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  1. #1
    Permanently Removed AsstEngineer292's Avatar
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    Exclamation Going for new apparatus READ ASAP

    We recently went to the FEMA Grant workshop about the grants to get some new information on what's the chance of companies getting what.

    Anyway, if your company has ANY and (Directly from the grant guy)"I mean ANY kind of apparatus with SQUARE headlights, you will NOT be awarded for another apparatus" "You will 90% most likely be turned down". I myself think this is a idiotic idea but I'm guessing they don't want to give new apparatus to companies with apparatus 1990-present or just recently got one in the last grants or because it wouldn't be fair to the other companies who are in dire need for a new apparatus.

    This information came directly from a grant guy, forgot his name but I'll find out more if anyone replies with some questions.

    Just posting my view from what I've been told.


    GOOD LUCK TO ALL AND BE SAFE
    Last edited by AsstEngineer292; 04-20-2005 at 11:30 AM.


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    An odd way to put it, but they're basically not going to replace apparatus that is NFPA 1901 compliant for the previous edition. Current is 2003, but I think 1991 was the one before. Anywho...

    That's been pretty much a known item, there are too many out there with 20+ year old trucks that are most likely no longer compliant with the NFPA 1901 when they were built, let alone being far from compliant with the last 2 editions. Unless it's a new venture (1st aerial, 1st brush unit, tanker, etc) really not much of a chance of award anyway. Only 4 in 10 vehicle apps make it to peer review, only 1 of those 4 is awarded. 'Tis the nature of this game of numbers.

  3. #3
    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
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    Since the application period is over....why would there still be workshops?
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Day late and a dollar short?

    Near as I can tell there haven't been any in April at all. I didn't check all of the region listings, but I'm pretty sure they called all of the people back to DC once the app period was over.

    292 - was this someone on Helpdesk? Or a regional person with DHS?

    Not that it really matters, as I said above, they're pretty much on the nose with the statement.

  5. #5
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    This may sound really odd, but our '79 mini pumper that we're wanting to replace has square headlights. I can swear to it. So what's the deal, Brian?

  6. #6
    Permanently Removed AsstEngineer292's Avatar
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    Originally posted by BC79er
    Day late and a dollar short?

    Near as I can tell there haven't been any in April at all. I didn't check all of the region listings, but I'm pretty sure they called all of the people back to DC once the app period was over.

    292 - was this someone on Helpdesk? Or a regional person with DHS?

    Not that it really matters, as I said above, they're pretty much on the nose with the statement.
    This was in Feburary I believe sprry I didn't mention that before,
    This was the grant workshop instructor and he does parts of the awarding system.

    Now we had a massive drill last night and the grnat came up and my chief told me he was threatened that we wouldn't get another grant,since we got 2002,2003&2004 and the guy said "Give someone else a chance". Now we said that in 2001 when they denied us for the new truck we got last year. But from what my cheif told me, the square headlight deal is a factor which holds you back for a new apparatus grant.

  7. #7
    Permanently Removed AsstEngineer292's Avatar
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    Originally posted by tk1918
    This may sound really odd, but our '79 mini pumper that we're wanting to replace has square headlights. I can swear to it. So what's the deal, Brian?

    Was it built with square headlights? Or is the Unit a square and the light itself a sphere?

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    Talking I wish our rig had electric headlights.

    I wish our rig was new enough to have electric headlights, we have to light the candles before we go out.

    Just kidding,
    We were turned down twice for a replacement pumper. Our first out is a 1976 750gpm w/ 350 gallon tank. We purchased it used 10 years ago, we had saved enough money to get a decent match on the grant, to purchase an mid -1990 model but had to use it to buy another used piece of equipment an 1984 Grumman when 76 truck took its last breath.

    I cant understand how other departments around us who can afford to buy a new truck use these funds to replace a 10 year old truck. This year we gave up and went for PPE.

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    Angry Not true....

    I can say with out a doubt that this is absoloutly not true. I know of at least 6 engines that have been replaced with FEMA grants that had square headlights. The peer review people have not one clue wether the truck you are replacing has square headlights or not. This is the kind of info that gets out and people do not write grants because of them.

  10. #10
    Permanently Removed AsstEngineer292's Avatar
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    When you apply for a new engine, your supposed to list your current list of apparatus,year,etc. They usually check it out to see whats what but like I said, this is what the guy told my chief,me, my father and our captain

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    Headlight styles will not always match up to year of vehicle... and that's what they're concerned about - age of vehicles in the fleet. Obviously if you have a fleet of 2005 Pierce's, you will not be competitive for a new vehicle.

    This is just one part of an overall view of your agency.
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  12. #12
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    Default Confirmed

    I just spoke to a guy I know that has done peer review every year for FEMA and he confirmed this is not true. He said there are many FEMA people doing workshops out there that have never done a grant and really are giving alot of misinformation.

    I agree with the post above it has to do with the age of your fleet. Not the headlights.

  13. #13
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    Default 2005 AFG and SAFER Program

    The AFG awards will probably start in late June or early July. The goal is having all grantees selected and in process before Sept 30th.

    SAFER guidance has been around the horn and is currently in upper management's hands. With any luck it should be posted during the second week of May.

    Square headlights give me a break. We do not even worry about those details nor do we see them when reviewing applications!!! NFPA 1901 or 1906 compliant is the requirement.
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    He said there are many FEMA people doing workshops out there that have never done a grant and really are giving alot of misinformation.
    I second that, I had a department that's near another I worked with tell me that they were told by Helpdesk not to apply for a brush truck on a 1 ton chassis because they are going to only award full blown Wildland trucks. Quite wrong, but as someone else said, it kept them from even applying.

    Square headlights give me a break. We do not even worry about those details nor do we see them when reviewing applications!!! NFPA 1901 or 1906 compliant is the requirement.
    That's for the truck being applied for, as I said, older trucks used round headlights, so anything 15 years or newer has a slim chance of being replaced through an award. Correct idea, won't see too many newer than 20 years being replaced unless possibly home built and non-NFPA compliant 1901-1991. But poor way of communicating the slim chance. Not impossible mind you, slim.

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    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
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    The goal is having all grantees selected and in process before Sept 30th.
    So then ALL of the Dear John's should be out by end of October?
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  16. #16
    MembersZone Subscriber N2DFire's Avatar
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    Originally posted by BC79er
    An odd way to put it, but they're basically not going to replace apparatus that is NFPA 1901 compliant for the previous edition. Current is 2003, but I think 1991 was the one before. Anywho...
    Slightly off topic but FYI NFPA Standards are reviewed on a 5 year rotating basis so if 1901-2003 is the current then the next previous would be 1901-1998


    Back on topic - We are currently developing our Spec's & grant proposal for Grant Cycle 2006.

    If everything on our end goes as planned, then we will be requesting a CAFS Retrofit for an existing truck, a new 2500 Gal Tanker, and a Quint (prob. 75' due to OAL & the geography of our district)
    Last edited by N2DFire; 04-22-2005 at 10:43 AM.
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  17. #17
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    Can't find any mention anywhere of a 1998 edition. Annex D mentions 1991 & 2001, no 1998.

    On a related note 2008 is going to bring a whole lot of changes. Well, 2007 since that's when the new EPA Regulations take effect.

  18. #18
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    The square or rectangular headlights thing has to be a rumor. We have a 1984 pumper that had the cab refurbed and it has retangular lights on it,...but it is a 1984...... Our 1974 Aerial has had the head lights replaced and they are rectangular.

    As BC79er says...too many old apparatus out there. We are going for a quint again this year. Based on ANNEX D of 1901 ours can not comply. Additionally, testing companies will not test it due to its age. They say even it they test it, they will not certify it due to liability related to age.
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  19. #19
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    Apparatus is a tough nut to crack. Only 4 out of 10 vehicle apps make it past the computer. Only 1 of the 4 is awarded.

    I've only seen one department get 2 vehicles, and the two together was barely over $100K. 2001 and 2002 I believe. So the multiple award argument doesn't hold as much water because you're not "losing" to other departments that have won multiple times, you're not scoring as high as the others applying in that category. Depending on how far you make it past the computer is the tell for what needs to be done next time around.

    And with 2 pumpers, 2 tankers, 3 of which are from the 1990s, you're light years ahead of some of the folks I worked with this year. Competition for trucks is fierce. It is a game of fractions.

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