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Thread: Standpipe Opps

  1. #21
    MembersZone Subscriber mcaldwell's Avatar
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    Our "High-rises" are more "mid-rises" by city standards (5-7 stories), and both systems are combined, but up here it is Sprinklers first for few reasons:

    1. When equipped with a sprinkler, the building's system always puts out more fire than we do.

    2. The sprinkler system protects the egresses and defends potential victims while we make entry and find/connect to the standpipe.

    3. When faced with a water deficiency, the sprinkler usually needs less flow and pressure than the standpipe.

    But I'm not going to argue with a city dept who is still successful the other way. And back to the first question:

    First due on FDC. If we are short manpower, we can contain and almost always extinguish the fire that way alone.
    Never argue with an Idiot. They drag you down to their level, and then beat you with experience!

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  2. #22
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    if anyone is interested in how we do it:

    http://sageauthoring.com/fdny/ft&p/ftpeng09.pdf


    don't think it says who does what as for positions. 1st due ECC hooks up to system w/ help from 2nd due ECC not usually far behind depending. Nozzle, back-up, doorman(my co. is 5 man engine) grab a roll-up each and the control FF grabs a roll-up and standpipe kit. Officer has his tool. Truck secures elevators and the OV should stay in elevator to operate in Fireman service. 1st due emgine makes their way to floor below the fire and hooks up to standpipe. The way we do it is kinda like doing a backstretch off the rig but from the floor below.

  3. #23
    firefighter7160
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    1st due Engine hooks into the line, And crew gos to size up the fire. 2nd due lays from the plug to the 1st due if needed (most plugs are next to the standpipe). 2nd and 3rd Engines are manpower and equipment (2 highrise packs, hand tools, extra bottles) and go right to the fire. 1st ladder sets up and ladders the fire floor our below the floor. 2nd ladder is RIT. The 1st engine charges the pipe with tank water. The tallest building here is 12 floors, small to most citys.

  4. #24
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    we got 3 30 story buildings in my 1st due area and a couple of 10's 12's 15's but mostly 6 story walk-up tenements and brownstones.

  5. #25
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    Default Standpipe Ops

    As a reply to the original question, does the first company go as a whole to the attack or do they supply the FDC?
    What type of buildings ususally have Standpipe systems? Class 1 or 2. Where is the fire going? Most times in these structures the fire will usually be contained on the floor of origin. YOU HAVE TIME! A Standpipe operation should not be conducted without the use of 2 engine companies...period. So if the first due company goes to the floor below and starts setting up, the second due companie's driver can start setting up water supply while the rest of the crew hooks up with the first due company and gets the initial hoseline in service.. Now this is not written in stone, and it will depend on manpower settings and the travel distance of the incoming companies. For the guys who are now going to say that in no way can they wait for the manpower my answer is this: when did you ever attack a standpipe equipped building by yourselves? Weather you assign 2 engine companies for the initial attack line, or it happens by default because folks just show up, you WILL have the manpower. Get that initial hoseline in service. The officer's should NOT be setting up the hoseline, but scouting out the floor below for the layout, and the fire floor itself if possible to see how much hose will be needed and the conditions ( this is definatly one fire that and officer should truly be an officer and not a back up firefighter). Maybe 2 side by side hoselines would be needed. Most of the buidings that have standpipes will be ovens. Case after case shows that by the time you get set up, the fire can be out of the realm and capablility of the "do it all hoseline" ( you know the one, we pull it all the time, a 1.75" line). Inline guages and 2 1/2" lines with smoothbore nozzles are the recomended choice according to NFPA 14.
    Get the rig hooked to the FDC, confirm water supply, and take a second to save many, and then attack the fire.
    To the gentleman who asked about using LDH, I think he answered all his own questions, but one last point....do you want to put all your eggs in one basket? A LDH supply line is very impressive when it blows! More importantly you will lose your supply. Going into a Standpipe operation is like standing on a ledge with one foot off and the other on a banana peel. There is too much going against us. Use smoothbores, big lines, inline guages and LOTS OF MANPOWER. Check the writings of Chief David McGrail, Denver FD; LT. Ray McCormack , FDNY; and the late LT. Andrew Frredericks, FDNY for super articles and information. FDIC has a great standpipe program also. Stay safe Bros [/FONT]
    ROOFMAN

  6. #26
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    On my last department, which had 3-5 story hotels, office buildings and college dorms in it's district, the SOP was for the first due engine to hit the sprinkler system. If they were the only company on scene, they would go up and investigate. Search and fire attack (bringing up the high-rise kit) would be assigned to later arriving companies if there was a fire. All of our systems used a single connection for sprinkler and standpipe, so we never had to make that choice. Only the buildings located on the same hill with the water tower had a pump because of the low sysstem pressure there.

    Search and fire attack teams would haul up high-rise kits. Search team was required to have a line if there was active fire, so they would make connections and be a assigned 1 of the 2 1.75"s. Fire attack would be assigned the other.

    In the 17 years I was there, we did not have a single fire where the sprinkler system did not extinguish it prior to our arrival. We were a big believer in letting the system do the job for us. All of our buildings that had a standpipe system also had a sprinkler system, with the exception of the college dorms. they have since been retrofitted with sprinklers.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 12-09-2006 at 05:10 PM.

  7. #27
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    1st in Engine hits the connection while the crew heads to the fire floor, 2nd due Engine also connects and it's crew heads to the fire floor for manpower and extra lines.

  8. #28
    Forum Member WBenner's Avatar
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    Our first in Engine to the front of the building if connections are there then the Engineer/ Driver will connect FDC. The Capt and Firefighter will go to fire floor for possible rescue. The Firefighter has a Hose Kit and the Capt has the Irons.They connect on floor below and then do a quick interior size up. However if the FDC is not located on the A side the 2nd in due engine grabs the FDC and grabbed the hydrant as well. Where composite so the vollies respond in their POV to the scene. Works for us. 1st in engine always prepares for rescue and water second. We do not use the solid bore nozzles how ever combination fog. Not saying this is right But I like our method.

  9. #29
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    Ist due engine crew & officer to floor below the fire with tools & high rise kits, make connection to standpipe and flake out. Ist due chauffer connects to FDC while crew is heading up. 2nd due hydrant man and chauffer- water supply while FF & Officer head up with tools and hose packs( Hydrant man goes up with hose pack after getting water. Ist due truck crew(2 men) goes inside( force entry, vent ,search, etc), bucket man and chauffer set up truck and ladder, unless fire is up too high. Rescue inside for search, force entry, etc. DC Aide - elevators. 2nd due truck inside/outside as DC sees fit.

  10. #30
    firefighter7160
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    First Due Engine will go right into building. The CO with 1 FF will go find out what we got and what we need. If a true fire, the rest of the crew will go to the fire floor, with there high rise equipment. Second Due Engine gets the plug. Two Ladder Companies vent and go to the roof. Third Due Engine go's into help the First Due Company.

    ---Also, if a true fire a forth or fifth Engine will be called in.

    www.PineBluffFire.com
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  11. #31
    MembersZone Subscriber Salman1's Avatar
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    Question Standpipe kit/Officer's bag

    What does your dept. include in the standpipe kit or officer's bag and what are you using for the bag? I've completed a program for our dept. and we've purchased Bucket Boss bags (Gate Mouth Jr.) for our various fittings ie. reducers, rope, wire brush, valve wheel etc...Also, does anyone utilize an inline guage for their standpipe operation's? I was considering it but a few "higher up's" thought they weren't necessary. I disagree completely...

  12. #32
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    No bag for the high rise pack. Hook up man has the spare wheels, reducers, and spanner tied onto his hose pack near the coupling. Hook up man also carries the irons in, so it would be a pain in the a## to carry a whole seperate bag. Works for us.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave1983 View Post
    Just curious how other departments handle standpipe operations in hi-rise buildings.

    Our county SOG is for the first due engine company too abandon the rig, and have the entire crew go to the fire floor. The second due is too supply the system.

    I dont agree with this at all. I belive the engineer from the first due should supply the system while the rest of the crew goes in.

    My thought here is, if you follow the SOG, your putting your entire crew at the mercy of the buildings system. I look at this way, I would rather have 3 FFs on the floor and know I have water then too have 4 and hope I do. Keep in mind, this SOG makes no allowences for buildings with standpipes but no fire pump.

    Am I wrong here? Is this how everyone else does it?

    BTW, we get 4 paid engines on the first alarm to a hi-rise, so a delay due to volunteer staffing is not an issue.
    1) stage the engine companies on the floor below and stretch to the fire floor
    2) 1st due engine supplies the standpipe
    3) Rule of thumb is: 1 engine per line in operation
    4) 2 1/2" handline with 1 1/8" smoth bore
    5) Pressure gauge on discharbe outlet
    6) Supplying pumper gets one line into siamese then the other when operator has time
    7) Good luck!

  14. #34
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    All of these things considered; don't forget we gear our operations for what could reasonably go wrong, and not for the routine fire. History has shown that stuff happens. i.e- contractors working in bldg, bldg under renovation/ construction and attendant increase in fireload. Re: sprinklers-if the sprinklers fail (4% of the time), good chance the s-pipe is compromised too. Think the Hi-rise fire in Philly, or the "blow torch effect fire" in NY a few years back. All of these things can and do happen. The principal of having our own permanent water supply is sound in hi-rises as well.

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