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  1. #21
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    Default Njsp

    I attended a meeting 2 years ago with the brass on the Parkway and Turnpike. They told all of us in attendance that if we had a problem with one of their troopers, that we were to tell that trooper that we wanted a Sergeant or higher to be dispatched to the scene.
    The lower level troopers hate when you do that and when faced with either being cooperative or have their boss be summoned to the call (you requested them, the trooper must relay it or he's in violation of SP policy), they tone down the attitude and become extremely helpful.


  2. #22
    Disillusioned Subscriber Steamer's Avatar
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    Default

    There was a case in Ohio in the Dayton/Springfield area where a Firefighter was either forced to move or prevented from moving a truck when the Sheriff's Deputy held a gun to his head. He climbed on the running board, held onto the mirror with one hand, and stuck a gun to the driver's head.

    The now "former Deputy" was later found to be pretty much a whack job. They also found a ton of undelivered subpoenas in his cruiser that he had shown as delivered. That litle detail was pursued via criminal charges along with the pesky gun thing, but I never heard the results.

    There was also a case near Beavercreek in the Dayton area where a fire officer was placed in handcuffs and arrested by a Highway Patrol Trooper. The judge essentially threw out the case and counceled them to learn to play together. I don't know of any other incidents this severe around Ohio, but they were certainly enough to last awhile.

    On the bright side, Ohio is developing a program called Quick Clear that put just about every agency that has a vested interested in highway operations together to "preplan" these incidents. It will be interesting to see how it all pans out over time.
    Last edited by Steamer; 09-28-2006 at 12:08 PM.
    Steve Gallagher
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  3. #23
    Forum Member FWDbuff's Avatar
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    Bump, in the name of current events!
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

  4. #24
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    Default Talk to each other people!

    That "Quick Clear" link should be made compulsory reading for everyone in emergency services working on roadways. Just as I have asked people in another thread to see the NJSP point of view in other circumstances this one it seems reasonably clear the trooper is in the wrong.

    Police don't direct Firefighting operations. They outline to the Officer in Charge any operating limitations, or preferences or priorities and the Fire Service OIC has a duty to try to accomodate these. Likewise if the Fire Officer can't work within the Police limitations safely they need to talk and achieve a solution that works for both of them. If this solution can't be found the Fire Officer needs to remove Firefighters from danger, even if it means moving off the roadway completely until things change. No yelling, no guns drawn, just a considered and deliberate application of sound management principles.

    The best time to resolve issues like this is with a good mutually agreed SOP worked out beforehand and with regular meetings to review the plan and keep the informal contact going.
    With mutual goodwil any plan will work well, and without it any plan is doomed to failure.
    Jim Maclean. IACOJ NZ branch

  5. #25
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    Default

    Here is the statue for NJ.....The catch in the statue is in the last sentence.....
    40A:14-54.1. Authority at scene of fire of fire official in charge of supervision or direction of operations
    The chief or other superior officer of any municipal paid or part-paid fire department or volunteer fire company, or a State fire warden, who
    is charged with the duty of supervising or directing operations at the scene of any fire shall be the sole authority within fire lines established by
    said fire chief or other superior fire officer, or State fire warden, at the scene of such fire with respect to all firefighting operations relating to
    the protection of lives and property endangered by such fire, and within said fire lines such authority shall supersede that of any municipal police
    authority. The authority hereby invested in the chief or other superior officer, or State fire warden, shall terminate at such time as he shall declare
    the fire out. Nothing in this act shall affect the powers possessed by the Governor under the various emergency acts nor the powers possessed
    by any State agency to protect the public health, welfare and safety.

    L.1981, c. 435, s. 1, eff. Jan. 9, 1982.

  6. #26

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    Default

    ...........
    Last edited by kooldude73; 02-24-2008 at 02:24 AM.

  7. #27
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    Default

    ___________________
    Last edited by 5alarmcooker; 03-17-2008 at 06:05 PM.

  8. #28
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    Smile New Jersey State Police !

    We cover the Garden State Pky exit 127 area and also Route 9 & Rt 440, most of the troopers are pretty good to work with. sometimes we will have a wrong message sent to us on the location of a car fire or MVA from there dispatcher ! Maybe they can get " GPS "units for there cars .

  9. #29
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    Default NJSP trump card

    there is a clause in the NJ laws that basically the NJSP badge trumps all... if they are on the scene of an emergency in the state of NJ, technically they are ultimately in charge.... that means technically ANY emergency scene. the other laws referred to in this forum deal with mostly local/county pd's. in which it is basically this. if there is a patient involved, then EMS is in charge. if there is no patient, but there is fire, then FIRE Dept is in charge, if there is no fire & no patient, then the scene reverts back to the PD. like i said, the only exception to this is the NJSP badge. they can pull that card and take over any emergency scene anywhere in the state of NJ from ANYONE.

  10. #30

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    Default Eop

    Another item to remember is your emergency management plan. If you have taken the time to have the following in your plan you will have SLIGHTLY more to stand on.

    1.Incident type
    2. Department that respond
    a.conditions of the incident will dictate who will be in charge.

    Remember the State Police approve your plan!

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by ffgumby04 View Post
    there is a clause in the NJ laws that basically the NJSP badge trumps all... if they are on the scene of an emergency in the state of NJ, technically they are ultimately in charge.... that means technically ANY emergency scene. the other laws referred to in this forum deal with mostly local/county pd's. in which it is basically this. if there is a patient involved, then EMS is in charge. if there is no patient, but there is fire, then FIRE Dept is in charge, if there is no fire & no patient, then the scene reverts back to the PD. like i said, the only exception to this is the NJSP badge. they can pull that card and take over any emergency scene anywhere in the state of NJ from ANYONE.
    I'd like to see the citation for such a law. Although there is much talk that this is the truth, I never ran across that particular statute while completing law school, or passing the bar exam, or being admitted to the practice of law in NJ. Not that it COULDN'T exist, mind you, but I never saw anything remotely similar to what is described.

    Even if the legislature granted such authority, it would take large cojones and a small brain to assume authority over things outside of your expertise. I DID learn a bit about civil liability, and such actions would make for a great case. "I didn't know a thing about what needed to be done, your honor, but I have this nifty triangular badge and a cool hat, so therefore I can be in charge if I want to."

    Fortunately, most of the troopers I met during my 8 years as a NJ MICP (#828) were far smarter than that - in fact, most were pretty darn good to work with.

    Skip

  12. #32
    makes good girls go bad BLSboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkipKirkwood View Post
    Fortunately, most of the troopers I met during my 8 years as a NJ MICP (#828) were far smarter than that - in fact, most were pretty darn good to work with.

    Skip
    828?!
    Damn Skip, you be a Crusty ol' Medic!
    Last I heard they are in the low to mid 3000s.
    I should know for myself verrrrry soon.
    AJ, MICP, FireMedic
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    This message has been made longer, in part from a grant from the You Are a Freaking Moron Foundation.

  13. #33
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    Default

    http://firefighterclosecalls.com/fullstory.php?76989

    http://www.1stresponder.com/webpages...7-2feb62457466

    Happened not too far from me. This what happens when you want to open the road more then protect the people working.

  14. #34
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    Red face highway safety standards

    In the state of New Jersey, the State police are currently putting together a standard for highway operations, it is currently being reviewed by the attorney general's office to make sure it's all good and legal. This emergency operating standard will apply for all police, fire, ems, DOT, and private contractor operating on the scene of an emergency. and will apply only to multi-lane highway's at this time. terminology, as well as vehicle placement, will be the same all over the state, based on a combination of anticipated duration on scene, as well as type of action needed to take place. there will be allowances for work zones, and safe zones, as well as buffer zones, it's not rocket science, but the brief look at the proposal i saw looked like it will be to the benefit of all. hopefully we can avoid any further close calls, on NJ Highways. I know many of the Hope FF's who were involved in this close call. NJSP anticipates a spring of 2009 adoption of these standards. On a national level we need to start a campaign to inform the publicof our need and desire for them to slow down and drive with caution, and most of all pay attention.

  15. #35
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    Simple: report him for professional misconduct.
    Dave Bieniek

    FF/EMT
    Valley Grove Vol. Fire Department

    EMT
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    Professional in either role.

  16. #36
    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wyrepullr View Post
    In the state of New Jersey, the State police are currently putting together a standard for highway operations, it is currently being reviewed by the attorney general's office to make sure it's all good and legal. This emergency operating standard will apply for all police, fire, ems, DOT, and private contractor operating on the scene of an emergency. and will apply only to multi-lane highway's at this time. terminology, as well as vehicle placement, will be the same all over the state, based on a combination of anticipated duration on scene, as well as type of action needed to take place. there will be allowances for work zones, and safe zones, as well as buffer zones, it's not rocket science, but the brief look at the proposal i saw looked like it will be to the benefit of all. hopefully we can avoid any further close calls, on NJ Highways. I know many of the Hope FF's who were involved in this close call. NJSP anticipates a spring of 2009 adoption of these standards. On a national level we need to start a campaign to inform the publicof our need and desire for them to slow down and drive with caution, and most of all pay attention.

    Any updates on this? I had seen the draft as well and agreed with most of it. Was wondering if it has gone any further...
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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