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  1. #1
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    Default Opinions and/or Comments needed (training and liability issue)

    Here is a problem we are running into and I want to get opinions and comments on this.

    A mutual aid deparment decided that they want to burn a house in our district for training. But the fire marshall doesnt want to get samples taken from the house or going through the proper steps and claims that by sending a letter to where the offices are where the samples would go it will be ok (which is not the case because we went over the same thing whenever we burned a house for training).

    So heres my question lets say during this training thats going on without our premission due to the proper steps not being taken and the house just pretty much being lit off. If it were called in and we had to respond does our department have the authority to put out any fire and say that the training will not continue?


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    A fire set in your district without the approval of the authority having jurisdiction sounds like arson to me (perverse pleasure). Put the fire out and have them arrested. :-)
    That being said – we all need as much training as we can get and one person shouldn’t be able to hold that up – get help for the fire marshal, buy him or her dinner – make it worth their effort. Work together.

    Train safe but keep training

  3. #3
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    Thanks for the reply ex2561 and I see what you are saying but the fire marshall isnt exactly all there. This is the same guy who let fuel from a tractor trailer truck sit on the side of the road for a good two months after an accident in barrells.

    And with this house being not very far from a house that is occupied it would be very bad for smoke to get into this home or even worse it not be protected with an exposure line and burn up as well.

    I guess what i'm really getting at is can our chief tell the fire marshall this training is NOT going to happen without my approval. And since the proper steps are not being taken he does not approve of it happening.

  4. #4
    Forum Member RspctFrmCalgary's Avatar
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    Maybe I'm missing something here, but why don't you take the opportunity to do some Live Burn training with your mutual aid?
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    Because the department is not going to have any samples done on the house. It is pretty old so were lookin at what aspestous(sp?), lead paint all kinds of stuff that gets tested for but they are not having anything tested I also dont believe that our local community college is involved I could be wrong. So its pretty much going to be a show up light it and train without any sort of planning and we will not risk the safety of our guys.

  6. #6
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    Anyone hear of NFPA 1403? Follow those guidelines EVERY TIME. This should take care of your liability issues (such as someone besides the AHJ lighting the house without permission.) Any marshal worth his weight would know this.

    Kindly remind the marshal of these requirements. After all, Lairdsville should have taught lessons on not following procedures.

  7. #7
    MembersZone Subscriber mcaldwell's Avatar
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    I don't know the law down in NC, but up here the Fire Chief has ultimate authority regarding burning and live burn training in his district. He has the right to refuse to issue a burning permit, or shut down the burn if he feels it endangers or irritates the local community.

    The homeowners in your district pay YOUR Chief and Dept to protect them. Mutual Aid or not, if you allow the neighbour to walk into your district and endanger your taxpayers, I would suggest that you are doing them a disservice.

    I would respectfully have my Chief (or myself) tell the neighbouring dept to follow our rules when in our district, or bugger off. The courtesy would be returned in thiers.

    And training in our district is always done under our lead, and vice versa. If the Regional Fire Commissioner (or Marshal) wants to organize a joint exercise, they still begin by negotiating the activity with the home dept.
    Last edited by mcaldwell; 04-16-2005 at 01:47 AM.
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    Forum Member RspctFrmCalgary's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Firefighter2230
    Because the department is not going to have any samples done on the house. It is pretty old so were lookin at what aspestous(sp?), lead paint all kinds of stuff that gets tested for but they are not having anything tested I also dont believe that our local community college is involved I could be wrong. So its pretty much going to be a show up light it and train without any sort of planning and we will not risk the safety of our guys.
    Thanks for explaining
    September 11th - Never Forget

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    Sheri
    IACOJ CRUSTY CONVENTION CHAIR
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    RAY WAS HERE FIRST

  9. #9
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    See thats exactly what we were wondering Mcaldwell. Me and our chief thought the same thing.

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    1) They can't burn in your district without approval from the AHJ
    2) All live burns MUST follow NFPA 1403
    3) If your Chief feels their is an exposure too close then he can stop it

    If they burn its arson - have thewm arrested

  11. #11
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    Ok. I'm am still baffled by the concept of a department wanting to burn a house in another department's district ... damndest thing I have ever heard.

  12. #12
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    Why was the structure offered to the out of district FD instead of the home FD?

  13. #13
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    La you arent the only one and we would have no problem giving them the house if they were going to go through the proper channels to get it tested. Then we would be more than happy to allow them to use it so we could get some training on it to. But they are not wanting to do this and the Fire Marshall is backing them up so.

    Fitguy its more like one of their memebers found out that the owner wants it gone and from what i've gathered said that their department could burn it with no problem.

    Our chief is still trying to get it worked out with the other departments chief and is making some progress with him. So now all we need to do is deal with our Fire Marshall.

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