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  1. #1
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    Default FDNY Getting Hurt??

    What do you think about the FDNY Brothers always getting hurt lately in the past year??


    I am not trying to start and rant and rave, or getting anyone mad at me. I am just asking what everyone thinks...


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    Question Huh?

    Because that is what happens when you go to fires??? Guys get injured.

    FTM-PTB

  3. #3
    Forum Member SpartanGuy's Avatar
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    Thousands of firefighters, thousands of 'jobs'. Chances are high.

    Honestly, I'd expect more FDNY guys to get hurt. I'm thankful to god that it's as low as it is. Says a lot to their training and skill.
    "Captain 1 to control, retone this as a structure and notify the fire chief...."

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    Default Re: FDNY Getting Hurt??

    Originally posted by fightn15
    What do you think about the FDNY Brothers always getting hurt lately in the past year??


    I am not trying to start and rant and rave, or getting anyone mad at me. I am just asking what everyone thinks...
    Uh ... What exactly are you getting at? Are you trying to stir the pot? Please give me some insight on why you would throw this question out there. I really don't think that our LOD injury rate is all that different than past years. What would make you think that more members are getting injured in the last year? What difference would it make if it was? I'm really curious to why you would ask.

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    Well I just noticed recently all the articles on FDNY Members getting hurt. Recently the 5 or 6 that jumped out of the building, the auto parts fire, the playground, etc. don't get me wrong, i got alot of respect for FDNY. It was just a question, not trying to stir the pot. Believe me, we dont have as many guys at FDNY, but we got over 200. We used to get fires all the time but with our Fire Prevention Division doing such a wonderful job, we get a fire maybe once or twice a month.

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    I understand the question. Yes, FDNY runs alot of fire calls, and they have extensive knowledge and background in this area, some would say more than any other dept in the world.
    But an outsider might look at the numbers and wonder why are there so many injuries?
    Are they inline with national stats when adjusted per capita/volume of calls?
    Are they more aggressive, making decisions that other depts don't make, and is this good or bad?Could it be an example of
    "100 years of tradition, unhindered by progress"? Or just a busy dept?
    If the injury rate is higher, what could be the cause?If they have a lower injury rate, what are they doing differently?
    An interesting discussion could occur, but there may be too much animosity for questioning the practices of the FDNY, which deservedly has an excellent reputation..
    "Don't just do something, stand there!!!"

  7. #7
    Forum Member BFDNJFF's Avatar
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    Default

    sounds like someones doing a little useless
    and deserves a

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    Default along these lines

    I am not saying they did anything wrong i am just wondering from the story

    Heckscher Playground Building Blaze

    5 firefighters were injured fighting a 1 story park shed now granted they did get a fire truck stuck, and 3 hydrants weren't working but that just sounds like an everyday run of the mill call in the country

    although we don't get the 126 personnel responses

    No doubt a bad day just sounded funny when I first read it
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    Arrow Sill not sure why this is an issue.

    I am not saying they did anything wrong i am just wondering from the story

    Heckscher Playground Building Blaze

    5 firefighters were injured fighting a 1 story park shed now granted they did get a fire truck stuck, and 3 hydrants weren't working but that just sounds like an everyday run of the mill call in the country

    although we don't get the 126 personnel responses

    No doubt a bad day just sounded funny when I first read it
    This wasn't a shed or outhouse. It was a stout building of masonry, lath, wire mesh, heavy mineral plaster, dementional lumber and copper lined roofing. Probably built in the early 1900s it wasn't exactly what you are thinking I'm sure. The building I think was used for parks employees and I imagine some storage of equipment. Fire was throughout the cockloft and the delay in water didn't help things. The ceilings were very difficult to pull.

    The rig was an Engine that got stuck not a Truck.

    I don't know what all the injuries were but I did hear one or two were for burns and I know one was for a member who had a large chunk of ceiling fall and hit him.

    I can't imagine that your dept is any different...you go to jobs and unfortunately some guys get injured...no? I don't think anyone is trying to stir the sh*t however I really don't understand why anyone would even question this.

    FTM-PTB
    Last edited by FFFRED; 04-14-2005 at 07:54 AM.

  10. #10
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    Well since the real events don't ever make it in print, every headline makes it sound like all of the injuries happened at one time in one place, when that's rarely the case. 126 guys over a 3-4 hour job, given the unique building construction variances in NYC, expecially the playground one, it's not surprising some people get beaned with falling ceiling parts. When you hook ceilings, these things happen, and when they're plaster and all that good stuff, they come off in chunks bigger than what people (i.e. those that have never seen old construction) would expect hooking drywall. Same reason one could end up with burns, more embers and chunks flying around during overhaul in that type of construction. When sensationlism says burns, we think lots of burned area, when it could just be a cigarette sized one from an ember. Still counts as an injury, still needs to be treated properly, but luckily they're not as bad as we first think when reading the headline.

  11. #11
    MembersZone Subscriber fieldseng2's Avatar
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    Although I don't have the stats..

    Isn't it a safe assumption that the injury/death rate is significantly lower than it was during their "War Years"?

    Brothers get injured on the job EVERYDAY. Because the FDNY is the biggest FD in the country and very popular among the fire service they get quite a bit of exposure.

    I live in the Chicago area and pretty frequently you hear on the news about one or two FFs getting hurt on a job. Most of the time it never makes the front page of this site. Is it less important? Hell no..

    Our job is inherently dangerous. We can follow all the safety rules and procedures, and some time or another Murphy's Law will prevail.

    So why would it be out of the ordinary for one of the biggest and busiest fire departments to have a number of injuries? It's horrible that a Brother gets hurt, even whe we do everything right....sometimes things just go wrong.

    fieldseng2

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    Brothers get injured on the job EVERYDAY. Because the FDNY is the biggest FD in the country and very popular among the fire service they get quite a bit of exposure.
    How many of you heard about the fireman who was injured in my hometown at a fire over the winter? None. The only reason you hear about every single injury is because the FDNY is so big and there is a lot of publicity around them. They aren't doing anything wrong/stupid/too agressive. If someone breaks a nail at a fire you can be sure those reporters will be all over it.
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  13. #13
    Forum Member Rescue101's Avatar
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    I'd hazard a guess that part of the "increase"in numbers is due to better reporting/recording of incidents and also due to increased"nosiness"from outside sources.I know that's certainly true in my area.We run about the same call volume as we have for years but because of greater citizen concerns they appear to be higher.You wanna test somethin'? Send it to FDNY. If it lasts (or if they even use it)it's good stuff. T.C.

  14. #14
    Senior Member Dalmatian90's Avatar
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    Kind of along the lines of Rescue101 & FFFred,

    I've always chalked it up to a combination of both risk, being very meticulous if you get injured it get's officially checked out & written up, and somebody feeding the press good sound bites.

    I've had a bunch of minor injuries, one moderate one, and one honestly I should've gone to formal physical therapy for that I've never bothered to report.

    Never had anything lasting or long term, nothing that affected my ability to earn a living. The worse one did mean I had a hard time lifting heavy objects with one arm for nearly 5 months! Killer if you fight fires everyday...something I could however work around.

    That said, if I was a Chief of an organization that I'm sure gets a good number of short and long term disability claims...or the Officer of a company in a busy department looking out after my men...at the hint of anything "Go get it checked out by the Doc. Now."
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    Here is a question that will get me fried...

    Why attempt an interior fire attack on what basically amounts to a storage building with no threat to life or exposures and a challenging building construction situation? Especially since there was a delay in getting water to the scene. It seems to me the risk versus benefit in this situation would have pointed to an exterior attack only.

  16. #16
    Early Adopter cozmosis's Avatar
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    Originally posted by OnWithTheShow
    Why attempt an interior fire attack on what basically amounts to a storage building with no threat to life or exposures and a challenging building construction situation? Especially since there was a delay in getting water to the scene. It seems to me the risk versus benefit in this situation would have pointed to an exterior attack only.
    I don't know if you'll get "fried" for that comment... But it scares me to think that someday, many of us might work for chiefs with the exact same mentality. We aren't just in this business to save lives. And certainly, we aren't here just to fight the easy fires.

    Our world is changing. It seems that the more stuff people buy, the less any of it matters to them. We live in a disposable era. However, that's not the case for everyone. There are still plenty of folks that value their homes, offices and other property... And they look to us to save those things when they're threatened by fire.

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    I certainly understand where you are coming from cozmosis. I value some of my stuff greatly. I do however value each and every one of us more than any material object. I just cant see how we can justify risking our lives in an effort to save someone's $60,000 plasma tv. Or in the case of the original post some landscaping equipment and an old (perhaps historical) building. This is off course assuming that it is a larger fire with immediately dangerous to life conditions.

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    So we're assuming the buildings empty?? No park employee? No squatter, no children? As I was told in probie school, and have pretty much seen since Ive been on the job "there are no vacant buildings in NYC" Ive been to buildings that most would assume are vacant, and found beds, clothes, food etc...from the people or person living in this "obviously vacant" building.

  19. #19
    Senior Member Dalmatian90's Avatar
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    Deputy Chief passed this line on to me one day, that he had been taught from his Father (a Chief)...

    You fight each fire on the assumption there's a body in there.

    Treat each fire with the same amount of respect and diligence.

    =============

    Why attempt an interior fire attack on what basically amounts to a storage building with no threat to life or exposures and a challenging building construction situation?

    Because you size-up each situation individually.

    And often times going in and putting the fire out is the simplest, quickest, and safest way to bring an incident to a conclusion. The shorter the incident, the less time it has to become more unstable and the less time Firefighters are exposed to dangers of all types -- whether it's interior ceiling coming down, or having a master stream break lose outside.

    Especially since there was a delay in getting water to the scene.

    Three failed hydrants...and a 1000' lay to get a good one. There's large segments of the fire service that would be tinkled pink to be able to establish water supply so easily. Assuming they were reverse laying which I believe is common in NYC, what is that delay, 6 or 7 minutes longer than expected? "****, hydrants dead...gotta drive to the next one..." Maybe get a second engine involved to help...yeah, it probably takes them out of their game a bit, but I couldn't see it being a "critical" factor in this situation.
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    Forum Member Dave1983's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sill not sure why this is an issue.

    Originally posted by FFFRED
    I can't imagine that your dept is any different...you go to jobs and unfortunately some guys get injured...no? I don't think anyone is trying to stir the sh*t however I really don't understand why anyone would even question this.

    FTM-PTB
    To be honest, Ive always wondered the same thing. Its not just FDNY, but a lot of the big, older, northern cities. At first I just figured it was the number of calls, but I dont think thats the issue. If you break it down by percentage, it does look like these departments have an un-equal share of injuries and LODD's. What I mean is, if for every 10 fires you have 5 FF injuries, it doesnt matter the city. Its still 5 in 10.

    So what is it? Tactics, training, equipment? Doubt it. Poor risk vs benifit decisions? Ummm, perhaps, but I realy cant say. I tend to lean toward the age of the buildings. I come to this conclusion by looking at my area. We probably have 5000 stucture fires a year. And while we have our share of injuries, we havent had a LODD since the early 70's. Are the tactics, training and equipment better here then FDNY. Hell no! BUT, we have maybe 75 100 year old buildings county wide. NYC has how many thousand?
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