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    Default New Pope! White Smoke!

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    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    LOL....dont you people have anything else to do besides b*tch about our b*tching?

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    Who is it? Any formal announcement yet?
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    Give it a few minutes......no word yet, but the bells are ringing and the white smoke is belowing!
    Be for Peace, but don't be for the Enemy!
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    Learn from the mistakes of others; you won't live long enough to make them all yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
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    Pope Benedict XVI aka Joseph Ratzinger
    Be for Peace, but don't be for the Enemy!
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    Learn from the mistakes of others; you won't live long enough to make them all yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    LOL....dont you people have anything else to do besides b*tch about our b*tching?

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    No surprise. I think he was the favorite.
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    Originally posted by RESERVE172
    No surprise. I think he was the favorite.
    Yeah, but I was figuring the old phrase, "He who goes into clave Pope, comes out a Cardinal", would apply.
    Not sure how a feel about a former Nazi being the head of my church. Hopefully he will surprise me with goodness.
    Be for Peace, but don't be for the Enemy!
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    Learn from the mistakes of others; you won't live long enough to make them all yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    LOL....dont you people have anything else to do besides b*tch about our b*tching?

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    Originally posted by DennisTheMenace
    .
    Not sure how a feel about a former Nazi being the head of my church.
    I knew he was German, but a Nazi? This is the first I heard of any such thing. I think Catholics like you and I are still upset at the abuse scandal and I'm not so sure we can handle another crisis right now.
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    Originally posted by RESERVE172

    I knew he was German, but a Nazi? This is the first I heard of any such thing. I think Catholics like you and I are still upset at the abuse scandal and I'm not so sure we can handle another crisis right now.
    He was in the Hitler Youth, then in an anti-aircraft unit in the army. I can keep my faith even if some of the church leaders are less then the noble men we wish they would be. It is just tough to defent to those that don't understand faith and are looking in from the outside.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    LOL....dont you people have anything else to do besides b*tch about our b*tching?

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    Dennis, have you done a search on this guy or is this information that has already been put out there by the media? I guess it's time we read up on this man and his life.
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    Yeah, those are such strong associations...

    Dad was a police officer who lost his job and had to move 'cause he tried to reign in Brown Shirts.

    Ratzinger had to join the Hitler Youth after it was made mandatory -- from which he was released since he was in the seminary, and was later drafted into first an air-defense unit, and after his term there was done, drafted into the regular army.

    Never mind trying to defend misconceptions from the outside, you call the guy a Nazi for that?


    1927 Ratzinger is born on April 16, Holy Saturday in Marktl am Inn, and is baptized the same day. Reflecting on this experience in his memoirs, he says:
    To be the first person baptized with the new water was seen as a significant act of Providence. I have always been filled with thanksgiving for having had my life immersed in this way in the Easter Mystery . . . the more I reflect on it, the more this seems fitting for the nature of our human life: we are still waiting for Easter; we are not yet standing in the full light but walking toward it full of trust. [p. 8, Milestones]
    Ratzinger admits it is not easy to say what his 'hometown' is. As a rural policeman, his father was transferred frequently, and his family was continually on the road.

    1929 Ratzinger's family moves to Tittmoning, a small town on the Salzach River, on the Austrian border.
    1932 December: Due to his father's outspoken criticism of the Nazis, Ratzinger's family is forced to relocate to Auschau am Inn, at the foot of the Alps.
    1937 Ratzinger's father retires and his family moves to Hufschlag, outside the city of Traunstein, where Josef would spend most of his years as a teenager. Here he begins classes at the local gymnasium for classical languages, where he studies Latin and Greek.
    1939 Ratzinger enters the minor seminary in Traunstein, the initial step of his ecclesiastical career.
    1943 Ratzinger, along with the rest of his seminary class, is drafted into the Flak [anti-aircraft corps]. He is still allowed to attend classes at the Maximilians-Gymnasium in Munich three days a week.
    1944 September: Having reached military age, Ratzinger is released from the Flak and returns home, only to be drafted into labor detail under the infamous Austrian Legion ("fanatical ideologues who tyrannized us without respite").
    November: Ratzinger undergoes basic training with the German infantry. Due to illness he finds himself exempt from most of the rigors of military duty.
    1945 Spring (end of April or beginning of May): As the Allied front draws closer, Ratzinger deserts the army and heads home to Traunstein. When the Americans finally arrive at his village, they choose to establish their headquarters in the Ratzinger house. Josef is identified as a German soldier and incarcerated in a POW camp.
    June 19: Ratzinger is released and returns home to Traunstein, followed by his brother Georg in July.

    November: Ratzinger and his brother Georg re-enter the seminary.


    The Sunday Times - World



    April 17, 2005

    Papal hopeful is a former Hitler Youth
    Justin Sparks, Munich, John Follain and Christopher Morgan, Rome



    THE wartime past of a leading German contender to succeed John Paul II may return to haunt him as cardinals begin voting in the Sistine Chapel tomorrow to choose a new leader for 1 billion Catholics.
    Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, whose strong defence of Catholic orthodoxy has earned him a variety of sobriquets — including “the enforcer”, “the panzer cardinal” and “God’s rottweiler” — is expected to poll around 40 votes in the first ballot as conservatives rally behind him.



    Although far short of the requisite two-thirds majority of the 115 votes, this would almost certainly give Ratzinger, 78 yesterday, an early lead in the voting. Liberals have yet to settle on a rival candidate who could come close to his tally.

    Unknown to many members of the church, however, Ratzinger’s past includes brief membership of the Hitler Youth movement and wartime service with a German army anti- aircraft unit.

    Although there is no suggestion that he was involved in any atrocities, his service may be contrasted by opponents with the attitude of John Paul II, who took part in anti-Nazi theatre performances in his native Poland and in 1986 became the first pope to visit Rome’s synagogue.

    “John Paul was hugely appreciated for what he did for and with the Jewish people,” said Lord Janner, head of the Holocaust Education Trust, who is due to attend ceremonies today to mark the 60th anniversary of the liberation of the Bergen-Belsen concentration camp.

    “If they were to appoint someone who was on the other side in the war, he would start at a disadvantage, although it wouldn’t mean in the long run he wouldn’t be equally understanding of the concerns of the Jewish world.”

    The son of a rural Bavarian police officer, Ratzinger was six when Hitler came to power in 1933. His father, also called Joseph, was an anti-Nazi whose attempts to rein in Hitler’s Brown Shirts forced the family to move home several times.

    In 1937 Ratzinger’s father retired and the family moved to Traunstein, a staunchly Catholic town in Bavaria close to the Führer’s mountain retreat in Berchtesgaden. He joined the Hitler Youth aged 14, shortly after membership was made compulsory in 1941.

    He quickly won a dispensation on account of his training at a seminary. “Ratzinger was only briefly a member of the Hitler Youth and not an enthusiastic one,” concluded John Allen, his biographer.

    Two years later Ratzinger was enrolled in an anti-aircraft unit that protected a BMW factory making aircraft engines. The workforce included slaves from Dachau concentration camp.

    Ratzinger has insisted he never took part in combat or fired a shot — adding that his gun was not even loaded — because of a badly infected finger. He was sent to Hungary, where he set up tank traps and saw Jews being herded to death camps. He deserted in April 1944 and spent a few weeks in a prisoner of war camp.

    He has since said that although he was opposed to the Nazi regime, any open resistance would have been futile — comments echoed this weekend by his elder brother Georg, a retired priest ordained along with the cardinal in 1951.

    “Resistance was truly impossible,” Georg Ratzinger said. “Before we were conscripted, one of our teachers said we should fight and become heroic Nazis and another told us not to worry as only one soldier in a thousand was killed. But neither of us ever used a rifle against the enemy.”

    Some locals in Traunstein, like Elizabeth Lohner, 84, whose brother-in-law was sent to Dachau as a conscientious objector, dismiss such suggestions. “It was possible to resist, and those people set an example for others,” she said. “The Ratzingers were young and had made a different choice.”

    In 1937 another family a few hundred yards away in Traunstein hid Hans Braxenthaler, a local resistance fighter. SS troops repeatedly searched homes in the area looking for the fugitive and his fellow conspirators.
    “When he was betrayed and the Nazis came for him, Braxenthaler shot himself because he knew he couldn’t escape,” said Frieda Meyer, 82, Ratzinger’s neighbour and childhood friend. “Even though they had tortured him in Dachau concentration camp he refused to give up his resistance efforts.”



    Despite question marks over Ratzinger’s wartime conduct, the main obstacle to his prospects in the conclave — the assembly of cardinals to elect the new pope — is the conservative stance he has adopted as guardian of Catholic orthodoxy since John Paul named him to head the congregation for the doctrine of the faith in 1981.

    His condemnations are legion — of women priests, married priests, dissident theologians and homosexuals, whom he has declared to be suffering from an “objective disorder”.

    He upset many Jews with a statement in 1987 that Jewish history and scripture reach fulfilment only in Christ — a position denounced by critics as “theological anti-semitism”. He made more enemies among other religions in 2000, when he signed a document, Dominus Jesus, in which he argued: “Only in the Catholic church is there eternal salvation”.

    Some of his staunchest critics are in Germany. A recent poll in Der Spiegel, the news magazine, showed opponents of a Ratzinger papacy outnumbered supporters by 36% to 29%.

    As one western cardinal who was in two minds about him put it: “He would probably be a great pope, but I have no idea how I would explain his election back home.”

    One liberal theologian,when asked what he thought of a Ratzinger papacy, was more direct: “It fills me with horror.”





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    Originally posted by DennisTheMenace
    He was in the Hitler Youth, then in an anti-aircraft unit in the army. I can keep my faith even if some of the church leaders are less then the noble men we wish they would be.
    He was drafted as an assistant to a Nazi anti-aircraft unit, and also sent to the Austrian-Hungarian border to construct tank barriers. He deserted the Germany army in May 1945. U.S. soldiers took him prisoner and held him in a POW camp for several weeks. Upon his release, he re-entered the seminary.

    Just because he was forced to serve in the German army during WWII doesn't make him a Nazi.
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    Dalmation, he was/is Catholic, the Nazi's did not really want "his kind" in the Hitler Youth, he would not have been forced into it by anything other then peer pressure. Not sure if that is the kind of person that I like having as Pope(not that I have a say in the matter). I will cut the guy a degree of a break, but as the child of a Holocaust survivor I will have to keep an eye on the situation.

    And IACOJRev, EVERYONE diserted in May of 1945, it does not reflect any sort of rejection of Hitler, it reflects the fact that the Red Army was close and was not kind to the Germans they came across.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
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    Originally posted by DennisTheMenace
    ...he would not have been forced into it by anything other then peer pressure. Not sure if that is the kind of person that I like having as Pope...
    You're saying that because this man may have folded under peer pressure as a young teenager disqualifies him from serving 60 years later?

    Pardon me, sir, but your ignorance is showing.
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    Originally posted by IACOJRev


    You're saying that because this man may have folded under peer pressure as a young teenager disqualifies him from serving 60 years later?

    Pardon me, sir, but your ignorance is showing.
    By age sixteen, a man should have developed much of his life morals, from there you shapen and hone them. We speak as if those that came before us were always more mature at a younger age, well this guy came well before me. For the Pope I would like a man that stands the test of their entire life, does not mean i can get it, does not mean I reject him as Pope, just stating my desire and wish that I do not feel is to far of a reach for such a position.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
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    Originally posted by DennisTheMenace
    By age sixteen, a man should have developed much of his life morals, from there you shapen and hone them. We speak as if those that came before us were always more mature at a younger age, well this guy came well before me. For the Pope I would like a man that stands the test of their entire life, does not mean i can get it, does not mean I reject him as Pope, just stating my desire and wish that I do not feel is to far of a reach for such a position.
    If that is the case, the following people were also unqualified to be leaders...

    - Moses. He was a murderer AND he worked for the Egypians who kept the Israelites in captivity for 400 years. (Rumor has it that he may have been a member of Pharoh's Youth, but is still unconfirmed)

    - King David. Murderer and Adulter.

    - The Apostle Paul. Murderer and Convict.

    just to name a few...
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    Originally posted by IACOJRev


    If that is the case, the following people were also unqualified to be leaders...

    - Moses. He was a murderer AND he worked for the Egypians who kept the Israelites in captivity for 400 years.

    - King David. Murderer and Adulter.

    - The Apostle Paul. Murderer and Convict.

    just to name a few...
    None stepped into the shoes of St. Peter who filled in for the shoes of Jesus.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
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    Originally posted by DennisTheMenace
    None stepped into the shoes of St. Peter who filled in for the shoes of Jesus.
    I don't ever recall Peter being asked to "fill in" while Jesus stepped out.

    Oh, and who was the guy that LIED and DENIED EVEN KNOWING JESUS... not once... not twice... but THREE TIMES because of the peer pressure?!

    C'mon, Dennis... help me out here... who was that man?

    OH YEAH... it was PETER!
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    Originally posted by IACOJRev


    I don't ever recall Peter being asked to "fill in" while Jesus stepped out.

    Oh, and who was the guy that LIED and DENIED EVEN KNOWING JESUS... not once... not twice... but THREE TIMES because of the peer pressure?!

    C'mon, Dennis... help me out here... who was that man?

    OH YEAH... it was PETER!
    If the new Pope had but the one time(or thre time in a day) strike it could be dismissed. Peter did not join the Romans, he faultered for a moment or three. Like I said, I won't let Pope Benedict XVI's election hurt my faith, i just think there might have been better choices. I could use the line that some will, and say that the Cardinals followed God's will in the election, but I do not feel that that line of reasoning has anything to do with faith in the Lord, only faith in an institution. We will see how this plays out. I wish our new Pope the best and the same for the Church.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    LOL....dont you people have anything else to do besides b*tch about our b*tching?

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    Originally posted by DennisTheMenace
    ...I won't let Pope Benedict XVI's election hurt my faith...

    ...We will see how this plays out. I wish our new Pope the best and the same for the Church.
    Amen!
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    It can be argued the Apostle Paul killed more Christians than Hitler killed jews. "Saul why do you persecute me" Saul REPENTED and asked for FORGIVENESS. God Forgave him and gave him the mission of spreading the WORD to the gentiles. He went on to be a great Apostle of the Lord Jesus Christ. We all have things in our past that we are not proud of. Paul killed Christians. Anyway, we all sin. Forgiveness, Is the Christian thing to do. Hopefully, this Pope is led by God and is as successful as the last.

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    Hitler Youth wasn't a club you wanted people to join because they shared similiar backgrounds and values. Hitler Youth was a group they first used peer pressure, and finally made mandatory, to join so they could indoctrinate a common value system.

    One of several similiar googles on Hitler Youth:
    " von Schirach took up the Führer's lead. In a speech 3 weeks later he declared that the Party was hoping to educate the new generation "in the cult of race and nation" and would, despite the Con Concordant with the Vatican succeed in disassociating Catholic youth from the Catholic youth organizations"
    http://histclo.hispeed.com/youth/you...el/hya-rel.htm
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    Angry

    Not real happy over what the church has as a pope. I never thought that I would like to see a german and one of hitlers youth in the high post of the church. Plus this guy is 78 years old which means that he will loose all voting when he hits 80!

    We needed a younger pope to fill John Paul's shoes.








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    Plus this guy is 78 years old which means that he will loose all voting when he hits 80!

    WHAT FREAKING VOTING!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

    He's Pope.

    The only thing turning 80 means...is you can't vote for the next Pope.

    Pretty much by definition, he'll be dead at that point.

    For criminies sakes folks, if you're going to have criticism, have criticism that makes some reasonable sense!
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    Originally posted by Dalmatian90
    Plus this guy is 78 years old which means that he will loose all voting when he hits 80!

    WHAT FREAKING VOTING!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

    He's Pope.

    The only thing turning 80 means...is you can't vote for the next Pope.

    Pretty much by definition, he'll be dead at that point.

    For criminies sakes folks, if you're going to have criticism, have criticism that makes some reasonable sense!
    Actually it is kind of a plus, his age will mean it will be a relatively short reign.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
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    Default Along that line

    How long will this guy live?...he is 78 ...how much influence will he have ?
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