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  12. #12
    Forum Member Smoke20286's Avatar
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    Boy, this thread got political in a hurry
    A'int No Rocket Scientist's in The Firehall

  13. #13
    Forum Member DaSharkie's Avatar
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    Ft. Leavenworth, Kansas.

    Where you get to break big rocks into little rocks. Little rocks into littler rocks. Littler rocks into gravel.

    Gotta love it. No recidivism rate there. Punishment at hard labor truly means hard labor. No coddling, no ACLU, punishment for your crime.

    I can pretty much gaurantee you that a deserter from a unit will not be liked too highly by those on either side of the bars. Especially if a guy who served in combat is there and finds a deserter.

    You signed a contract bucko, deal with the consequences of making an adult decision.
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  14. #14
    Forum Member ThNozzleman's Avatar
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    You signed a contract bucko, deal with the consequences of making an adult decision.
    Yeah! Wait a minute; are you talking about Bush or the other guy?

  15. #15
    Forum Member DaSharkie's Avatar
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    To remove the waste of time politics brings into this, I am talking about the precious little child who chose to not live up to his commitment as an adult and deserted his friends and comrades while they deployed to combat areas without friends or family, and he went to Canada with his family.

    I respect a person for standing up for themselves and what they believe, but not for this. I hope the Canadians kick him and everyone else that has fled there back down here so we can try them for their actions.

    This is not a case of setting an example, this is a case of breaking the law and receiving punishment for those actions..........

    Big rocks, into little rocks. All day, every day.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

    The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

    "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

    www.daveramsey.com www.clarkhoward.com www.heritage.org

  16. #16
    MembersZone Subscriber mcaldwell's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Smoke20286
    Boy, this thread got political in a hurry
    Was there ever any doubt that it would??

    Anyway, I got a chuckle out of the Bush Resume.
    Never argue with an Idiot. They drag you down to their level, and then beat you with experience!

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  17. #17
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Originally posted by mcaldwell


    Anyway, I got a chuckle out of the Bush Resume.
    This is the part of the Kerry resume' I liked.

    Originally posted by SPIPER
    Kerry's Job Application
    COLLEGE:
    I graduated from Yale University with a low C average. Unlike my counterpart George Bush, I have no higher education and did not get admitted to Harvard nor graduate with an M.B.A
    I guess where SPIPER is from, graduating from Yale and having a law degree from Boston College doesn't count as higher education.

    Only reinforcing his own ignorance, and explaining why he supports someone who skewers the English language.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  18. #18
    55 Years & Still Rolling hwoods's Avatar
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    Talking Yeah, Right.................

    Originally posted by scfire86
    I guess where SPIPER is from, graduating from Yale and having a law degree from Boston College doesn't count as higher education.

    I can't speak for SPiper, But I don't call that higher education, or shall I say, education on a higher plane? I mean, look at the "Ivy League" School's Engineering abilities. Cambridge, (or was it M.I.T.) had a group of Aeronautical Engineering Professors who built an Airplane. The darn thing never got off the ground. It couldn't fly!! No wonder, when you looked at it, one HUGE Left wing, and no Right wing.
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    Takes all kinds.

  20. #20
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Default Re: Yeah, Right.................

    Originally posted by hwoods



    I can't speak for SPiper, But I don't call that higher education, or shall I say, education on a higher plane? I mean, look at the "Ivy League" School's Engineering abilities. Cambridge, (or was it M.I.T.) had a group of Aeronautical Engineering Professors who built an Airplane. The darn thing never got off the ground. It couldn't fly!! No wonder, when you looked at it, one HUGE Left wing, and no Right wing.
    Very funny joke. Even funnier considering that Cambridge isn't in the Ivy League. It's not even in the U.S. It's in ENGLAND!!!

    But it was a funny joke.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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