1. #1
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    Default nfpa for eye protection

    Can anyone email me the actual NFPA standard for eye protection. Just wondering what the real ruling on faceshields and goggles are. I am trying to show the chief the actual standard and cant find it anywhere. we are issued 1010's with faceshields now and I thought that they were only secondary eye protection. I would like to facilitate the switch from faceshields to goggles on our helmets. Thank you

    jjamentojr at snet dot net

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    Don't have the standard in front of me, but I believe this is how it works:

    Faceshield only - NFPA
    Goggles only - NFPA
    Bourkes only - not NFPA
    Bourkes with goggles - NFPA

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    do a google search of "NFPA standard eye protection" This is the first thing that will pop up:

    http://www.essgoggles.com/uploads/NFPA_Overview.pdf

    CURRENT EYE PROTECTION STANDARDS
    American National Standards Institute, Practice for Occupational and Educational Eye and Face Protection Standard Z87.1-1979 (ANSI Z87.1)
    Both OSHA and NFPA 1500 standards reference ANSI Z87.1 as the benchmark standard for occupational eye and face protection. Sections 9&10 include the
    specific standards for evaluating factors such as impact resistance, lens thickness, projectile penetration, and optical quality. Departments should only use
    protective eyewear marked “Z87”; this indicates that the product has met ANSI Z87.1 standards. When NFPA 1500 standards reference ANSI Z87.1, they
    specifically require primary eye protection. ANSI Z87.1 is very clear in its description of primary versus secondary eye protection:
    Definitions Primary Protector – A device which may be worn alone or in conjunction with a secondary protector.
    Secondary Protector – A device which shall be worn only in conjunction with a primary protector.
    Faceshield - A protective device commonly intended to shield the wearer’s face, or portions thereof, in addition to the eyes, from certain
    hazards. Faceshields are secondary protectors and shall be used only with primary protectors.
    Goggle - A protective device intended to fit the face immediately surrounding the eyes to shield the eyes from a variety of hazards.
    Section 10.1 …While are primary protectors and may be used alone, they may also be used in conjunction with the other protectors.

    NFPA 1500 Fire Department Occupational Safety and Health Program, 1997 edition
    NFPA 1500 is the U.S. Fire Service’s official guide for procedures and proper equipment use. Section 5-10 Eye and Face Protection sends a clear message
    that appropriate primary eye protection must be provided and worn:
    5-10.1 Primary face and eye protection appropriate for a given specific hazard shall be provided and used by members exposed to that specific hazard.
    Such primary face and eye protection shall meet the requirements of ANSI Z87.1.
    5-10.2 The full facepiece of SCBA shall constitute face and eye protection when worn. SCBA that has a facepiece-mounted regulator that, when
    disconnected, provides a direct path for flying objects to strike the face or eyes, shall have the regulator attached in order to be considered eye and
    face protection.
    5-10.3 When operating in the hazardous area at an emergency scene without the full facepiece of respiratory protection being worn, members shall deploy
    the goggles for eye protection.
    NFPA 1971 Standard on Protective Ensemble for Structural Fire Fighting, 2000 edition (NFPA 1971-2000)
    This is the U.S. Fire Service’s official guide to minimum standards for protective ensemble elements. According to NFPA 1971-2000, eye protection is a
    component of the helmet element, and either a goggle or a faceshield must be attached to each structural helmet at all times.
    4-2.2 Protective Helmet Design Requirements. Helmets for structural fire fighting shall consist of at least the following assembled components:
    (6) Either a faceshield, or goggles, or both
    1-3.37 Definition: Faceshield. The helmet component intended to help protect a portion of the wearer’s face in addition to the eyes, not intended as
    primary eye protection.
    1-3.50 Definition: Goggles. The helmet component intended to help protect the wearer’s eyes and a portion of the wearer’s face, not intended as primary
    eye protection.
    Primary eye protection is required by NFPA 1500, so these definitions beg the question: “What products does NFPA 1971-2000 intend as primary eye
    protection?” This standard does not explicitly answer that question, so one has to logically assume that the same ANSI Z.87.1 primary eye protection
    standards referenced by NFPA 1500 are applicable. A review of ANSI Z.87.1 makes it clear that a faceshield can never be primary eye protection, while ANSI
    Z87.1-compliant goggles are primary eye protection for “appropriate hazards” such as projectiles and splashes.
    NFPA 1971-2000, Section 5-2, Protective Helmets Performance Requirements, details the performance requirements that an eye protection system must meet
    to be compliant with this standard. These standards go beyond ANSI Z87.1, in an effort to address the unique performance needs required of protective
    eyewear that will be permanently attached a structural fire helmet. For a helmet to be NFPA 1971-2000 compliant, it must have a faceshield or goggle
    attached that can satisfy these performance requirements. Eye protection that complies is marked “NFPA 1971-2000.”
    Federal Occupational Safety and Health Administration Regulations - OSHA Standards – 29 CFR, Eye and Face Protection – 1910.133
    The OSHA standards are very consistent with NFPA 1500, in stating that appropriate ANSI Z87.1 primary eye protection must be provided to employees.
    Sec. (a) (1) The employer shall ensure that each affected employee uses appropriate eye or face protection when exposed to eye or face hazards from flying
    particles, molten metal, liquid chemicals, acids or caustic fluids, chemical gases or vapors, or potentially injurious light radiation.
    Sec. (a) (2) The employer shall ensure that each affected employee uses eye protection that provides side protection when there is a hazard from flying objects.
    Sec. (a) (3) The employer shall ensure that each affected employee who wears prescription lenses while engaged in operations that involve eye hazards wears
    eye protection that incorporates the prescription in its design, or wears eye protection that can be worn over the prescription lenses without
    disturbing the proper position of the prescription lenses or the protective lenses.
    Sec. (b) (1) Protective eye and face devices purchased after July 5, 1994 shall comply with ANSI Z87.1-1989, “American National Standard Practice for
    Occupational and Educational Eye and Face Protection,” which is incorporated by reference as specified in Sec. 1910.6.
    SO HOW CAN MY DEPARTMENT SELECT EYE PROTECTION THAT WILL COMPLY WITH ALL OSHA AND NFPA STANDARDS?
    There are exactly two equipment systems that departments can use to comply with all of these eye protection standards. By issuing one of these
    systems, and instituting policies for proper use, departments can effectively minimize their exposure to potentially career-ending injuries, lost time,
    insurance claims, and personal injury liability:
    1) Goggles that meet ANSI Z87.1 and NFPA 1971-2000 standards
    2) Faceshields that meet NFPA 1971-2000, AND goggles meeting ANSI Z87.1
    If my basic HazMat training has taught me nothing else, it's that if you see a glowing green monkey running away from something, follow that monkey!

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    I am trying to show the chief the actual standard and cant find it anywhere.
    www.nfpa.org Look for 1500. It might cost you a couple dollars to get it.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    This topic has been hashed out a number of times, but here is the short version:

    1. For a helmet to be NFPA compliant, it must have a faceshield or goggles ATTACHED. The faceshield or goggles must be from the manufacturer of the helmet. Bourke flip-down shields are NOT NFPA or OSHA compliant by themselves. From a regulatory and safety standpoint, they are just ornamental.
    2. There may be situations where "eye protection" is required by OSHA (not NFPA). Faceshields do NOT meet the standards of eye protection; goggles do. If your helmet has a faceshield, you must wear safety glasses or goggles under it if you "need eye protection."
    My comments are sometimes educated, sometimes informed and sometimes just blowing smoke...but they are always mine and mine alone and do not reflect upon anyone else (especially my employer).

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    I am trying to show the chief the actual standard and cant find it anywhere
    My advice? Purchase a copy (or two) for the station's library. It is readily available on the NFPA website.

    NFPA 1500: Standard on Fire Department Occupational Safety and Health Program, 2002 edition.

    The cost? $33.50 each

    Click here!

    Chapter 7 deals with "Protective Clothing and Protective Equipment"
    Proudly serving as the IACOJ Minister of Information & Propoganda!
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    Bourke flip-down shields are NOT NFPA or OSHA compliant by themselves. From a regulatory and safety standpoint, they are just ornamental.
    Perhaps I missed something but I've had 3 helmets with different Departments that came with Bourkes and they were all OSHA certified...or at least thats what the stickers and pamphlets said. I've used them many times and are far from "ornamental".

    FTM-PTB

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    Originally posted by FFFRED


    Perhaps I missed something but I've had 3 helmets with different Departments that came with Bourkes and they were all OSHA certified...or at least thats what the stickers and pamphlets said. I've used them many times and are far from "ornamental".

    FTM-PTB
    The helmet was OSHA rated; the eye protection was not. Bourke shields offer no rated eye or face protection. None. They are ornamental...traditional looking and cool, but ornamental nonetheless from a safety standpoint.

    Goggles meet ANSI standards for eye protection; faceshields meet ANSI standards for secondary eye protection. If you want Bourkes on your helmet, carry goggles or safety glasses in your coat.
    My comments are sometimes educated, sometimes informed and sometimes just blowing smoke...but they are always mine and mine alone and do not reflect upon anyone else (especially my employer).

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    They are ornamental...traditional looking and cool, but ornamental nonetheless from a safety standpoint.
    I see. I'll have to look at the paper work again but I don't doubt what you are stating regarding the helmet as being OSHA compliant.

    What then are OSHA's requirement's for eye protection? If a N6A is only NFPA compliant with NFPA eye protection (you can get a N6A with Bourkes, however it isn't NFPA compliant) then how can they sell a helmet and state it meets OSHA requirements? Does OSHA say nothing about eye protection? I can't imagine they don't.

    However I will question your volly-buff nonsense about them "looking cool" or traditional.

    They are on my helmet for one reason and one reason only...to protect my eyes and they do just fine at that. I don't go to work to be or look cool, I go to work to pay the bills and do my job and see that me and my brothers all go home at the end of the tour...period.

    Are they the worst thing no...are they the best thing..no. But my pockets are filled and I don't need to be fumbling through goggles to get to my Linemans pliers to cut myself free from an entanglement...I don't need to be fumbing through my goggles to get to my personal rope(since the job stopped issuing them I have my own) to bail out when the sh*t hits the fan.

    Lester Bourke of Brooklyn's Ladder 120 invented them after many different tries and I can assure you back then the helmet "traditionally" didn't have ANY eye protection. At the time(1960s-70s) L-120 was running more fires in a year than most of anyones depts sees in 10 years and just because it wasn't some consortium of helmet manufactures and desk jockey cheifs doesn't mean it is a decent & dependable accessory. These brothers who went to a working fire almost everyday they worked thought this was a strong, dependable form of eye protection that didn't make the helmet unbalanced or would break often. They would cut roofs, roll down doors, locks, pull ceilings, force doors.... Thats good enough for me.

    If you can or want to wear NFPA compliant goggles...that is your right and no one should look down on you for doing so. However...

    Wherever you clowns got the idea those Bourkes are for "looking cool" or "traditonal Looks" is way beyond me.

    FTM-PTB
    Last edited by FFFRED; 04-02-2005 at 03:12 PM.

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    Originally posted by FFFRED


    I see. I'll have to look at the paper work again but I don't doubt what you are stating regarding the helmet as being OSHA compliant.

    What then are OSHA's requirement's for eye protection? If a N6A is only NFPA compliant with NFPA eye protection (you can get a N6A with Bourkes, however it isn't NFPA compliant) then how can they sell a helmet and state it meets OSHA requirements? Does OSHA say nothing about eye protection? I can't imagine they don't.

    However I will question your volly-buff nonsense about them "looking cool" or traditional.

    They are on my helmet for one reason and one reason only...to protect my eyes and they do just fine at that. I don't go to work to be or look cool, I go to work to pay the bills and do my job and see that me and my brothers all go home at the end of the tour...period.

    Are they the worst thing no...are they the best thing..no. But my pockets are filled and I don't need to be fumbling through goggles to get to my Linemans pliers to cut myself free from an entanglement...I don't need to be fumbing through my goggles to get to my personal rope(since the job stopped issuing them I have my own) to bail out when the sh*t hits the fan.

    Lester Bourke of Brooklyn's Ladder 120 invented them after many different tries and I can assure you back then the helmet "traditionally" didn't have ANY eye protection. At the time(1960s-70s) L-120 was running more fires in a year than most of anyones depts sees in 10 years and just because it wasn't some consortium of helmet manufactures and desk jockey cheifs doesn't mean it is a decent & dependable accessory.

    Wherever you clowns got the idea those Bourkes are for "looking cool" or "traditonal Looks" is way beyond me.

    FTM-PTB
    First, OSHA (actually, ANSI) does not write standards for fire helmets. Thus there is no federal standard for combined head/eye protection, like on your fire helmet. OSHA has seperate requirements for head protection and eye protection, both of which are ANSI standards. If an employer determines his work environment requires head or eye protection, then it must meet ANSI standards. The voluntary NFPA standards require that the two be combined and that the eye protection (primary or secondary) be attached to the helmet. The helmet must also endure more than the ANSI tests for impact resistance.

    And, regardless of how you may justify it to yourself, the Bourkes are not "eye protection," anymore than a pane of window glass held in front of your face is "eye protection." I know my Bourkes (yeah, I got some on my helmet too) were pretty much opaque after the 3rd or 4th fire. How much eye protection can something offer if you can't see through it? The faceshields have the same problem...just not as quick. But NFPA requires the faceshield (or goggles). So, how can the Bourkes be anything but ornamental?

    Claiming Bourkes are good eye protection is not any different than if you decided to wear an aluminum helmet from the 1960s, since it protected heads then and does "just fine at that." Standards and expecetations change. While 30 years ago, Bourkes were better than nothing...now there are much better options for protecting your eyes. Heck, a good pair of $30 sunglasses will actually provide better eye protection than Bourke-style shields.

    That's not "volly-buff nonsense." That's reality...sorry.
    My comments are sometimes educated, sometimes informed and sometimes just blowing smoke...but they are always mine and mine alone and do not reflect upon anyone else (especially my employer).

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